Grievance question on sup working

[dillweed]

This is new to me. I've never filed grievances on sups working until lately when they have cut our hours and want the same numbers.

I filed a small one about a month ago and have heard that I won it and will be receiving pmnt. Last week I watched a pt sup work over two hours in my area. Filed a two hour grievance and now the center manager wants to speak to me about it in his office.

Union rep will certainly attend but I have nothing to say. It's written in black and white, right on the form. I included all the things the sup was doing while racking up the hours.

In the past I've asked the sups if they are training, if not, do they have an hourly to do the work. This annoyed some slackers who needed constant help so management told me to keep still. Union suggests I do ask the sup if he can get hourly help but I worked as directed and didn't say a thing.

Now, what could be going on? Is he going to try and cram me into a corner about the amount of time? Is he going to drum up witnesses who say I'm not telling the truth? Has anyone gone through this and what sort of game should I expect from this? Thanks to anyone who has gone through it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

He may simply be using this meeting as a way to intimidate you. Stick to your guns knowing that you are now on their radar. Do the job in the professional manner that you always do and you will soon fall off of their radar in favor of someone else.

 

[Jones]

He might just want to talk you out of filing the grievance by telling you that he has dealt harshly with the sup in question and that it won't happen again. I've heard that one before.

The other approaches you mentioned are also possibilities.

 

[dillweed]

Thanks upstate and jones for your replies. This particular sup is well known to work, seems he's a nervous sort who just wants to get the work done. My opinion is that they should slow the flow to a manageable rate.

This sup had a long face last week and mentioned a "meeting" he is to have Monday. I've been battling emotions because he's a good sup with common sense and fairness to all. However, this is not personal, it's pure business.

Upstate, I've been trying to get OFF the radar ever since they put me on a heavier job and began the harassment of not getting the numbers they want. They've been pushing all of us to the point where tempers flare and hourlies are squabbling with other hourlies as to who is doing enough and who isn't. I feel the grievances are enlarging the target on my back.

If they do force me into the office all I can do is say the details are on the grievance form and I have nothing more to say. Being on the defense is so tiring.

 

[Thekid25]

Hey brother, Me and my twin had a similar meeting with a manager and he was saying the grievances were in "excess" and crap like that or your center manager might pull "So you watched him work for 2 hours straight? he's a good sup he wouldn't do that." He might try to say you watched him work for two hours without you yourself working. It's all bs but you just gotta play the game and stick to your guns. PM me if you have any questions let me know what happens.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Dillweed ( and anyone reading !)

If you file a grievance, it's best to first request that the supervisor in question, at the time of incident, get help for staffing to releive him of doing bargaining unit work. Kindly remind him/her that you will file for all hours worked if it is not remedied. Usually this works and they'll get on the radio and find someone. If not, then you can go ahead and file. This is not a passive-aggressive approach that will at least give both sides some respect.

If you watch the supervisor work - then file without requesting the supervisor stops working, or giving any type of warning or consideration this will cause disrespect waves in the operation. this is my experience anyway.

My style is: I try to at least give fairness, because it's possible that several union guys booked off or whatever reason that caused staffing issues for a period of time, even if the volume is down. Obviously two hours sounds like friend/T sup running the p/t sup into the ground,- rather than book-offs - because he can to make numbers, but I wasn't there so I don't know.

Anyway regardless of approach, the center manager would likely want to either
(1) review your employee file and start threatening warnings for previous infractions (2) ask , to reduce the hours work to under two hours , because two or more equals an automatic four hours (3) give you hell, how dare you, etc etc

and a few other less-likely scenerios .....

anyway, if its (1), make sure you have that steward present. and (2) the center manager will find a steward for

Good luck, and make those hours even if they're cheating them from you. Go about it your way, just giving some advice from having filed and won before.

 

[Bsullivan]

Hey I've had the same meeting. I was told by the day sort manager that my grievances were okay when i first started filing them. Then he said they're too excessive and that I couldn't have been telling the truth because he said I had no integrity. Basically they'll bring you up to the office and ask you if your telling the truth and just stick to your story thats what I did and got them settled. And make sure you got a union rep.

 

[SuperSup]

Perhaps the sup was doing everything possible to make sure the customer got the service they paid for. You remember the customer? The reason you have a job?

 

[StopCount]

Perhaps the sup was doing everything possible to make sure the customer got the service they paid for. You remember the customer? The reason you have a job?

If you disagree with the policies, perhaps another company has policies to your liking.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

If you disagree with the policies, perhaps another company has policies to your liking.

For the win.

 

[dillweed]

Perhaps the sup was doing everything possible to make sure the customer got the service they paid for. You remember the customer? The reason you have a job?

Yep, I have a job but my checks are down $60/week due to the up-the-butt flow they're pushing. Same numbers, less hours. I feel the sup was stealing MY time plus that of other hourlies.

Management agreed to the contract, let them follow it.

 

[dillweed]

Dillweed ( and anyone reading !)

If you file a grievance, it's best to first request that the supervisor in question, at the time of incident, get help for staffing to releive him of doing bargaining unit work. Kindly remind him/her that you will file for all hours worked if it is not remedied. Usually this works and they'll get on the radio and find someone. If not, then you can go ahead and file. This is not a passive-aggressive approach that will at least give both sides some respect.

If you watch the supervisor work - then file without requesting the supervisor stops working, or giving any type of warning or consideration this will cause disrespect waves in the operation. this is my experience anyway....

Thanks, Ido but re-read my first post. I have always asked if they are training or have another hourly but management themselves told me to stay quiet. One of the workers in my area seems to need help on a constant basis. This person is not overloaded, just doesn't like to work. It got to where, when I asked if they were training, the hourly took it personally so I was told not to say a word at the time but to tell ft sup later. BS to that. They know exactly what's going on in that building. They just want their cake and mine too.

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

[
Thanks, Ido but re-read my first post. I have always asked if they are training or have another hourly but management themselves told me to stay quiet. One of the workers in my area seems to need help on a constant basis. This person is not overloaded, just doesn't like to work. It got to where, when I asked if they were training, the hourly took it personally so I was told not to say a word at the time but to tell ft sup later. BS to that. They know exactly what's going on in that building. They just want their cake and mine too.

Yeah, I didn't quite "get it" but understand now. YOu have a slacker in your area and a sup is jumping in and helping for long periods.

Managements views: Why don't you scorn the person not doing his/her job instead of the sup helping?

I personally wouldn't back down. If the person doesn't do their job and clearly doesn't try, I would make it known to the supervisor that you do not have any particular vendetta against him but the person he's helping. Also make it known to the slacker that they suck and make you look too good.

Maybe you should have a shop steward to come over and witness it. There's alot of things wrong with that picture you painted. A underachiever hourly and a sup working.

I have a good steward on speed dial personally in case there's something imminent that needs to be addressed. Maybe that's not a bad idea for you.

 

[gandydancer]

National Master, Article 3, Section 7

(a) The Employer agrees that the function of supervisors is the supervision of Employees and not the performance of the work of the employees they supervise...

(b) When additional employees are necessary to complete the Employer’s operations on any shift or within any classification, the supervisor shall exhaust all established local practices to first use bargaining unit employees including where applicable, double shifting, early call-in, and overtime.

(d) If it is determined at any step of the grievance and/or arbitration procedure that this Section, or a “supervisor working” provision in a Supplement, Rider or Addendum, has been violated, the aggrieved employee will be paid as follows: (i) if the actual hours worked by the supervisor amounts to two (2) hours or less, the aggrieved employee will be paid for the actual hours worked by the supervisor at the rate of one and one-half (1 ½) double times the employee’s rate of pay at the time of the incident; or (ii) if the supervisor works more than two (2) hours, the aggrieved employee shall be paid four (4) hours at straight time or actual hours worked at one and one-half (1 ½) double times the employee’s rate of pay at the time of the incident, whichever is greater. If no aggrieved employee can be identified, the payment will be made to the grievant. Such remedy shall be in addition to any other remedies sought by the Union in the appropriate grievance procedure.

I gather you know this. Your manager knows this too -- he just doesn't think he has to honor the contract. Don't worry about the meeting. I've had plenty, no big deal. You're right, he's wrong, just be polite and don't back down. If he wants his supe to work paying you the money is just a cost of his doing business that way.

 

[705red]

Perhaps the sup was doing everything possible to make sure the customer got the service they paid for. You remember the customer? The reason you have a job?

So its ok to take money out of the employees pocket who is loading the packages in so that the drivers that see the customer can deliver them so that you can cash your check monthly! Makes perfect sense if you never went to school to learn something!

 

[dillweed]

Thanks all!
Ido - I've already told the slacker he sucks. Didn't go over well.
Union very much dislikes problems between hourlies. The rule is to somehow blame management and then go after them. " be polite and don't back down" Thanks, I needed that and will do so.

.

 

[dillweed]

btw, today came and went with no mention. Maybe they found a more offending fish to fry.

 

[MinnesotaZepher]

understand the contract, understand the grievence process, but the whole system where I feel like there are two different companies working at UPS..Thats what I hate

 

[StopCount]

National Master, Article 3, Section 7

(a) The Employer agrees that the function of supervisors is the supervision of Employees and not the performance of the work of the employees they supervise...

(b) When additional employees are necessary to complete the Employer’s operations on any shift or within any classification, the supervisor shall exhaust all established local practices to first use bargaining unit employees including where applicable, double shifting, early call-in, and overtime.

(d) If it is determined at any step of the grievance and/or arbitration procedure that this Section, or a “supervisor working” provision in a Supplement, Rider or Addendum, has been violated, the aggrieved employee will be paid as follows: (i) if the actual hours worked by the supervisor amounts to two (2) hours or less, the aggrieved employee will be paid for the actual hours worked by the supervisor at the rate of one and one-half (1 ½) double times the employee’s rate of pay at the time of the incident; or (ii) if the supervisor works more than two (2) hours, the aggrieved employee shall be paid four (4) hours at straight time or actual hours worked at one and one-half (1 ½) double times the employee’s rate of pay at the time of the incident, whichever is greater. If no aggrieved employee can be identified, the payment will be made to the grievant. Such remedy shall be in addition to any other remedies sought by the Union in the appropriate grievance procedure.

You should print that up and hand it to your boss at the meeting :]

 

[tieguy]

Perhaps the sup was doing everything possible to make sure the customer got the service they paid for. You remember the customer? The reason you have a job?

Super this will be good for us.

The supervisor being grieved is weak. He does not hold his people accoutable for doing their job.

The grievance meeting will highlight that the sup and the slacker need to do their jobs. Hopefully the center manager will give them some much needed attention now.