G.O.P. Debate 11-22-11

[UnconTROLLed]

I refer you to this no so definitive but popular site:
Socialist state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an excerpt:
socialist government, which generally refers to a liberal democratic state presided over by an elected majority socialist party that is not, or does not necessarily have to be, pursuing the development of socialism; the state apparatus is not constitutionally bound to an eventual transition to socialism. Non-statist socialists such as anarcho-socialists, libertarian socialists and Council communists reject the concept of a "socialist state" altogether, believing that the modern state is a byproduct of capitalism and cannot be used, or is not required, to establish a socialist system.

We don't have a socialist party majority. Last I checked the Republicans had majority in the House.

 

[trplnkl]

We don't have a socialist party majority. Last I checked the Republicans had majority in the House.

And your point is?

 

[Catatonic]

So, what word would you use to describe the West Europe Socialist Democracies?
They call themselves Socialists. The name of their political parties include "Socialist".

It is my observation of Obama that he is trying to institute social programs that are common in and define Western European Socialist Democracies.

I do agree that calling Obama a Fascist or a Marxist is a stretch but I do think Obama's actions has more attributes of a Fascist than did Bush Jr.

Rooseveltian

Roosevelt was more conservative than George Bush Sr and Jr and Bill Clinton.

Because you asked me to, I have done a good bit of research and it would seem that the correct category in which to place Obama is "Democratic Socialist".

I think this is a fair change and after my research (none occurred on right wing sites) I feel strongly that

Obama is a Democratic Socialist.

 

[bbsam]

I understand you feel that way, but I would hardly say that Obama has treated Wall Street with any kind of malevolence whatsoever except for a couple harsh speeches here and there. Seems to me that a strong social safety net is smart to governance as a strong pay and benefit structure is to a Fortune 500 company.

 

[Jones]

You can broaden your definition of socialism out large enough that it essentially becomes meaningless. If Obama is a socialist then so is pretty much everybody else, including the republican candidates. The only true socialist on capitol hill is Bernie Sanders. Actual card carrying socialists don't seem to think too much of Obama either.

 

[MrFedEx]

You can broaden your definition of socialism out large enough that it essentially becomes meaningless. If Obama is a socialist then so is pretty much everybody else, including the republican candidates. The only true socialist on capitol hill is Bernie Sanders. Actual card carrying socialists don't seem to think too much of Obama either.

Hoaxter thinks Dubya was a Socialist. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Hoaxter thinks Dubya was a Socialist. That should tell you all you need to know.

And you think anyone who does not like your Messiah is a racist...so...

 

[Catatonic]

So, what word would you use to describe the West Europe Socialist Democracies?
They call themselves Socialists. The name of their political parties include "Socialist".

It is my observation of Obama that he is trying to institute social programs that are common in and define Western European Socialist Democracies.

You can broaden your definition of socialism out large enough that it essentially becomes meaningless. If Obama is a socialist then so is pretty much everybody else, including the republican candidates. The only true socialist on capitol hill is Bernie Sanders. Actual card carrying socialists don't seem to think too much of Obama either.

We are in agreement whether you realize it or not.
This is an except from the link you posted:
Democratic Socialists are more interested in protecting ordinary people from unregulated capitalism through regulation and progressive taxation.
Some of the socialist agenda is already part of American life, according to Wharton and others.

Social Security, Medicare, unemployment benefits -- all reflect socialistic values, says Van Gosse, an associate professor of history at Franklin & Marshall College in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, who has researched socialist movements in the United States and Latin America.
The widely accepted notions of public education and Pell Grants for college students are socialistic in origin, Gosse says. They fit well with the socialistic premise that government should provide basic security from the cradle to the grave to all of its citizens, he says.

Socialists scoff at Obamacare and they don't applaud the passage of the recent health care bill. They wanted a national "single-payer" health insurance plan with a government option. The bill that Obama championed didn't have any of those features.

As an aside:
I have stated many times in the past that the biggest hang-up I had with Obamacare program was that is was a half-assed, messed up piece of legislation. What a National Healthcare plan should do is cover everybody but allow people with the means, to get health care outside of the National Healthcare program.

I do not know of a Western style democracy that exists today that is not a form of Socialism ... I would be happy to be enlightened if someone can come up with an example.

Think of all the Democracies as visible light and as we know, light is composed on the colors of the rainbow.
The most Socialistic countries (Portugal, Spain, Italy, Norway, etc) are in the red part of the spectrum while the US is violet at the other end of the spectrum. Obama and the Democrats, based on my observations would like to move the USA to somewhere in the green area of the spectrum which is where you find France, UK Germany, etc.
(This is not exact or scientific folks, just an analogy).