Filed my first grievance!

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by supercool, Dec 31, 2007.

  1. supercool

    supercool Member

    Welp, I finally did it. I had been avoiding it but my frustration has just gone through the roof with my management team.

    First, I'm a PT hub sorter... been with the company 2.5 years now. I sprained my ankle while working the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. I probably wouldn't have gone to the doctor, but I've sprained this ankle multiple times and the swelling was more severe than previous times, so I wanted to make sure it wasn't broken. I went to the doctor the next day (Wednesday) and he said I couldn't work until Monday. I was concerned about my holiday pay since I wouldn't work that night, so I called the office and asked if they would give me an option day so I could get my holiday pay. My manager said yes, provided that I get the note changed to say I could have done light duty (even if the light duty was sitting, doing nothing). I stayed home Wednesday night assuming I'd be just using an option day. I know, I know, I shouldn't have even let it go this far -- he wanted me to get it changed so there wouldn't be another lost-time injury on the sort. I said yes, because I just figured it'd be a you scratch our back, we scratch ours sort of thing. Stupid decision.

    Monday rolls around, which was my followup day, so I went back to the doctor and was released back to work. I asked him to change the note to say I could have done light duty the Wednesday I originally went. He said he'd get to it. In the meantime, I got my paycheck for the week of Thanksgiving, and surprise, no holiday pay, no option holiday. Great. They screwed me. I finally got the changed note from the doctor and went to my manager to get my pay fixed. He handed it off to a full-time supe who said he'd "get right on it." Next week rolls around, no holiday pay there either. I wait another week and finally get mad and file a grievance. I asked for my holiday pay and any compensatory pay I'm owed for the weeks they didn't correct my pay.

    My BA calls me the day after I fax it in, and I explained and clarified my story to him. He understood and was in disbelief they had the audacity to try to get me to change my note. He said it should be a pretty open and shut thing -- there's really no excuse for not giving me my holiday pay, especially after I jumped through all their stupid hoops. This was right before Christmas, but I haven't heard back from him since. I'm gonna call him on Wednesday to see if he's made any progress.

    So I'm here to vent a little bit, but also to ask what to expect? I'm new to the whole grievance thing. Will there be a hearing? I've heard UPS will have grievance hearings in other states so the person grieving won't be able to show and they won't pay -- I'm guessing this is a horror story, but is it out of the question? I just want what's owed to me. I work hard every day and didn't expect to be treated like this.
  2. Ms Spoken

    Ms Spoken New Member

    Welcome to the world of UPS everyone is just a warm body and a number (no matter how hard you work). My question is why didn't UPS have you working in the office if they didn't want any lost time on the books? JMO you really put your doctor on the line to have him change your slip after he had already made his diagnosis. What is going to stop UPS from saying that you had been released from the doctor on Wed. but, you didnt show up for work now that you have a different slip from the doctor? Good Luck with your grievance.
  3. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Unfortunately, Supercool has probably started a progression of problems for himself because he tried to work with his management team.

    A lesson for all.
  4. supercool

    supercool Member

    The doctor didn't change his diagnosis -- he changed the work restrictions he put on the note from "no work" to "light duty." I called in on Wednesday and they said they were letting me use one of my option days -- I didn't just not show up; they were well-aware of the situation.
  5. Ms Spoken

    Ms Spoken New Member

    Well good luck to you because it's going to be your word against theirs. Did you happen to get anything in writing when all of this took place? UPS has forms for you to fill out when you want to use a opt day that you punch on a time clock. Dont get me wrong here I do wish you luck on getting your correct pay but, it looks like it's going to be a fight.
  6. supercool

    supercool Member

    I've never seen any paperwork for option days before (even ones scheduled well in advance). Basically, there's a calendar in the office, and they write down the days people are taking off on it. Maybe it's different where you are, but where I work that's just how they do things. This was a spur of the moment thing. I understand that it would be my word against theirs, but I feel like the evidence was there -- why else would I go to the trouble of getting my doctor's note changed? I have both the original note and the "corrected" note.

    This is a dispute over $88. It's about the principle more than the money. I don't care about getting the option day; I tried taking it so I could get the holiday pay without the hassle (and that's now out the window). It's still in my bank of time off I could use at a later date.

    My feeling is this: I hurt myself right before the holiday, which might seem suspicious. I wouldn't go through that much pain to just get a day off, though -- I have tons of vacation, etc., I could have used to do that. I have the doctor notes to prove it was a legitimate injury. Four management people also saw the my ankle and how swollen it was (softball would be an adequate description of what it looked like). Instead of going in and "working" that Wednesday with my busted ankle, it just seemed more sensible to take that night off. I could have gone in on my crutches and risked injuring myself more (I wasn't very coordinated on them), or I could have stayed home. I was attempting to use one of the optional holidays I've accrued. From their standpoint, that should have been ideal: get the guy to use an option day on a day he was unable to work anyway, give him his holiday pay, and be done with it. I guess not paying me at all was even better.
  7. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    First off, Super, grievances take time...ALOT OF TIME! That's one of the issues that's addressed in the new contract. There will be a local hearing, there HAS to be a local hearing, that is, in your building with your immediate supes and manager or labor manager and union reps, probably your steward and BA.

    If deadlocked, which happens to almost every grievance here, it will go to state panel, probably at the union hall. Attended by an imparital (yeah, right!) panel made up of different UPS and union personel.

    If deadlocked again, it goes to JAC (Joint Area Council), most likely in a far away city. To keep you from attending? Most likely so but they hear a lot of cases from around region so it appears that it's a central location.

    Second...I feel you have a valid grievance BUT! As has been stated in previous posts here and other threads, do you have proof? Is anything in writing? Do you have witnesses? Could this be a case of "He said, I said and she said"?

    I realized that you went through you superiors and tried to work with them and they said they would. But have you ever had a pet, dog, cat, alligator, lion, mongoose, that was as docile as a newborn kitten but after time and when cornered, would turn into Godzilla who never knew you?

    Here, we DO have a form to fill out requesting an option day. Now, granted, there have been times when volume was down and an emergency came up and we just called and was granted our option without filling out the form.

    It appears you do have a good case but it's gonna take time. Some of my $ issues have taken 6 mos to a yr to get settled. Also, you may have a good case but it's gonna be hard to prove with no written proof and only their and your word.

    Good luck. Keep up informed, please
  8. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    We have management that work with their people well and we have people that work well with their management people.

    This case does not apply. According to this persons story management asked him to do something dishonest and he agreed to do it.

    Engaging in dishonest potentially illegal activity is not what I would classify as working with management. Don't help me out this way and don't violate your own personal belief system simply to "work with management"

    At this point you're both dirty.
  9. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    By using an option day, as UPS talked you into? You then lose any rights to Holidays. You have to work the whole week to get paid Holidays, unless I'm misunderstanding this.

    Regardless, Over9-5 is 100% right. You cannot let management push you aruond when it comes to your health and your work status. They do not care any about the person, you are not a person in their mind, just a body.
  10. DorkHead

    DorkHead Active Member

    I believe you have to work the day before and the day after to get paid for the holiday. A option day does qualify for a day worked.
  11. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    No, it doesn't under the changes they made in payroll. (very sneaky!) An option day does not count as "hours worked" anymore. At least not up in this district.
  12. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    "Regardless, Over9-5 is 100% right."

    Just wanted to say I agree with that comment! HA!

    Really, I'd have to agree with Tieguy. Both parties are dirty. INTEGRITY used to be a big deal at UPS.

    I want you all to know the REASON these kind of stories upset me. BECAUSE IT'S NEVER HAPPENED TO ME! I've never had a sup I didn't like. I HAVE had cms I haven't liked, but you don't need to like someone to work well with them, as long as there is respect. And I have never had to question any of my management teams integrity. I EXPECT integrity in my management team, and I've never been disappointed.

    Some of you may say I'm brown-nosing, but no-one knows who Over9five is. I believe anonymity is paramount in your ability to be honest and impartial while posting on BrownCafe. People ARE watching...
  13. old brown shoe

    old brown shoe 30 year driver

    I always understood that if you called in the day before or after a holiday you had to have a doctors excuse to get the holiday pay. It keeps people from calling in sick to get long weekends and get paid for both the sick day and holiday. Since you had a doctors note you should be paid for both.
  14. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    O9.5, you are correct that I don't know you, I don't know where you work( I'm guessing Neverland). The integrity factor an important aspect of being able to respect your bosses (IMO they are only superior in title). I have to say though you have either had a career blessed with very good luck or you live with your head in the sand or you flat out ain't tellin the truth. NO, I am NOT calling you a liar. One can tell falsehoods without knowing it.
    I have been with UP$ 23 years all total, but was close friends with several UP$ employees (some hourly and management) for several years before that. I have seen more cases similar to what what Cool is describing than I care to remember.
    Every one is right when they say DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT! Also, make and keep copies of everything you can get your hands on.
    I've had a center manager tell a just plan straight out lie to his boss and the labor relations manager in my presence when everyone in the room knew it was a lie and knew that everyone else knew it was a lie, yet it became documented same as the truth would have. So in one sentence three management people committed a breach of integrity.
    Cool, it's not too late to write all this down and keep in your personal records, that way you won't get fuzzy on the details if this thing drags on for a while.
    Good luck Cool,
  15. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    Don't forget about the 3rd dirty party in all this, the Doctor who changed the note.
  16. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    I'm confused, if you got hurt Tuesday, wouldn't that be your 2nd day of work? which would be good enough to collect pay for the holiday since you worked 2 days the holiday week, or is Tuesday considered your first day of work? Or maybe it's different where you are, in my jurisdiction you need to work 2 days the week of the holiday to get holiday pay, OR zero days the holiday week if you are out sick. Also, why did it take the Doctor so long to change the note?? Why would he not change it the day you went back and asked him to change it?? Was he debating whether it was immoral or not??
  17. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    " I stayed home Wednesday night assuming I'd be just using an option day. I know, I know, I shouldn't have even let it go this far "

    Folks, I'm going to say it again; if you don't work a day in the week with a Holiday, and use an option for that day, you don't get paid for the Holiday. I may be wrong, it might just apply to the day before and after a Holiday. Regardless, Option day /vacation hours are not entered as "hours worked" anymore, it's on a different line in the pay stub. UPS payroll changed this somewhere down the line and now you have to be careful. please, correct me if/where I'm wrong.
  18. ups79

    ups79 Active Member

    Out of our local all you had to do was to work the day before or the first work day after the holiday to receive holiday pay.
  19. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    Like I said it may differ from local to local, My area you need 2 days of work to get paid, (or zero if sick) don't matter which days. We had instances where an optional was counted for a work day in order to get paid for the holiday.
    You may be right in some instances Less Work.
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    thats the part I don't understand. I don't see a doctor risking his livelyhood to change a patients medical status. Either the doctor is dirty here or the manager was really asking for a clarification of duty status.

    We do go through situations where a person brings a vague doctors note that does not list lifting and lowering restrictions. At that point we send them back to the doctor to get that information.

    We also have situations where a doctor puts someone out not knowing we offer light duty. We then notify the doctor that we have light duty and ask the employee to go back to the doctor to get his/her restrictions.

    it sounds like one of these applies to the above. But for whatever reason the guy thinks he was talked into doing something dirty.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2007