HEFFERNAN
Huge Member
If you realize, when you do go quickly, sometimes you hit the wrong button twice or hit one double and you can't edit it out afterwards.
And by using this word, you show that you don't like him because he is making you look bad. Just end it and deal with yourself. You are showing that you are the one causing the problem, it's not like you are paying a claim. DROP IT
M
Mike23
Guest
Sorry, things that don't add up tend to bother me
It's an anal attentive habit of mine to always question 'why' to a sup...which drives them crazy. Also the 'wrong button' was actually four wrong buttons which I find hard to imagine since it was only a 3 digit number and none of them matched up.As to I'm not paying the claim...Do you not think we'd all be making more money if we didn't have claims?
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
No! You make the same amount of money whether there are claims or not. Let it go and it will eventually be fixed. You may want to consult a therapist to help you with your OCD.Sorry, things that don't add up tend to bother me
As to I'm not paying the claim...Do you not think we'd all be making more money if we didn't have claims?
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Mike23
Guest
No! You make the same amount of money whether there are claims or not. Let it go and it will eventually be fixed. You may want to consult a therapist to help you with your OCD.
What OCD *touches the mouse three times*. You're kidding yourself though if you don't think that the claims don't play a part in our contract negotiations. Think of how big UPS is. If 1 driver in every depot gets a $10 claim a day...well, I dunno the math but I'm sure it's a high number
*touches his ear six times*
*make that seven!*
stevetheupsguy
sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
LOL, glad you caught my humor. I ask you this then. What do you think you should do? What do you think should happen to the cover driver? Were you ever a cover driver thinking that you had to do all that was necessary to please the boss? Take your time, as these are all loaded questions.What OCD *touches the mouse three times*. You're kidding yourself though if you don't think that the claims don't play a part in our contract negotiations. Think of how big UPS is. If 1 driver in every depot gets a $10 claim a day...well, I dunno the math but I'm sure it's a high number
*touches his ear six times*
HEFFERNAN
Huge Member
What OCD *touches the mouse three times*. You're kidding yourself though if you don't think that the claims don't play a part in our contract negotiations. Think of how big UPS is. If 1 driver in every depot gets a $10 claim a day...well, I dunno the math but I'm sure it's a high number
*touches his ear six times*
UPS will pay the same amount of insurance regardless if there was 1 or a 100
The insurance company wins no matter what. If it did go up it would be a pistachio shell on a train track. Insignificant to them, INSIGNIFICANT TO YOU
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Mike
I will tell you something and you can either take it to heart, or let it out the other ear.
This is not your route. These are not your customers.
While I understand your thoughts on this (and in some cases I agree), you need to let this one rest. Let it go. The only thing this will win you is a hard time, not only from other drivers, but your management team as well. They wont take to kindly to you badmouthing their golden boy. And the other drivers will take note as well.
For you this is a lose lose if you take action. Let it go. There are many battles you will fight while at UPS. Choose wisely.
d
I will tell you something and you can either take it to heart, or let it out the other ear.
This is not your route. These are not your customers.
While I understand your thoughts on this (and in some cases I agree), you need to let this one rest. Let it go. The only thing this will win you is a hard time, not only from other drivers, but your management team as well. They wont take to kindly to you badmouthing their golden boy. And the other drivers will take note as well.
For you this is a lose lose if you take action. Let it go. There are many battles you will fight while at UPS. Choose wisely.
d
moontheloon1982
Member
I respectfully disagree with you dannyboy. If he is expected to answer for this guy lies why should he hesitate to be truthful. I wouldnt expect anyone to lie to management to cover my ass. Even if he is your "teamster brother" you gotta look out for number one first. I wouldnt go as far as to cast accusations on anyone, but I would certainly present the facts to management and let them draw their own conclusions. I would first probably try to mentor the guy and get him to understand why forging signatures is probably not the smartest career move. Maybe he doesnt realize that he is putting his job on the line every time he does it....he'll probably wise up and figure out that its not worth it just to save a minute or two. If it happened again after that I'd definately insist management investigate the situtation.
Or you could always have a steward try to talk some sense to him if you dont want to get involved. Also, other drivers arent going to back this guy. I know we need to stick together but we still have to maintain some standard of honesty. We like to think we are fighting the good fight...right? Unions werent created to protect and enable liars. Maybe I'm naive, I dunno.
sealbasher
Well-Known Member
Alright, this is kind of a whiny post, which is fine, because it has me steamed up pretty good (and not in the good way).
Whenever I'm on holidays or what not, I have a regular cover guy. I have one of the harder routes in my city and usually manage 300-450 pkgs a day and over 100 stops by 1630 (including my pickups in that total). There are MAYBE 2 - 3 more routes busier then mine. Usually I travel about 60-70KM a day, which isn't too bad for someone who was pretty much just 'thrown on a truck' and told to deliver, at least in my opinion, about a year ago.
So, while on vacation this guy covers for me and starts claiming he does +18 stops an hour to all of my customers. Well, good for him. My customers hate his guts because of his bragging since they all know that it's impossible to do (except in the morning when the first hour I usually average 20-25 stops).
I come back from vacation and find a driver follow up with his name on it. Ok, no big deal, everyone makes mistakes. I then checked the signature and name. The name is (names have been changed to protect the ID of the made up people) Bob. Well, I KNOW that there's never been a Bob that's worked there. I then ask the customer about the signature. They say that no one signs their name like that. Hmm, kind of fishy I think. I make a casual mention to my sup about it and make a mental note of it.
Now, today. I got ANOTHER driver follow up (2nd in 2 weeks) from when he delivered. The address is fine but he put 'unit 4289'. Well, I ask security about where unit 4289 would be. I even check, in the security office, their listing of unit numbers. There is no unit 4289. Ok, no biggy, I then go to where it was supposed to be delivered (lets say 874). I ask if they ever received a pkg from such and such company. The receptionist told me they weren't too sure. So I ask if a 'Steve' has ever worked there. I'm told that he did not. I then show them the signature and they say, 'well, we don't have anyone that signs their name that way'. She then says they DID receive a pkg from such and such a company though. She takes me to it and behold, it's the right pkg!
Now, it really peeves me off because I've wasted TWO stops in TWO weeks on a driver followup that shouldn't happen because this 'superman delivery man' (in his own head) obviously forges signatures. I called my sup immediately and told him what occured (without stating that the guy forged signatures of course). I also made note of it on the driver followup sheet.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want the guy fired but I DO NOT want him back doing my route if he can't take care of, what I consider, MY customers. It also creates more work on a busy enough route because he's too lazy to do his job properly. I was also covering my bottom because if a year down the road they pull all his (which are probably numerous) driver followup sheets, I didn't want to be brought in to question and asked why I didn't report it before and be termed on account of that.
My personal feelings also are that if you don't report a dishonest act you're just as dishonest. If it was done only to me and only harmed me, then no big deal. Since it harmed innocent people (my customers) it really got my goat.
I REALLY doubt my sup will do much more then just put a little scare into him by saying, 'don't do it again or else' which is all to become of it. I do feel I could have called the 'rat line' but that's just not me and as I said, it was mostly done to cover my own behind.
Did I do the right thing or not? Or am a horrible driver who should now be labled a 'rat'?
i have to work my a s s off,so anyone covers my area they die like rat,my customers hate anyone but me,hence UPService
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Mike23
Guest
LOL, glad you caught my humor. I ask you this then. What do you think you should do? What do you think should happen to the cover driver? Were you ever a cover driver thinking that you had to do all that was necessary to please the boss? Take your time, as these are all loaded questions.
I've actually done cover driving for a bit. I'll admit, I will forge a signature or two if the situation is dire. By dire I mean I had a woman holding a dog with one hand and a baby with the other. I'm not going to ask the woman to let the dog go to bite me or to drop her child (since she'd let go of the dog first anyways!). I just got her verbal confirmation I could sign and that was that. The other time was a $500 COD for a company that wasn't listed on the brokerage sheet. They should have been but UPS dropped the ball again. Anyways, I got their credit card number, recorded her saying I could use it and that was that since there's really no other way I could have gotten that info without her consent.
It's extremely rare that I'll do it as you can see and usually there's good reason for it (customer service first). His reasoning is that he just wants more time to relax. He WAS getting back at the depot by 1630 so they put resies on the run. That's when he whined it was too much work and wanted another run or he'd quit. He only cover drives that run because only myself, him and two other drivers has ever been able to do it successfully (and one was there when it was made and had done it for 12 years before the big oil boom. Now he's doing feeder).
As to what should happen to him? I say give'em the boot.
1. It's committing fraud (as we're ALWAYS being told)
2. It's actually committing forgery also
Both of these are crimes which can result in jail time.
I didn't use any names in the reporting. I also talked to my HR department about it and they said I should talk to the loss prevention guy in our depot because I'm apparently still under the gun even though I already reported it in writing. I don't WANT to be a rat about it I'm just not dumb unfortunately so therefore can be held liable in UPS' eyes even though I haven't done anything wrong
M
Mike23
Guest
I won't disagree that my poop doesn't stink like anyone else but when you break federal law that's crossing the line. That's not just crossing it but taking a pole and vaulting over it, doing a back flip and landing a perfect 10 score. It's just something I don't agree with AT ALL. If he were to ask permission to sign for them, that's completely different though.
As to it not being my route, this route has been known at the depot as a driver killer. Every driver who's taken it since the guy who started it and did it for 12 years has crashed and burned. When it came up for bid NO ONE put a bid on it except me. It's not a bad route once you get used to it the problem is management just won't leave it alone and so tinker with it every month or so to make it worse and worse. Next question is probably why do I want it then? I work for UPS, what can I say, I'm a glutton for punishment
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
A better solution would be to sign for the package yourself with your own signature, and clarify your own name. In the remarks field type in "driver signed". This way there is no dishonesty occuring and you are making it obvious that you are not trying to conceal anything. You arent forging anything. This is an important distinction, because dishonesty is a cardinal offense which subjects you to immediate termination, whereas there is nothing dishonest about signing and clarifying your own name; it is merely a violation of company policy for which you will have the opportunity to offer an explanation for your actions. I have done this myself for a blind customer and a customer with a gruesome case of arthritis that made her totally unable to hold a stylus.
Also, if the delivery is a COD, and the customer already has a check filled out and signed, the signature on the check can be treated as a signed delivery notice and sheeted as such.
Do not ever....for any reason...forge a customers signature.
If a woman is holding a dog and can't sign i'd put 'on file'...not forge the signature. or if can DR it i will and put the person's name in the remarks.
but in any case, in regards the the DFU-I don't think it's worth investing your time and effort to try to reform this guy. if that's how he gets the route done then so be it. let management worry about it let them do what they do best-try to fire people.
but in any case, in regards the the DFU-I don't think it's worth investing your time and effort to try to reform this guy. if that's how he gets the route done then so be it. let management worry about it let them do what they do best-try to fire people.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Mike
Its not your route, it and the customers on it belong to UPS, not you. Yeah, you bid on it, but you are letting the "my route" get too personal.
Moon
I never ever said he should lie.
What I did say was that mike does not need to go running to management with his little story. That story is based on suspicion on his part, not based on hard fact. And even of it were based on hard fact, he does not need to be running off at the mouth to management because another driver pisses him off.
When the time comes, there will be a trend that shows up. When that time comes and they ask questions, by all means answer them truthfully. But to run to management to spread gossip on another driver, that will not benefit him in any way. Especially since the cover driver can beat mike by 2 clicks a day. That makes it look like mike is trying to cause trouble for the driver because of that.
Goes back to the old saying, If I cut you down, does it make me stand any taller?
Let it be, and document.
d
Its not your route, it and the customers on it belong to UPS, not you. Yeah, you bid on it, but you are letting the "my route" get too personal.
Moon
I never ever said he should lie.
What I did say was that mike does not need to go running to management with his little story. That story is based on suspicion on his part, not based on hard fact. And even of it were based on hard fact, he does not need to be running off at the mouth to management because another driver pisses him off.
When the time comes, there will be a trend that shows up. When that time comes and they ask questions, by all means answer them truthfully. But to run to management to spread gossip on another driver, that will not benefit him in any way. Especially since the cover driver can beat mike by 2 clicks a day. That makes it look like mike is trying to cause trouble for the driver because of that.
Goes back to the old saying, If I cut you down, does it make me stand any taller?
Let it be, and document.
d
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
When the cover driver has to start paying for the negative DFUs hopefully he will realize that it is simply not worth it.
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Mike23
Guest
Perfect! Thanks for the info on that. I'll be sure to do that in the future. I completely forgot about the driver remark field!
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Mike23
Guest
It's a matter of CYA for me. As I said, I was told if I don't report it I CAN be held liable and possibly lose my job over this dink. I've never mentioned a name to management about it but only told them about the stops I've done. I also wrote it in the driver followup sheet. The only thing I haven't done is talk to our loss prevention guy but my HR guy told me that it'd be a good idea to since I can STILL be held liable for all this crap. I dunno if this is management just trying to squeeze me or if it's true and that I could lose my job over having a brain and able to add 1+1
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Perfect! Thanks for the info on that. I'll be sure to do that in the future. I completely forgot about the driver remark field!
Bear in mind that by signing your own name you are still setting yourself up for disciplinary action. You are breaking the rules and doing something you are not supposed to do. It should only be done under the most extreme circumstances and you had better be able to justify your actions in front of a grievance panel with your job on the line. In my 22 years I have only done it 3 or 4 times, and only in the case of a disabled customer who was physically incapable of signing. You arent supposed to sign for packages, and if that means standing there and waiting a few minutes for the customer to sign then so be it. I am saying this because I dont want you to think that I have suggested a new shortcut for you to use, I was only pointing put that forging a customers signature is an act of dishonesty that is grounds for immediate termination. No warning letter, no suspension, do not pass go and do not collect $200. By signing your own name you are merely giving yourself a chance to get your job back if you get caught.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
It's a matter of CYA for me. As I said, I was told if I don't report it I CAN be held liable and possibly lose my job over this dink. I've never mentioned a name to management about it but only told them about the stops I've done. I also wrote it in the driver followup sheet. The only thing I haven't done is talk to our loss prevention guy but my HR guy told me that it'd be a good idea to since I can STILL be held liable for all this crap. I dunno if this is management just trying to squeeze me or if it's true and that I could lose my job over having a brain and able to add 1+1
You cannot be held responsible for the actions of another driver.
When given a driver followup to do, your job is to verify whether or not the customer actually received the package, to have them sign the form to that effect, and to turn that form in to your management team. Thats it, nothing more.
It is not your job to draw conclusions or inform management of your "suspicions". They can draw whatever conclusions and take whatever action they choose to based upon the information that they have. Their choices are not your concern.
Your job is to deliver the packages in your truck following the methods that they have specified. Whatever occurs on your route when you are not on it is not your concern, it is between the cover driver and your management team. You werent there, you had nothing to do with it, it isnt your deal.
If the cover driver is screwing your route up and misdelivering packages, your job is then to clean up his mess at the contractually agreed upon rate of pay per hour. Whether or not you like it is irrelevant. If your customers are pissed off at the cover driver, that is between them and the cover driver and your management team. The customers can choose to call the 1-800 number to complain, and your management team can choose to take whatever action they deem appropriate. None of those choices have anything to do with you.
If you want to have a happy career at UPS you will need to learn the simple skill of owning what's yours and leaving behind what isnt.
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