FDX vs. UPS

wkmac

Well-Known Member
April 15, 2005 UPS was 54.75 per share, FDX was 50.00. Todays price difference is 30 bucks and one companies share has even lost value. My friend dysfunctional manager (on the 2727 thread) says its the unions fault, (pilot and maintenance) but I think it could be something else. All stock, bonds, mutual funds, gold, s&p, etc etc share prices has risen since April, why does UPS/OPL shares lag? What group of people have really caused UPS stock to be valued at Nov 1999 prices?

Very old debate. Why is FedEx always more valuable than UPS?

FDX

Share Statistics
Shares Outstanding: 312.52M

UPS

Share Statistics
S
hares Outstanding: 992.80M

3 times more shares just takes a lot more weight to push it. Do a 1 for 3 reverse split to equal UPS now having 300m plus shares and you're looking at a $160 per share general price range. I like the Warren Buffet thinking when it comes to stock splits.
 

randomUPSISer

Well-Known Member
By the way, it is also supposed to stop with all management as well.

I can tell you that as a management person, I did NOT do enough to get sales leads. Did you? That's what the management committee asked us to do. They asked us to grow the business and get leads.

I'm sorry, "I thought we had very well paid sales people to do this job". That seems to be the common feeling among the MIP participants in my location. (and there are hundreds of them) We arent asking the package drivers to manage their centers, or the sales guys to do IT. Why should we ask the management guys to do sales?

That being said, I didn't submit a lead. Being an IT guy, I simply dont have any good leads to give. Some people I work around did, and none of their contacts were EVER CALLED. Some of the leads were a couple hounded boxes a day. Seems to me, that even if I had submitted a lead the sales guys (who apparently were already dropping the ball since they are asking us to do their job for them) dropped the ball. Logically, whose fault does this point to?

By the way, contrary to opinions here service is at an all time high. UPS measures the service of every package and our internal measurement is on end to end service. Its been called the "no excuses" measurement.

If you look at the MIP elements, service is the only one we hit.

So, while it is the repsonsibility of the management committee to run the company, management needs to do our job as well.

P-Man

Then why is UPS losing volume still? When the service is more expensive, and of similar quality customers leave. If the service is similar price, and less quality, customers leave. Are customers leaving, or not? UPS seems to say we are losing customers. That's the "bottom line", regardless of what our internal studies tell us. It's entirely possible the internal studies are wrong. It's also possible that our internal studies are measuring "service improvement", not "service compared to our competitors".

I bet lots of internal studies at GM said the company was doing great right up until the bankruptcy :peaceful:
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Then why is UPS losing volume still? When the service is more expensive, and of similar quality customers leave. If the service is similar price, and less quality, customers leave. Are customers leaving, or not? UPS seems to say we are losing customers. That's the "bottom line", regardless of what our internal studies tell us. It's entirely possible the internal studies are wrong. It's also possible that our internal studies are measuring "service improvement", not "service compared to our competitors".

I bet lots of internal studies at GM said the company was doing great right up until the bankruptcy :peaceful:

Our SEAS reports check absolute service. Since you're an IT guy you can probably verify that easily.

Our GSR's are SIGNIFICANTLY down over the last three years. That is also a measure of absolute service.

Finally, many customer that downgraded service due to cost have stayed with ground because the service was so good.

We are not losing customers due to service (generally). Most leave for a better price. There is certainly some loss due to our ease of use and package handling (which is improving).

BTW, even an IT guy can get a sales lead. I got three producing leads this year and it had nothing to do with my job. It was just due to places I go for personal commerce.

P-Man
 
D

Dis-organized Labor

Guest
Why do we waste our time, trying to figure this out. The OP stated on another thread that all we have to do is lay off some of the "underperforming" people in Airline management (there are less than 700) just like they do "in the Union" (according to him) and then our stock will jump $30. and be on par with FDX.
How come those dopes in ATL haven't figured that out. Oh, they don't have the "talent" we do in the Airline Mechanic ranks.


HA HA HA HA HHAAAA HAAAAAAAAAA HHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
 

randomUPSISer

Well-Known Member
Our GSR's are SIGNIFICANTLY down over the last three years. That is also a measure of absolute service.

Sounds relative to our previous years performance? What are the "GSR's" (I assume they have a different name) like at FedEx for example? How do we compare? Being down on those is good I agree. But it doesn't make a bit of difference if we are still higher than the competition.

Finally, many customer that downgraded service due to cost have stayed with ground because the service was so good.

Evidently not enough have compared to our goals. Perhaps the goals are unrealistic?

We are not losing customers due to service (generally). Most leave for a better price.

Agreed. The market seems to be going towards "lowest price", not "best service". That's a gigantic problem for us because we are NOT the low cost provider, nor can we be with our cost structure. All the cost cutting in the world wont make up for what we pay our drivers, mechanics, and (often times) extra layers of useless middle management.

There is certainly some loss due to our ease of use and package handling (which is improving).

Agreed. UPS doesnt have the best reputation for our box handling. Having been out in the operation a time of two, I can attest to this.

If we are to talk customer complaints, I know the real world perception of UPS is we SUCK to deal with if there is a problem with your package. Especially if we break the contents because we wont pay it. FedEx on the other hand has a perception of paying with ease if the contents get broke. Combine that with our perceived package handling problems and that's bad news. Are those real issues? I don't know, perhaps you do. In the end it doesn't matter because the perception from the public affects us either way. Real or not only decides how we fix the problem. (marketing vs operational)

BTW, even an IT guy can get a sales lead. I got three producing leads this year and it had nothing to do with my job. It was just due to places I go for personal commerce.

If the "IT guy" sitting near me submits a sales lead with potential 100 packages a day, and his contact doesn't get called back, what kind of motivation does that provide the rest of us who do not have 100+ package sales leads to turn in?

Speaking of which, where is the incentive at all? The incentives they are offering us are pretty small for anything but a large sized account. Meanwhile, do you know what kind of money a salesman at UPS brings in? If its anything like "market" for a salesman, its pretty mediocre base pay, and really good if you're good. (Incentive based)

Seems to me we are being asked to pad the sales forces pockets while being given little to nothing besides a "you helped the company" pat on the back. That might have been fine and good back when I felt like a partner. Now a days, I'm not sure I care if UPS sinks or swims. I can get a job right down the street making what I make with similar benefits and job security.

Maybe, just maybe, someone in upper management should realize that if you are asking all of your employees to be salesman, then your sales force has failed. Maybe its time to take a look at our sales forces incentives to make sure they line up with what we want, and/or hire more salesman. Asking us to do it for free ain't cutting it. (see: MIP elements failure on growth)
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
ISer:

I don't know what else to say...

By all measures, our air service is on par with FedEx. Within .1% from survey to survey.

Our ground service is significantly better.

Our internal measures, GSR Stats, External surveys, and customers tell us this.

Customers are not leaving due to service.

As far as sales leads go... I can't comment on the experience of the person sitting next to you. I got three producing sales leads this year and could have done more.

This has nothing to do with a personal incentive. We have 400,000 people that can help grow the business. Seems like the right thing to me.

If you work out of NJ, its not inappropriate to call the NorthEast Region BD manager and complain about not following up on a lead. When customers have told me about problems, I've called the district / region office many times to get resolution.

P-Man
 

randomUPSISer

Well-Known Member
ISer:
This has nothing to do with a personal incentive. We have 400,000 people that can help grow the business. Seems like the right thing to me.

Honestly, if I had one I'd turn it in just because I work at the company. It's not like I am holding back. It would be convenient, so heck why not? Now, if the incentives were high enough, I'd get my butt out there and FIND some. That's the difference I see, and the difference in getting some leads here and there, and getting tons and tons of leads.

I sincerily hope our service IS better than fedex at every level. I work towards supporting that stuff daily so it would be nice to know it is. I do take some pride in my job after all! I'm just stating the perception I hear from random people as well as on multiple message boards I frequent. Whether or not its grounded in reality doesn't matter because such things do affect our "brand" and peoples decisions to get our service.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
What happened to the DHL 10 billion dollar contract?

It fizzled.

The original announcement in 2008 required the two sided finishing the contract details. Those details could never be equitably worked out.

In April 2009, the contract talks ended.

DHL's volume dropped from 1.2M pieces per day to 100k. I'm guessing that is a major reason for the ending of the talks.

P-Man
 

airbusfxr

Well-Known Member
FDX up over 2 bucks today, their peak is going great after they took over the DHL customers. Why did UPS not want those customers?
 

Leftinbuilding

Well-Known Member
FDX up over 2 bucks today, their peak is going great after they took over the DHL customers. Why did UPS not want those customers?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's your source? My tracker says FedEx closed down $.41. UPS closed flat.
 

clueless

Well-Known Member
FDX up over 2 bucks today, their peak is going great after they took over the DHL customers. Why did UPS not want those customers?
Here is the info from the company's SEC filing:

FedEx Corp. Second Quarter Earnings to Exceed Guidance

Better-Than-Expected Growth in FedEx International Priority
and FedEx Ground Volumes Benefit Results

MEMPHIS, Tenn. December 7, 2009... FedEx Corporation (NYSE: FDX) today announced that it expects to report earnings of $1.10 per diluted share for the second quarter ended November 30, down 30% from $1.58 per diluted share a year ago. The company’s previous guidance for the quarter was $0.65 to $0.95 per diluted share.

“FedEx will exceed previous earnings guidance in the second quarter primarily due to better-than-expected growth in FedEx International Priority® and FedEx Ground volumes, coupled with the benefits of our continuing cost control programs,” said Alan B. Graf Jr., FedEx Corp. executive vice president and chief financial officer. “Year-over-year growth in our U.S. overnight express and FedEx International Priority services increased each month during the quarter, aided by inventory restocking and our successful sales efforts. Demand for our international services has improved significantly since the first quarter, particularly in Asia and Latin America.”

FedEx will release the details of its second quarter earnings and update its earnings outlook on December 17, 2009.


Btw--UPS' stock is up after-hours on the FedEx news as well....
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
FDX up over 2 bucks today, their peak is going great after they took over the DHL customers. Why did UPS not want those customers?

According to FedEx management, we pretty much split the DHL volume with UPS so it should be a wash overall. DHL discounted their rates so heavily near the end that neither FedEx nor UPS could match them and still make a profit.

I don't know about UPS, but FedEx adopted a policy of jettisoning unprofitable accounts a few years ago. We won't take-on a shipper just to get pkg count, but shippers also know they can play UPS and FedEx off against each other. Sometimes it boils down to who will give the latest PU time or make other special arrangements to give better service. I do know of times we've started flying airplanes into small airports just to capture a UPS account by giving the shipper an extra hour or two over sending it via a Brown truck.
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
other than a few biological accounts I didn't see much DHL volume. Acquiring Walmart's resi and site-to-store account and Amazon has had more of a visible effect.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
How is it that FDX is so far away from their projected numbers that they get to announce a re-mastered version and are rewarded for inaccuracy??

UPS will be "right on" with their projections and get punished by the Street. I guess I just don't get it !! :knockedout:
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
Not sure, we do get some Dell, HP etc... but most of it probably goes ground.

All I know is my route is pretty maxed out at this point. sad to say that 65stops is maxxed out, but I have a Pickup Route to do as well. hehe(yeah yeah I know I used to run almost 200 at UPS during peak.

I still say the stock price is directly related to the companies complete holdings more than profit margin in the package divisions.
 

airbusfxr

Well-Known Member
After Hours: 90.27 2.75 (3.14%) 7:59pm ET

Last Trade:87.52Trade Time:4:01pm ETChange: 0.41 (0.47%)Prev Close:87.93Open:88.01Bid:N/AAsk:N/A1y Target Est:89.40Day's Range:87.39 - 88.44
After hours it jumped
 
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