Gov healthcare

[wkmac]

Hans Hoppe, same place Hitler came from, he is nuts !
Eliminate Food and Drug, so next time there won't be a samonella scare, or hambuger disease, etc.. since no longer anyone is to control that. Not even the food processing plants ! ( no more food inspectors)
Have new drugs come out daily, with no prior testing... maybe invent the superpill, that you all die of. (Al Q can open up a pharmacy there.)

Don't think so !
Same with getting rid of all medical licences and regulations... Go back to witchdoctors. Sure, can see that being a better system then you have, NOT !

But, as far as insurers go, that artical was dead right on.
They need competition.
Besides, Insurance companies make a fortune and are gangsters in my opinion.
Everyone has dealt with them in one form or another.. car accident, home insurance, etc.
We get ripped off.
Good thing you don't see the paper work doctors have to go thru, to get thier money from insurance companies. A lot of times it's denied, for some reason or another, and they need to fill out more paperwork, to finally receive thier money.

Anyways, I do hope you agree to some new system, that won't go bankrupt like the current one will, if nothing is done.

Hey Klein, just for you I'm gonna post a photo of me and from here on out when you see, talk with or think of me in any way, this pic will give you a true mental image of what I really am. You ready? Here it comes!

 

[av8torntn]

. He even admitted and the facts seem to support that his talk was all BS and that he was playing a game of political chicken and got called on his bluff. A paranoid, murderous idiot to his own, he was that but I see no threat in him to the United States.

"

From that article. Not to get into a war debate on a healthcare thread but if you are going to claim what he admitted as "facts" then he clearly was going to restart his weapons programs and since his troops constantly attacked US forces he clearly had the desire to use what weapons he had against our nation.

"that eventually Iraq would have to reconstitute its weapons to deal with that threat if it could not reach a security agreement with the United States"

 

[av8torntn]

How did we get social security when it seems so contary to the organic constitution? Hmmmmm! ILO in 1934', Social Security Act in 1935' but did you know that this act passed in August of 1935' was the 2nd version as the first was overturned by SCOTUS in May of 1935'? You see gov't likes to float and test ideas so in 1934' our good gov't passed a social security act over those workers only who engaged in Interstate transportation, there's the commerce clause again, and in the case of Railroad Retirement Board v Alton R. Co. 295 U.S. 330, 368, 55 S.Ct. 758, 771 (1935).

"

Yes I knew. I also find it interesting how much power the people are willing to give the government through the commerce clause yet if we demanded that our government have such a broad interpertation of the equal protection clause we would not many of these wasteful programs.

Example if 85% are happy with their healthcare and were faced with paying equal amounts to the government to "change" the system do you really think anyone would stand for this? It is much easier to punish the minorty with higher taxes.

One thing I do agree with you is that we are stuck with medicare which is a very good reason all by itself to stand up to the government and stop this destruction of our freedoms.

 

[island1fox]

Health care secretary announced on Sunday talk shows that White House will most probably compromise ------[HE HAS READ THE POLLS} and drop the public option to get bi-partisan reform of the insurance companies ------FEEL THE HEAT ---SEE THE LIGHT.
P.S.
Klien what was interesting at the start --has become rather boring.
You seem OBSESSED with the U.S. ???? ARE YOU A WANNABE AMERICAN or has your JEALOUSY turned to hate ? You should take care ---THE CANADIAN "CONTENT POLICE" might investigate you ----that is the group in Canada that will NOT ALLOW you to have too much American CONTENT -------can't you find a Canadian web site that deals with such matters or maybe the "LANGUAGE POLICE IN Quebec ---or the fact that every other year Quebec is looking to SEPERATE FROM CANADA --become part of the U.S..----BUT PLEASE ---MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THEM.

 

[klein]

Example if 85% are happy with their healthcare and were faced with paying equal amounts to the government to "change" the system do you really think anyone would stand for this? It is much easier to punish the minorty with higher taxes.

Good call, 83% are happy with the current healthcare. Just reading this BBC article. Very interessting :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8164210.stm

 

[island1fox]

kLEIN,
P.S.
I am sure that you do not realize that hundreds if not thousands of Canadian citizens come to the U.S. every year for Health treatment . Also leaders from around the ENTIRE WORLD INCLUDING Canada ---have come here-----Can anyone LUCIEN BOUCHARD ??????
I HAVE A GREAT IDEA --SINCE Canada accepts all of the People from India AND Pakistan with their entire families for FREE healthcare ----all of our "non insured" can go to Canada for their healthcare !

 

[klein]

Island, I looked that up before, googled it.... it's a handful of Canadians going to the US every year, thats it.
And you do need to be a citizen, or landed immigrant to receive free healthcare here.

Our system isn't foolproof or the best, but it works for us.
You lived here for 5 years, how many co workers , friends, family, neighbors, have you met, going to the states for healthcare ?
I lived here all my life, except for 14 years in Germany, I don't know anyone personally.
LUcien Bouchard, he may have went, to try a magic solution, but it didn't work. He past away soon, afterwards, anyways.
NO loss (score Canada 1 - Quebec 0 ) LOL

Do you know the city of Calgary (where I also lived for 14 years) has over 100.000 americans living in it. When they get sick, they don't even go back for medicare, thier insurance wants them (probably) to get treated here, since it's half the price.

 

[wkmac]

Yes I knew. I also find it interesting how much power the people are willing to give the government through the commerce clause yet if we demanded that our government have such a broad interpertation of the equal protection clause we would not many of these wasteful programs.

Amen to that!

Example if 85% are happy with their healthcare and were faced with paying equal amounts to the government to "change" the system do you really think anyone would stand for this? It is much easier to punish the minorty with higher taxes.

What I find interesting about people who are for big gov't also many times advocate the importance of individual freedom and even go so far as to condemn any form of slavery. Yet when they propose such grand schemes is there ever any consideration of doing something that is voluntary or even allowing all possible options on the table so that the best cream rises to the top. Who knows, the gov't idea in a fair, equal and open market place just might be the one that shines in the end. Right now there is no free market in this country and hasn't been for well over 100 years at best if not longer. Funny how something that really doesn't exist is always given the blame for what goes bad in the mercantilist/corporatist/socialist (ie fascist) system. But then hiding behind a falsehood is the best way to not be seen at all!

One thing I do agree with you is that we are stuck with medicare which is a very good reason all by itself to stand up to the government and stop this destruction of our freedoms.

IMO we are far beyond the point of treating the federal gov't like a cafeteria and only picking those foods we like. Fact is, those foods are also cooked from the same pot and have become poisoned themselves. Consuming even the parts you like still transmits the disease and then what might have been a healthy body in time becomes a diseased and wasted.

I guess where we part company is you want to still try and keep the restaurant open and I've gone home and started growing my own garden if you will! I guess the irony is that we are both helping each other, it's just I'm helping more! Care for a fresh "HOMEGROWN" tomato?



And to whom or any that may read my posts, I am a strong adherant to the Non-Agression principle so that is my caveat to those who might take my words into a direction not nor never intented!

 

[tieguy]

IMO we are far beyond the point of treating the federal gov't like a cafeteria and only picking those foods we like. Fact is, those foods are also cooked from the same pot and have become poisoned themselves. Consuming even the parts you like still transmits the disease and then what might have been a healthy body in time becomes a diseased and wasted.

I guess where we part company is you want to still try and keep the restaurant open and I've gone home and started growing my own garden if you will! I guess the irony is that we are both helping each other, it's just I'm helping more! Care for a fresh "HOMEGROWN" tomato?



And to whom or any that may read my posts, I am a strong adherant to the Non-Agression principle so that is my caveat to those who might take my words into a direction not nor never intented!

nice use of the blue font.

I'm surprised posters don't do it more often to seperate their responses from whom they're quoting

 

[wkmac]

Good call, 83% are happy with the current healthcare. Just reading this BBC article. Very interessting :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8164210.stm

I think much of this healthcare thing comes down to having the "devil you know rather than the devil you don't!"

Because there is so many backroom deals and behind the scene agreements, people expecting a few pages long law were given what amount in size to a full Bible Commentary that's also about as hard to understand in layman's terms. Even many Congressman to their credit admitted it was way to much to read in such short order. The Obama adminstration and the democrat Congress just didn't have the details for whatever reason (I have my opinion obviously) and I'm no fool to believe the republicans are opposing out of some higher principled calling either.

But all that aside, I do believe a whole lot of these Townhall folks who are asking and showing concern are doing so for the reason that so little detail about the healthcare plan was ever laid out. It was a "here it is, we're gonna pass it right now so just trust us!"

Remember, these are the same folks who were told by previous adminstrations to "trust us" and finally we're seeing signs of people who are standing up and telling these elected officials, "sorry scumbag, this ain't my first rodeo!"

 

[wkmac]

nice use of the blue font.

I'm surprised posters don't do it more often to seperate their responses from whom they're quoting

You taking credit for starting a pop culture icon?


I can see your point but I can handle people doing it different ways. you know kinda like sex!

 

[1989]

I was just curious just how does military healthcare work. Say one is discharged with an illness or disease. Are they still covered under the military plan? If so, how long, for life? Any info would be helpful.

 

[tieguy]

You taking credit for starting a pop culture icon?


I can see your point but I can handle people doing it different ways. you know kinda like sex!

I've never thought of it that way before. Let me go find the misses.

 

[av8torntn]

I was just curious just how does military healthcare work. Say one is discharged with an illness or disease. Are they still covered under the military plan? If so, how long, for life? Any info would be helpful.

You would end up eventually in the VA healthcare system. From personal experience not some place you want to be.

 

[1989]

You would end up eventually in the VA healthcare system. From personal experience not some place you want to be.

Would they cover you for life?

 

[TechGrrl]

$2400 a year for healthcare would more than triple what I pay out of pocket every year now with 4 kids and a wife with lupus.

And under the current system, if you were to lose your job for any reason, it would be impossible for you to purchase insurance at any price because of your wife. Once your COBRA ran out, that would be it. That's one of the things we need to change. Insurance companies weed out people who are likely to have claims.

Now, I am not suggesting that insurance companies cover everyone without regard to risks. But rigging the risk pools that only people who are not at risk is unfair. This is one reason most of the reform plans call for requiring universal signup: you need to create risk pools with a profile that includes younger, healthier people.

A fundamental difference between health risk pools and other insurance risk pools is that by and large, the individual has very little control over whether they will need the insurance. We can debate unhealthy lifestyles into infinity, but IN GENERAL, people can be hit by very expensive diseases and accidents through no fault of their own, no matter how young and healthy they are. But statistically, a large enough population will allow for accurate acturial analysis of what the payouts will be, and so the premiums can be forecast with some confidence. That's why employer-based insurance works for large companies (big enough risk pool) and not for small companies. (Risk pool too small not to be affected by one bad roll of the dice.)

Medical science cannot predict with any certainty who will or will not develop a particular disease. Even diseases with apparent links to family genetics don't hit EVERY member of a family, in general. But the insurance companies are being more and more agressive about weeding out even small possibilities, in the markets where they can. Like the individual and small company market. In most places, there is no true competition: one or two large conglomerates divvy up the market between them, and fight to cherry pick those least likely to file claims. The large employers have enough clout to negotiate, or have enough employees to self-insure and simply pay the comglomerate for administrative services.

 

[diesel96]

I think much of this healthcare thing comes down to having the "devil you know rather than the devil you don't!"

Because there is so many backroom deals and behind the scene agreements, people expecting a few pages long law were given what amount in size to a full Bible Commentary that's also about as hard to understand in layman's terms. Even many Congressman to their credit admitted it was way to much to read in such short order. The Obama adminstration and the democrat Congress just didn't have the details for whatever reason (I have my opinion obviously) and I'm no fool to believe the republicans are opposing out of some higher principled calling either.

But all that aside, I do believe a whole lot of these Townhall folks who are asking and showing concern are doing so for the reason that so little detail about the healthcare plan was ever laid out. It was a "here it is, we're gonna pass it right now so just trust us!"

Remember, these are the same folks who were told by previous adminstrations to "trust us" and finally we're seeing signs of people who are standing up and telling these elected officials, "sorry scumbag, this ain't my first rodeo!"

There may be someTownhall folks who show concern and are REPECTFUL, epesically at the Presidential townhall meeting, and may not trust what the Whitehouse proposes, but you have to admit, change the scenery, and many of these boisetress Townhall folks at Congressional Townhall meetings start spewing mis-information and verbal garbage word for word that comes from the pie holes of Conservative talk radio/blogs, Fox, and even Rep Iowa Senators and ex-Gov's from Alaska. At least, if these folks are going to lash out at a public official, you better have your facts and concerns checked and verified by someone smarter than you, otherwise you'll look like another American Idiot....BTW, with all the potentially loose cannons in the protest confines, must your NH libertarian friend bring a gun to a Presidential townhall demonstration. Still trying to figure that one out... I know, I know... We should trust him like we trust the gov't ?...lol

PS Don't flame me to hard Satan...I still value your opinion.

 

[av8torntn]

Would they cover you for life?

What the government gives you they can also take away.

 

[tieguy]

There may be someTownhall folks who show concern and are REPECTFUL, epesically at the Presidential townhall meeting, and may not trust what the Whitehouse proposes, but you have to admit, change the scenery, and many of these boisetress Townhall folks at Congressional Townhall meetings start spewing mis-information and verbal garbage word for word that comes from the pie holes of Conservative talk radio/blogs, Fox, and even Rep Iowa Senators and ex-Gov's from Alaska. At least, if these folks are going to lash out at a public official, you better have your facts and concerns checked and verified by someone smarter than you, otherwise you'll look like another American Idiot....BTW, with all the potentially loose cannons in the protest confines, must your NH libertarian friend bring a gun to a Presidential townhall demonstration. Still trying to figure that one out... I know, I know... We should trust him like we trust the gov't ?...lol

Democrats continue to try to point at the occasional nut job wearing a gun to try to ignore the overall message that is coming from the majority.

congressional leaders everywhere are catching a lot of concern from the public who don't want them tinkering with their health care.

Nothing at this point is misinformation because there simply is not single plan on the table that we have to vote for or against. Until then the voting public will continue to poster for those things they do or do not want to see.

Something as radical as denying death counseling makes people uneasy. when the language is there for death counseling then its very easy to take a small leap to the idea that the medical care you need when elderly may be denied you.

Obama claiming he has the full support of AARP again makes people uneasy. If its that easy to catch him in a lie then what else is he lying about?

I'm really enjoying all this. the last time the democrats tried this by implementing clinton care they energized the republican party and helped bring in a republican majority in congress that help lead us to some very good economic years.

Your leadership could not have bungled this issue any worse then what they have done so far. Keep denying the concerns as being generated by the fringe element and bring on some much needed change in congress. Please.

 

[wkmac]

I've never thought of it that way before. Let me go find the misses.

LOL!