Give up your US Citizenship?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by twnjrspc, Mar 12, 2007.

  1. twnjrspc

    twnjrspc New Member

    Give up my US Citizenship! What are you crazy!

    Well,the APWA is attempting to persuade 30% of the 230,000 UPS Teamsters, to decertify, give up what rights and protections thay have, to follow a handful of people, that have divised an untested plan, that merely exists on paper.

    The APWA leaders spread UPS corporate propaganda on our pensions. Check for the facts on this matter. The APWA advocates an anti-union “right to work state” posture, insisting that UPS workers should be able to decline to pay their union dues, sticking the rest of us with the bill. Their attorney’s firm advertises that they help corporations break unions and force health care concessions on workers. In short, they are against basic union principles.

    Simply put,this situation is no different than in our Governments, that are elected to represent us. For hundreds of years they have been corrupted, and have failed us. Does that mean we revoke our citizenship, and what rights, benefits, and protections we have, to follow a handful of people that have divised an untested plan, that merely exists on paper? Absolutely not! We vote them out!

    If UPS Teamsters want change, and many do want change in our union, we have the tools to make it happen. First of all, we can elect our top IBT officials. James Hoffa was reelected Teamster president in November with 174,900 votes. There are 230,000 UPS Teamsters, and the number is growing. Do the math: UPS workers have the power to elect our top leaders. We can elect leaders in our local unions. And we have a right to vote by secret ballot, by majority rule, on our contract and contract supplements. Are those hard to accomplish? You bet. But they are a hell of a lot easier than uniting 230,000 Teamsters to leave their union to end up with no protection.

    It was Teamsters for a Democratic Union that fought for and won all these rights.

    If Teamsters had been distracted into anti-union efforts like the APWA, we never would have won the right to elect our top leaders or majority rule on our contract votes, or 25-and-out; we would not have won our 1997 strike.
    We respect the right of all Teamsters to consider any option.

    Check out the facts for yourself. If you want positive change, the right course is Teamsters for a Democratic Union, a movement that is 100 percent Teamster, 100 percent noncorruptible, and with a proven track record of positive victories.
  2. nospinzone

    nospinzone New Member

    From the NLRB website:
    Congress approved the National Labor Relations Act in 1935 to encourage a healthy relationship between private-sector workers and their employers, which policy makers viewed as vital to the national interest.....The NLRA extends many rights to workers who wish to form, join or support unions, also known as labor organizations; to workers who are already represented by unions; and to workers who join together as a group (two or more employees) without a union seeking to modify their wages or working conditions, which is known as protected concerted activities.

    The Act outlines basic rights of employees as follows:

      • To self-organization.
      • To form, join, or assist labor organizations.
      • To bargain collectively for wages and working conditions through representatives of their own choosing.
      • To engage in other protected concerted activities with or without a union, which are usually group activities (two or more employees acting together) attempting to improve working conditions, such as wages and benefits.
      • To refrain from any of these activities. (However a union and employer may, in a State where such agreements are permitted, enter into a lawful union-security clause).
    Your analogy, twn, is a poor one and based on flawed opinion. As defined by the NLRA, employees have their right to "join, form or assist labor organizations". We, the APWA supporters, believe the IBT has failed us and no longer operates in the best interest of the UPS employee. Therefore, we have no interest in IBT elections and wish to exercise our constitutional right to join or assist the labor organization of our choice.

    Well,the APWA is attempting to persuade 30% of the 230,000 UPS Teamsters, to decertify, give up what rights and protections thay have, to follow a handful of people, that have divised an untested plan, that merely exists on paper. These signatures we're collecting "merely exist on paper". This "paper tiger" is gonna be serving a "paper petition" to the NLRB. Be careful not to get a "paper cut".

    UPS corporate propaganda.....either show the proof and have the NLRB shut the APWA down, or stop squealing like a stuck pig. for the facts on this matter.....obviously a reliable, trustworthy organization which is above reproach and without a history of lying to its members.

    The APWA advocates an anti-union “right to work state” posture, insisting that UPS workers should be able to decline to pay their union dues, sticking the rest of us with the bill. Whats wrong with giving people a choice? Afraid of exposing yourself to the idea of giving your customers....aka members.... a choice. If your members approve of your performance, they continue sending in their dues and supporting their union. If you suck at your job, you see it in your bottomline which gives you encouragement to listen to your members more closely.
  3. twnjrspc

    twnjrspc New Member

    My analogy is dead on. That's why you've avoided it and went straight to the NLRB statement. If i'm correct, it was you that stated in response to my a prior post, that if your government's not working for you, them vote them out. You gave the example of how the Dem's have taken control, via the vote, etc. But this analogy doesn't apply here though? Right? You're contradicting yourself, and you know damn well, I'm right.

    Let's get something straight...don't talk about the rights of people from one side of your mouth, and then threaten me with "Be careful not to get a "paper cut", from the other side of your mouth. Again you contradict yourself.

    In your own words, "As defined by the NLRA, employees have their right to "join, form or assist labor organizations". Thus my involvment in TDU. If you were truly a reform minded organization, you would relate to TDU, but that's not a part of your agenda. You hate all of us whom are Teamsters, TDU or not.
  4. nospinzone

    nospinzone New Member

    Legal Right of Suffrage, Federal or Labor

    Congress establishes law to protect my rights and defines what actions i may take to obtain recourse when elected representatives fail to perform to my expectations. Constitutional ammendments 14, 15, 19, 24, 26 protect the voters rights in selecting federal representation, just as the NLRA protect my rights and those of my co-workers in respect to choosing a collective bargaining agent. Are you saying that the NLRA does not provide me and 30% of my co-workers who no longer approve of our CBA performance the right to initiate the NLRB secret-ballot election process?

    And TWN, you are most certainly correct when you say that I am not reform minded. Reformation implies that salvage and restoration are possible, and I believe the IBT is beyond salvage, thus I exercise my rights described above.
  5. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    Re: Legal Right of Suffrage, Federal or Labor

    Now that's what I call a response. Nice work!
  6. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Interesting to see the now defunct TDU supporting the teamsters against the APWA threat?
  7. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Excellent point Tie! That is very interesting is it not. What amazes me even more now is the change in some of the threads here. Sometime back, the APWA related threads were all from APWA spammers as they attempted to promote their cause. Now we have the anti-APWA crowd starting the threads to attack a movement that a few months ago these same folks were decrying as meaningless, a waste of time, stupid and going nowhere. Now it appears things are changing and IMO their attacks would seem to suggest APWA may be gaining some ground and have the IBT and it's fellow travelers a lot more concerned than they first suggested.

    I personally felt at best APWA was a ball bat that good UPS Teamster members could use to steer the leadership of the union but maybe even I underestimated their (APWA) movement and it could really have a much greater impact. Not signed a de-cert card myself and I'm inclined to take a wait and see approach (I like to force the salesman into really making them work for my business and never giving a clear indication of what I will do until I'm happy with the product and the price)just to allow one to be used against the other just to see what shakes out at the end of the day. I like the fact that APWA has them so nervous. Gives me hope we consumers could end up with a better deal than we got from either side that end up winning the day.
  8. 3brownstars

    3brownstars Member

    In the writings of the Declaration of Independence (I'm sorry I can't quote exactly) when our government no longer funtions in the best intrest of it's citizens, then the citizens have an obligation to do away with the defunct government and build a new and better one. In this case we are speaking of our "union". It's time for a new one.
  9. twnjrspc

    twnjrspc New Member

    Exactly my point! You must agree, that our federal, state, and local governments have failed us for hundreds of years.They are just as, if not more corrupt as the Teamsters. So, should we decertify, and give up our US Citizenship, to form a new government? Hell No! where have you been in the fight to change that?They're taking more of your hard earned money than the Teamsters. However, you just keep electing the same old status quo. You only seek to apply your therory to the Teamsters union. That's quite contradictive isn't it! Unless of course the APWA has an alterior motive? You are not true Unionists. Your goal is merely to decertify and disband the Teamster union members. You all should be ashamed of your dishonest actions, and yet you feel you're above all that.
  10. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    Get real man,the teamsters are on thier way out.
    They went over the line cutting the pension.
    Like a bad ending to the soprano's
  11. JonFrum

    JonFrum Guest

    Please list the history of lies.
  12. twnjrspc

    twnjrspc New Member

    This one vs. the other debate continues. Bottom line is this, there are thousands of reform minded teamsters out there, that on a daily basis are tryiing to educate our fellow UPS'ers as to the numerous issues regarding the corrupt leadership within the Teamsters. Unifying them all,to bring about reform, has been an uphill battle, just as your organizing effort to decertify these same unionized workers will be. In fact, your job will be much harder. The mere fact that the APWA can only present a case of writing on paper, postings on a website, or an answered phone call, will be a hard sell. We have a contract that pays well, holidays, vacations, personals, sick days, overtime rates, seniority rights, etc. etc. But like you said, some people will suck anything up, and just want to be used. So you'll manage to get some to feed from your troft of "Paper Tiger" promises. So BRAVO to you! Just remember this, for those that you don't manage to decertify, will remain Teamsters, and while you'd have everyone believe that the UPS will willingly negotiate this perfect contract, with the APWA's perfect representatives, it's highly unlikely. In fact, it may even come down to the APWA having to strike for all these demands. Now tell me my friend, will you expect those same Teamsters that you have nothing good to say, to honor your picket lines? There is much, much more to all of this than you, or your representaives care to discuss. So, if you were all truly of a unoinized mind, you would realize the importance of having the support of other unions and their members, including us Teamsters:ohmy:
  13. BCFan

    BCFan Active Member

    Tie TDU is NOT defunct as you elude to ..and they do not advocate the distruction of the present system only to prefect a still darn good labor union:wink: BC (not beat child)
  14. twnjrspc

    twnjrspc New Member

    Defunct! Hardly! In fact our membership numbers have risen quite substantially. What's truly interesting, is how none of the APWA supporters would embrace TDU. Hmmm?

    What is Teamsters for a Democratic Union?

    Founded in 1976, Teamsters for a Democratic Union is grassroots, membership organization of Teamsters, working to build a stronger more democratic Teamsters Union. We are truck drivers, dock workers, warehouse workers, production workers , and clericals— every kind of Teamster, and spouses, too. We believe in returning our union to the membership and we are doing it.
    For more than 30 years, TDU has led the fight against organized crime and corruption in our union. TDU won our right to vote for International Union officers and other important democratic reforms, including majority rule on contracts.
    We are proud Teamsters standing up for our rights and the best in our union
    Through our educational programs, Teamsters for a Democratic Union has trained thousands of Teamsters to be more effective unionists. We’ve built a network that links Teamster activists across North America. Together, we have more power to hold our union leaders accountable—and to win the contracts, benefits and representation we deserve.
    We are a democratic organization in which every member has a voice and vote. Our 15-member International Steering Committee was elected in September 2006 for one year. Our Rank & File Convention had 250 representatives present.
    Teamsters for a Democratic Union invites all Teamsters interested in defending our contracts and reforming our union to join us. We do reserve the right to reject membership applications submitted by individuals who are opposed to TDU and its principles.

    TDU History

    How the Reform Movement Has Changed the Teamsters Union (1976-1979)
    [​IMG]In 1976 the Teamsters Union was in big trouble. Union leaders had allowed organized crime to infiltrate the highest levels of the union. Read more.
    Winning the Fight for Democracy(The 1980s)
    [​IMG]The 1980s were a difficult time for working Teamsters. They were years of economic recession, freight industry deregulation, and concessionary bargaining. Read more.
    Rebuilding Teamster Power(1991-1997)
    [​IMG]Rank-and-file Teamsters won the right to vote for top Teamster officers after a decade-long fight led by TDU. In the 1990s members used that right to elect new leaders and change our union’s direction. Read more.
    The Fight to Save Our Union(1998-2001)
    [​IMG]After the UPS strike victory in 1997, the Teamsters stood at the forefront of the American labor movement. But there were tough times ahead. The coming years would see Ron Carey’s reform efforts as IBT President ended and the restoration of old-guard leadership at the IBT. Read more.
    2006 Teamster Election Archive
    [​IMG]Reports and stories on the 2006 Teamster Election and the organizing efforts of Teamster members to elect the Tom L Strong Contracts, Good Pensions Slate. Visit the archive.

    But the APWA can't find any good within the Teamsters.
  15. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    I for one am glad that tdu is out there as a watchdog and to hold our leaders accountable. However tdu will point out all the wrongs within the teamsters which is fine, however tdu rarely reports the good thats also done. I feel if you would put in as much of a positve attitude towards rebuiding this once great union it would go alot farther then all the negatives. Now i have alot of good friends that belong to the tdu and they all mean well, however they understand my stance, hell i am actually planning on attending the tdu convention here in nov to voice my concerns on these issues.
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    You lost that argument when Carey walked for personal glory and screwed teamsters out of the opportunity to discuss the pension issue and get if fixed 10 years ago.
  17. Cole

    Cole New Member

    TDU backed Carey out against the others running, but Carey was not a member of TDU.

    TDU, is and has been the best source at getting info to members, and eduacating them, as well as winning many rights that we have. I knew many of them, and to my discredit have lost touch since Hoffa got in office.

    I do see they are still getting info out there, and naturally they would be against breaking away from the Teamsters as they have fought to reform it for yrs. but it is not so easy, but like the energizer bunny they keep going. They taught me alot many yrs ago when my local wouldn't, and I will always be indebted to them for it.

    Honestly win lose or draw, the APWA is giving much needed heat in the seat of the Teamsters, many of who need it bad.
  18. twnjrspc

    twnjrspc New Member

    As per usual, you avoided the argument, and took it in another direction. Standard proceedure for management. :ohmy: