"get that crap off the lawn"...Oklahoma Supreme Court says...

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I've just never understood why everyone insists on using the commandments from the tablets Moses destroyed and no one ever insists we use the commandments that came on the second version. Never understood why these great commandments are never embraced by all these wonderful god fearing folk!
 

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
I've just never understood why everyone insists on using the commandments from the tablets Moses destroyed and no one ever insists we use the commandments that came on the second version. Never understood why these great commandments are never embraced by all these wonderful god fearing folk!

Theravada vs Mahayana...same deal.

I'm not complaining that the tenants of Buddhism aren't displayed on the lawn at the place where I go to pay my parking tickets.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Judicial Review wasn't expressly addressed in the Constitution either, but that train left the building...over two hundred years ago?

You didn't mind when certain judges went 'off the reservation' when it suited your idea about things you agree with. By your own measures of how the SC should run, the Citizens United decision was a travesty.

More to the point, our bicameral government is so dysfunctional that the idea of amending the Constitution is laughable.

If I read you correctly, you are against the Brown vs. Board of Education decision?

Argle bargle.

Pure applesauce.

As I see it, the three houses of our government are a venn diagram. At certain times, one circle or another will become larger or smaller, and we'll proceed into the future.

I don't see you complaining about Executive overreach, or Legislative flaccidity.
Like I said, Judicial Review is a train that's left the station.

Basically, it's settled.

I think it started with a SC decision in 1796.

You clearly don't understand The Constitution, the three branches of government, or the judicial branch's role in relation to The Constitution.
I like how you 'read into' the Second amendment, which is frankly kind of vague (made total sense at the time, doesn't quite work as written in 2015), but you won't consider 'reading into' other parts of the Constitution.
I have read NOTHING into any part of The Constitution. One does not need to if they understand and respect what it actually says. The right to KEEP and BEAR arms is quite crystal clear. As is the rest of the document.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
So what laws are they referring to if only amending and repealing were to change?
Section 8 only grants Congress the power to make laws to carry into execution what's already laid out in The Constitution. Not laws that redefine or ignore it. The only way around language in The Constitution is to amend or repeal. That's how it's supposed to be but activist judges think they are above everything.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Section 8 only grants Congress the power to make laws to carry into execution what's already laid out in The Constitution. Not laws that redefine or ignore it. The only way around language in The Constitution is to amend or repeal. That's how it's supposed to be but activist judges think they are above everything.
But a law that prohibits a Nativity scene at a courthouse or even a judges ruling that it shouldn't be there does nothing to infringe upon an individual's rights.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
But a law that prohibits a Nativity scene at a courthouse or even a judges ruling that it shouldn't be there does nothing to infringe upon an individual's rights.
A law against it violates The First Amendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
A law against it violates The First Amendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Exactly. It is not the government's right but an individual's right. But at a courthouse, government property, an individual's right does not hold sway over the government's need to remain neutral with respect to even the appearance of favoring one religion over another.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Exactly. It is not the government's right but an individual's right. But at a courthouse, government property, an individual's right does not hold sway over the government's need to remain neutral with respect to even the appearance of favoring one religion over another.
That's your opinion and I respect it but it isn't supported by the actual language in The Constitution. There simply isn't any that states the government can restrict it nor that they aren't allowed to do it themselves. It only states that they can't force it on others by law.
 

Lineandinitial

Legio patria nostra
When did everyone start becoming so offended by things that have been in place for some time? Has Obama got the liberal bandwagon careening down the mountainside and all the Libs want to climb aboard?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
When did everyone start becoming so offended by things that have been in place for some time? Has Obama got the liberal bandwagon careening down the mountainside and all the Libs want to climb aboard?
Let's just say that in Bill O'REILLY's culture war, the battle has finally been joined.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
You clearly don't understand The Constitution, the three branches of government, or the judicial branch's role in relation to The Constitution.

I have read NOTHING into any part of The Constitution. One does not need to if they understand and respect what it actually says. The right to KEEP and BEAR arms is quite crystal clear. As is the rest of the document.

Here's the essence of why it's wrong. I'll go slow, so you can follow. In a nation that allows freedom of/from religion why does one religion get preferential treatment? The Ten Commandments are a Christian deal, and therefore, do NOT belong on any government property. I'm sure you'd be OK with recitations from the Koran plastered all over government facilities, right? There should be ZERO associations with religion(s) at government offices etc. None.

We are not a Christian monotheistic nation, but a polytheistic country where you can believe in anything you want. The intent of the founders was clear. Freedom of religion also equals freedom from religion, and church and state need to be separate entities, for obvious reasons, which, of course, are incomprehensible for you.

I'm waiting for the day when someone demands that their religious symbols be placed on government property. While I'm at it, "In God We Trust" needs to be removed from our currency.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
You clearly don't understand The Constitution, the three branches of government, or the judicial branch's role in relation to The Constitution.

I have read NOTHING into any part of The Constitution. One does not need to if they understand and respect what it actually says. The right to KEEP and BEAR arms is quite crystal clear. As is the rest of the document.

Your implied expertise in the constitution is plagued by inaccuracies as usual.

You write this:

"The right to KEEP and BEAR arms"

you capitalize the T in the giving the sense that this is a stand alone sentence, and therefore has its own independent meaning.

But as we already discussed, that sentence does not exist in the second amendment as a STAND ALONE sentence, and it is merely a "fragment" of another sentence.

Recapping, the second amendment has a preamble,

A Well Regulated Militia, (comma) Thats called the subject. Then the COMMA, which means that everything after the preamble is QUALIFIES the preamble.

To you, english or punctuation doesnt exist

Lets read it together:

A Well Regulated Militia, (preamble/subject)(comma)
being necessary for the security of the state,(Qualifier of subject)(comma)
the right of the people to keep and bear arms,(Qualifier of subject)(comma)
shall not be infringed.(Qualifier of subject)(period)

TO people like you, you take the third fragment out of the entire sentence and give it a stand alone meaning and interpretation. You want to ignore the two commas in front of the fragment but want to include the last fragment into the third fragment.

In other words, you want us to believe that the third and fourth fragments are connected by the comma and apply to one another, but the first two fragments separated by a comma and in front of the third fragment have no connection.

This is the kind of lunacy of the those who think they can interpret verbage.

I will agree, that for now, guns are allowed by the states and the states can regulate them at will. But the second amendment isnt as clear as you would want to portray.

Thanks to gun lobbies, and republican leaning supreme court justices, you still have the right to own guns.

Someday , that might change. Who knows.

But like the second amendment, you dont understand or comprehend the 1st amendment either.

The Oklahoma Supreme Court has ruled, its interpretations are the same as mine and others, and it doesnt side with YOU or your thoughts regardless of what you think.

YOU are wrong on the issue and all the foot stomping in the world isnt going to change it.

Maybe an english lit class may help.

Let me leave you with this, and you tell me what I am talking about:

"Overpaid Union thug, a member of the teamsters, working for United Parcel Service, shall not be prohibited from driving a package car".

TOS.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
But a law that prohibits a Nativity scene at a courthouse or even a judges ruling that it shouldn't be there does nothing to infringe upon an individual's rights.

I agree with your point but let me add to this from the standpoint of a atheist/agnostic.

If a nativity scene or ten commandments on the courthouse lawn is allowed and there is no ulterior motive to push a purely religious agenda (and there are such in "SOME" of the 10 commandment cases IMO) in using the State for the purpose of evangelism and the whole display is paid for and maintain by private funds at no cost to taxpayers, I got no problem with that myself but I'm only speaking for me and not for something that proclaims itself a movement. Obviously others feel different.

Both the nativity and 10 commandments are a part of our western culture and tradition which both have impacted society and our norms. To ignore that is foolish but we also need to open the discussion up further and consider other cultural constructs that have equally impacted what we are and who we have become.

Besides, I like nativity scenes as you can stand there and point to different figures in the setting and say, "that was in the Gospel of Luke but that part came from Matthew. And neither Mark or John made any mention of any of this at all."

Neither did Paul for that matter.

And nobody made mention of the little drummer boy. Poor little fella!
;)
 
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