FIRED...

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Threw down the cliche there. Very corporate of you.

Do you have a better way to express dissatisfaction with BS excuses?

Especially when they come from Management???

Management's primary job is to get work done through others.... To plan, follow up and hold accountable....

How can a manager hold an hourly accountable if we don't hold ourselves accountable?

Do you really want to blame Scott Davis because the OP missed packages in an area check? Give me a break.....
 

bottomups

Bad Moon Risen'
Guess I'm trying to differentiate between a parcel missed on an area check and several sheeted as EC on a bright sunny day! They are both service failures, but someone loses his or her job over an obvious mistake while somone else looks like a star on some report for getting their drivers in under 9.5 hours!
 

Dragon

Package Center Manager
Do you have a better way to express dissatisfaction with BS excuses?

Especially when they come from Management???

Management's primary job is to get work done through others.... To plan, follow up and hold accountable....


How can a manager hold an hourly accountable if we don't hold ourselves accountable?

Do you really want to blame Scott Davis because the OP missed packages in an area check? Give me a break.....

I don't plan anymore.....I run someone else's plan and I am held accountable for the follow up....crap in, crap out.

Maybe thats the problem..you see it as BS excuses...we in Operations live it, breathe it daily.

I am looking for people who are wanting to achieve excellence, firing someone is not gonna get me there, unfortunately others do not feel the same.

 
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SignificantOwner

A Package Center Manager
Do you have a better way to express dissatisfaction with BS excuses?

Especially when they come from Management???

In this situation I'd prefer a logical review of the situation that includes an explanation of a realistic acceptable miss rate for walk-offs compared to where the employee stands in relation to the expectation. What do you consider an acceptable rate for packages missed over a year's worth of walk-offs?

Management's primary job is to get work done through others.... To plan, follow up and hold accountable....

I agree with that, but a large part of accountability is attainable goals. As of yet I haven't seen anyone discuss how to measure walk-off effectiveness.

How can a manager hold an hourly accountable if we don't hold ourselves accountable?

Exactly. I see a whole group of people wanting to hold lower management and hourly more accountable than they're holding themselves. This is the thinking behind my previous comments. You mentioned that your contributions outweighed your mistakes. Do you allow for that same rationale to be used outside of your work group?

Do you really want to blame Scott Davis because the OP missed packages in an area check?

I don't recall blaming Scott Davis for that.

Give me a break.....

...break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar!!
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Double standards are bullsh%t.

Guess I'm trying to differentiate between a parcel missed on an area check and several sheeted as EC on a bright sunny day! They are both service failures, but someone loses his or her job over an obvious mistake while somone else looks like a star on some report for getting their drivers in under 9.5 hours!

I love me some Double Standards ... it really makes my day!
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Guess I'm trying to differentiate between a parcel missed on an area check and several sheeted as EC on a bright sunny day! They are both service failures, but someone loses his or her job over an obvious mistake while somone else looks like a star on some report for getting their drivers in under 9.5 hours!

All things being equal, improperly coding packages as EC is worse than the missed packages on an area check and warrants a termination as well.

The problem is that all things are not equal. No one on this board knows the circumstances surrounding the firing of the OP nor the circumstances around coding EC.

Yet many assume one is innocent and the other guilty.

BOTH are serious offenses. Using perceived inequities in one area to justify ones own action is a very slippery slope, and a game I won't play.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
In this situation I'd prefer a logical review of the situation that includes an explanation of a realistic acceptable miss rate for walk-offs compared to where the employee stands in relation to the expectation. What do you consider an acceptable rate for packages missed over a year's worth of walk-offs?

I agree with that, but a large part of accountability is attainable goals. As of yet I haven't seen anyone discuss how to measure walk-off effectiveness.

Exactly. I see a whole group of people wanting to hold lower management and hourly more accountable than they're holding themselves. This is the thinking behind my previous comments. You mentioned that your contributions outweighed your mistakes. Do you allow for that same rationale to be used outside of your work group?

I don't recall blaming Scott Davis for that.


...break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar!!

You mention that there should be some walk off standard and comparison. That there should be some logical review of the situation. I absolutely agree.

My point here is that no one on this board knows that info, yet assumes this person was improperly treated. Maybe, just maybe the OP has a perfect record. Made a human mistake. Was improperly disciplined....

On the other hand, maybe the OP had been talked to about effectiveness in doing his / her job and this was the last straw..... Of course from his / her perspective this was done for "personal reasons".

You nor I know this.

My rant has to do with management responsibility. Yes, at all levels.

When you use OPL as a justification comparison, I viewed that as blaming Scott Davis. (Of course, I exaggerated).
 

bottomups

Bad Moon Risen'
All things being equal, improperly coding packages as EC is worse than the missed packages on an area check and warrants a termination as well.

The problem is that all things are not equal. No one on this board knows the circumstances surrounding the firing of the OP nor the circumstances around coding EC.

Yet many assume one is innocent and the other guilty.

BOTH are serious offenses. Using perceived inequities in one area to justify ones own action is a very slippery slope, and a game I won't play.
A couple of months ago, I get a Diad message that I must be under 9.5. They ask what help I needed to make the cut. Replied that I needed help with 8 stops. Was told to leave the stops in my package car and someone would come to my satellite center and take care of them. Come in to work the next day and the parcels are still in my truck. Tracked a couple of the parcels on UPS.com and found out that they were coded as EC.
If I would have done this the previous day I would most likely have had a conversation with my center manager along with a steward. Someone in the center took the liberty to incorrectly code these packages to cover their butt.
It's their company and they can run it as they see fit. I can only work as directed!
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
A couple of months ago, I get a Diad message that I must be under 9.5. They ask what help I needed to make the cut. Replied that I needed help with 8 stops. Was told to leave the stops in my package car and someone would come to my satellite center and take care of them. Come in to work the next day and the parcels are still in my truck. Tracked a couple of the parcels on UPS.com and found out that they were coded as EC.
If I would have done this the previous day I would most likely have had a conversation with my center manager along with a steward. Someone in the center took the liberty to incorrectly code these packages to cover their butt.
It's their company and they can run it as they see fit. I can only work as directed!

You can also file an Art 37 grievance. Being instructed to stuff packages without recording them could be interpreted as a form of coercion. Its a bit of a stretch, and probably would not prevail at a grievance hearing, but it would shine some light on what was happening. More importantly, it would force the management person involved to explain his actions in an open forum. Regardless of whether your grievance prevailed or not, they wouldnt ever try pulling a stunt like that with you again.
 

beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member
A couple of months ago, I get a Diad message that I must be under 9.5. They ask what help I needed to make the cut. Replied that I needed help with 8 stops. Was told to leave the stops in my package car and someone would come to my satellite center and take care of them. Come in to work the next day and the parcels are still in my truck. Tracked a couple of the parcels on UPS.com and found out that they were coded as EC.
If I would have done this the previous day I would most likely have had a conversation with my center manager along with a steward. Someone in the center took the liberty to incorrectly code these packages to cover their butt.
It's their company and they can run it as they see fit. I can only work as directed!

The sad part is I don't doubt this story. It is very very frustrating that we have people taking shortcuts to "make the numbers look good". I think a lot of it is upper mgmt is putting so much pressure on the local operations they are taking short cuts that shouldn't. This is no excuse for what they did. Someone else posted that you can grieve this. I guess you could. However, the question has to be is it worth it to you? Sure you may or may not get the mgmt team in trouble. But I bet whoever is left will shine a bright light on you. Is that worth it? If you were to do anything, I would say go to the 1-800 hotline number to report this behavior. If you did it, I would make sure you had whatever info available to send in, picture of diad msg, picture of pkgs, written down tracking numbers etc. Who knows if they will try to blame you in the end.

Very frustrating when we try to win new business from customers and they tell us stories like this.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I have an even easier solution---if a customer asks about one of the pkgs and what "EC" means give them the number to the center and the center manager's name.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
If we are going to hold a lowly preload sup to such a high level of accountability over a single missed package....then what about the idiot Operations Managers at the District and Region level whose absurd Stops Per Car mandates result in hundreds of missed stops per day?

High standards are a good thing. Double standards are bullsh%t.

I love Double Standards!
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
A couple of months ago, I get a Diad message that I must be under 9.5. They ask what help I needed to make the cut. Replied that I needed help with 8 stops. Was told to leave the stops in my package car and someone would come to my satellite center and take care of them. Come in to work the next day and the parcels are still in my truck. Tracked a couple of the parcels on UPS.com and found out that they were coded as EC.
If I would have done this the previous day I would most likely have had a conversation with my center manager along with a steward. Someone in the center took the liberty to incorrectly code these packages to cover their butt.
It's their company and they can run it as they see fit. I can only work as directed!

Man, that's pretty ballsy.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Tracked a couple of the parcels on UPS.com and found out that they were coded as EC.

I don't think I would ever do anything like that.
I like my salary and pension too much.


You should stop by operations, this stuff goes on all the time. The other day I had a business package for another center misrouted onto my truck (bad pal label), sent the message using the misroute report in the DIAD, got a message back to make sure I sheeted it as closed before 1700 (so it wouldn't show missed). Called the center and asked the OMS who is instructing to me to do that, OMS says "that was me". I say you know that's dishonesty right? Because we aren't making an attempt and therefore the package should be sheeted as missed. OMS assures that it's OK they do this all the time in this type of situation. So fine, I sheet it that way and put "per OMS" in the remarks column to cover my ass.
 
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