He said, she said Termination

[stevetheupsguy]

I say stick it to'em. That's just me though

Not just you, brotha!

For what it`s worth GB the suspension with time served no back pay has pretty much been the standard operating procedure around here for everything. A varying cross section of drivers with all forms of financial situations have taken the decision and come back to work. What you do is up to you but one thing I would look at is UPS has far deeper pockets when it comes down to getting serious in a matter such as this. You are out $7000? Divide that out for the rest of this year and see what you`d really have to work to make it back. Just an opinion,no more no less.

Great opinion, but, I must disagree. UPS counts on you being filled with fear. That's why the HR meanager has a scowl on their faces all the time. This isn't school, GB, and you didn't do anything wrong. You did what many here are told to do and something that you have continually done. There was no meeting without a signature. Why would you even think twice about letting them rob you?

When I was facing the gun it was a different situation. I did do something wrong, though it was quite funny. Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

[The Other Side]

To you all who keep giving GB advice on fighting for backpay:

There are so many other issues you are not taking into consideration.

First, lets say he's out 11 months (11 months at best waiting for an arbitration) then he loses the case. He's OUT OF A JOB.

Second, lets say after 11 months, he's reinstated, but the arbitor feels the "cause" was justified under the auspices of dishonesty. He would be in a bigger mess. First, he's out the intial 11 months., Second, he returns to work and will be punished the next year. Yes the next year. You see, we earn 1/52 of our total earnings for vacation the next year, and if he worked only a couple of months, his vacation checks for next year will be next to nil....

Easy for you all to tell him to "stand and fight" when YOU have nothing to lose.

Third, depending on his local agreements, his time off would not count towards retirement and he would have to make that time up, so he sez 4 years left, could turn into 6 years left.

Fourth, again, depending on his local agreements, nothing will be contributed to his pension during that time off and if this isnt a part of the backpay agreement, it will be money lost.

There is a bigger box for you all to look outside of.

The best deal at this point in his case is to return to work and minimize the damage already done.

There is too much to lose as I have already stated in earlier posts.

Without working knowledge of all that is involved, you should all refrain from giving "adverse" advice.

Yes, it sucks he was taken out for a nothing offense, I totally agree, however, it happened and now he needs to get back on the clock to protect his future interests.

At this point, no matter how he got there, there is an offer on the table and to turn it down would only make UPS dig in their heels and defend the hill with his "total" work history. (whatever that is) All they have to do is tip the scale ever so slightly in their favor and the arbitor will rule against GB.

GB should get back on the clock, learn the bigger lesson here and finish his career without further incident.

Besides, once he is on the clock, the company and the union would have made an agreement to forgo backpay anyway, and without a written agreement from UPS accepting him back with "prejudice", meaning EXCLUDING him from attempting to collect backpay, he would have no, zero nada options to attempt to collect it.

So, lets not encourage him with something that isnt plausible.

I hope he returns to work and they leave him alone. I also hope he sticks to the methods and never believes a "learn behavior" makes it ok to do on a daily basis.

Good luck GB!

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Just one question guys....if I go back to work (and no I am not a UPS choirboy....I get the job done more effectively than most and that is why I have been able so skirt some issues over the years but I have been known to have a short temper and don't like management folks who don't know what they are talking about and have said so...) do I forfeit the chance to pursue a legal option for getting some money back?..... I am pretty close to being over it, my wife told me this morning she would find me a lawyer if I would talk to him or her.... perhaps.....I have been in accidents and have always reported them....I guess that makes me honest...at least in those instances....really been lucky that financially I am pretty smart (or lucky) and while the $7000.00 hurts, I have been able to keep all my bills up to date......but having said that the funds are shrinking....

 

[cachsux]

Not just you, brotha!

Great opinion, but, I must disagree. UPS counts on you being filled with fear. That's why the HR meanager has a scowl on their faces all the time. This isn't school, GB, and you didn't do anything wrong. You did what many here are told to do and something that you have continually done. There was no meeting without a signature. Why would you even think twice about letting them rob you?

When I was facing the gun it was a different situation. I did do something wrong, though it was quite funny. Good luck in whatever you decide.

I`m not in fear by any stretch of the means. If anything I don`t keep my mouth shut more often. Sometimes it`s more important to save your ammo to help win the war rather than the battle. But I also know when not to get in a peeing contest with someone with a full bladder.

 

[cachsux]

Just one question guys....if I go back to work (and no I am not a UPS choirboy....I get the job done more effectively than most and that is why I have been able so skirt some issues over the years but I have been known to have a short temper and don't like management folks who don't know what they are talking about and have said so...) do I forfeit the chance to pursue a legal option for getting some money back?..... I am pretty close to being over it, my wife told me this morning she would find me a lawyer if I would talk to him or her.... perhaps.....I have been in accidents and have always reported them....I guess that makes me honest...at least in those instances....really been lucky that financially I am pretty smart (or lucky) and while the $7000.00 hurts, I have been able to keep all my bills up to date......but having said that the funds are shrinking....

Unless you sign something waiving any future pursuit then no. But if you want at least talk to a lawyer but get the big picture (no pun) about what the total cost would be versus the reward.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Not just you, brotha!



When I was facing the gun it was a different situation. I did do something wrong, though it was quite funny. Good luck in whatever you decide.

Steve,

You got my curiosity up.... what did you do?

 

[klein]

But I also know when not to get in a peeing contest with someone with a full bladder.
__________________

Been there before (you brought back a very old memory from my college days)
Went sofar, we even messured it once, to see who really has the most !

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Mike23,

I am aiming for 25 and out even though it will be years before I can collect any money (I am not quite 40)..... so yeah I hear the only $200.00 more a month argument....but I will have my Bachelors degree in 13 months and then I will pursue my Masters.....hopefully... after that with any luck the four years will have passed, I will have made 25 years and then my family and I will relocate to NC where I grew up and still have 10 acres of land (take my education start a new line of work, build our new home and think back not so fondly of my days dressed in brown...) but you know what they say "The best laid plans........"

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I`m not in fear by any stretch of the means. If anything I don`t keep my mouth shut more often. Sometimes it`s more important to save your ammo to help win the war rather than the battle. But I also know when not to get in a peeing contest with someone with a full bladder.

Point taken.

Steve,

You got my curiosity up.... what did you do?

I became a member of this lovely Brown Cafe. There's a whole thread of what happened. Start in this http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/safety-compliance.214233/ thread and work your way over to this one http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/where-oh-where-is-my-diad.213286/

Been there before (you brought back a very old memory from my college days)
Went sofar, we even messured it once, to see who really has the most !

Where the heck is City Driver?

 

[Mike23]

Mike23,

I am aiming for 25 and out even though it will be years before I can collect any money (I am not quite 40)..... so yeah I hear the only $200.00 more a month argument....but I will have my Bachelors degree in 13 months and then I will pursue my Masters.....hopefully... after that with any luck the four years will have passed, I will have made 25 years and then my family and I will relocate to NC where I grew up and still have 10 acres of land (take my education start a new line of work, build our new home and think back not so fondly of my days dressed in brown...) but you know what they say "The best laid plans........"

13 months? That's around a year. I'd say try to stick it to UPS and go for it. I think the majority of people settle after being bully browed (although what do I know, I'm still a rookie but it seems like everyone lives in fear of not settling and so do so).

If this isn't your career choice then what do you have to lose? You plan on moving to NC without a positive job guarantee there? Well, what's the difference then of losing the job now or in 4 years?

I have studied some law and I'd say you have a good chance of sticking it to the man. I hate UPS for this crap. You're the lucky one that can get out eventually

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Mike,

I can say that things have changed quite a bit in the 20 plus years I have been with brown.... and there are a lot of folks who have been around a lot longer than I have....without exception all the more senior guys in my building think this company is going to ##$@@ in a hurry........I don't think you can chalk all that up to old age cynicism either.....as long as you are flying under the radar and doing your job with limited interference from managment then the job is great even with the physical and mental stresses.... but my experience tells me that UPS is looking to have a revolving ##$#@ list in which everyone gets to be involved sooner or later......I have no problem leaving UPS, I just want to do it on my terms not managements..........

My wife has her Masters Degree in Nursing so she is pushing 90k a year and as we all know watching the news these days, there is not shortage of jobs in that field.....I like to think I'm a smart guy and have often thought that I have been shortchanging myself all these years pushing the cardboard (no disrespect to anybody out there)......

I used to really love my job..... especially the challenge of getting it done and interacting with my customers... in fact those are two of the few redeeming qualities left doing this...... yet as management seeks to become more intrusive into our everyday working lives, I find the prospects of the next 4 years daunting and immensely frustrating..... the single most attractive feature of our job was the ability to work on your own and out from the pencil pushers immediate vicinity...no longer going to be an option and I feel really bad for the drivers of the future.... my crystal ball tells me that things are not going to be pleasant.....

 

[klein]

I agree Georgia.

If I wanted to be fired...I would have taken my lunch during my run, at a bar... then called them up, pick up the darn half full truck.
I'm drinking here, and don't wanna continue.


friend them.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I agree Georgia.

If I wanted to be fired...I would have taken my lunch during my run, at a bar... then called them up, pick up the darn half full truck.
I'm drinking here, and don't wanna continue.


friend them.

Friend of Bill W., now are ya?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

...I like to think I'm a smart guy and have often thought that I have been shortchanging myself all these years pushing the cardboard (no disrespect to anybody out there)...... [QUOTE]

I read this last night, thought about commenting then decided I would sleep on it first.

I applaud your pursuit of your Bachelor's and Master's degrees. I have my Bachelor's and 9 hours toward a Masters; however, I last stepped foot in a classroom in 1989 so would definitely need to brush up before re-entering the job market. Do I feel underemployed? Absolutely but I can also appreciate the value of a good day's work and am making more with better benefits than I would if I were to use my degree. UPS has provided me with a comfortable lifestyle, a secure retirement and has allowed me to put my children through college. 10 more years and then perhaps I can put my degree to use as I would like to substitute teach (although I don't like kids) but in the mean time I will continue to push cardboard.

Have you decided what you are going to do tomorrow morning?

 

[stevetheupsguy]

...I like to think I'm a smart guy and have often thought that I have been shortchanging myself all these years pushing the cardboard (no disrespect to anybody out there)...... [QUOTE]

I read this last night, thought about commenting then decided I would sleep on it first.

I applaud your pursuit of your Bachelor's and Master's degrees. I have my Bachelor's and 9 hours toward a Masters; however, I last stepped foot in a classroom in 1989 so would definitely need to brush up before re-entering the job market. Do I feel underemployed? Absolutely but I can also appreciate the value of a good day's work and am making more with better benefits than I would if I were to use my degree. UPS has provided me with a comfortable lifestyle, a secure retirement and has allowed me to put my children through college. 10 more years and then perhaps I can put my degree to use as I would like to substitute teach (although I don't like kids) but in the mean time I will continue to push cardboard.

Have you decided what you are going to do tomorrow morning?

LOL, perhaps a little more sleep would help you figure this little dilemma out. I think GB has till Tuesday to figure out what he'll be doing.

 

[Bad Gas!]

I have to agree with The Other Side on this one...Cut your loses, get back on the clock and go from there. You can make 4 more years ,one day at a time but you need 1801 hours this year for a full pension year..The clock is ticking. I wish you the best of luck in this nightmare of an incident..It shouldn't have gone past a slap on the hand or a verbal.....I don't have much faith in the Union to help you.There track record is pretty weak lately in cases (check TDU website).....Once you return, if you are miserable then get out..Your wife's salary gives you great job flexibility to weigh your options.......Misery loves company-come back!

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

I have decided to "cut my losses and make a return"... so bright and early Tuesday morning I will again don my browns and embark on an event filled day I'm sure.... I can only anticipate the ride along that is surely awaiting me as the DM will want to make sure that I have been instructed on the proper methods (this will include the inevitable paperwork of course)....I still find a few things good about our job and I realize that especially in the current job market that using my degree (BA) would not net me a higher paying job (but life is not always about money guys) it is about how much BS are you willing to put up with for that money.... when the scales tip in the wrong direction then other options don't start to look so bad...... I know from personal experience that after about 10 years or so...... you can't see the world outside of UPS.... but it does exist guys.....UPS is all consuming because it really is a lifestyle (sad to say).... this message board is proof of that.... even away from the hub, terminal, center, we are still talking UPS...... on our own time!!!!!!! (I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, I am on here too....so I am not trying to cast judgement on anybody....) Just an observation that is backed up from my own personal experiences...

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You have this bad habit of passing judgement and then trying to backtrack through the use of parentheses.

For example:

This job is beneath me (but no disrespect to anyone out here) or;

You guys need to get a life (but no disrespect to anyone out here)

GB, I hate to break the news to you, but you are no better or worse than anyone either on this forum or at UPS. A lot of us went to college and, for whatever reason, are working here. A driver whom I consider to be the best in my center did not go to college, came from some small hick ass town but has a strong work ethic and takes care of his customers so, for all intents and purposes, your degree is simply a piece of paper on a wall in your house and has no relevance to your current occupation. Please be careful climbing down from your high horse when you go back to work on Tuesday and, yes, I am sure it will be a very long day for you. Have fun.

 

[grgrcr88]

Fourth, again, depending on his local agreements, nothing will be contributed to his pension during that time off and if this isnt a part of the backpay agreement, it will be money lost.

Every case I haveseen where backpay is awarded this also included all benefits, This has nothing to do witht the local agreement, only the decision of the panel.

 

[trickpony1]

GeorgiaBrown-
I waited until you made your decision to offer my opinion.

It is a sad commentary when an internationally known, highly visible, multi billionaire dollar a year, fortune 500 company has to treat their employees like this.

As others have said, a warning letter or maybe 3 days off would have sufficed.

The seed of anger, hate and bitterness has been planted in you. That seed will continue to grow, multiply and mutate for years to come.

I can't speak for you but if it were me and I was on area and I had a question, thought I had a question or wasn't sure if I had a question, I would message in and stand right there until I got a message back detailing what I should do in a particular situation. When I got back to center I would request, with a steward present, both sides of that message and file it.

I know a feeder driver that lost 10 weeks of pay and didn't do anything wrong. He did exactly as instructed.

Don't do anything extra for management OR your customers. Don't get on the truck early and massage your load, don't skip lunch, don't break trace......I don't need to go on.......you get the message.

Try to work through the love-> hate-> indifference sequence......you will live longer.
You loved it as evidenced by clo H to give the customer another day. You hated it as evidenced by the stugging you took. The final step is indifference where you just don't care. The pay is the same.

As others have said....being in atlanta probably didn't help the matter any. Those people don't have anything else to do and have to substantiate their job somehow.

friend these people.