HELP!!!!!!!!!!!In the office every AM!!!!
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Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
1,2,or 3 days does not prove anything.
Those 3 days have no bearing on the following 3 days or the previous 3 days.
Delivering a UPS route is not like delivering a newspaper route where a similar package (a newspaper) is being delivered to the same houses at the same time of day, day in and day out.
Conditions and circumstances in our world can vary greatly from day to day.
SPOHR is nothing more than a "calculated gamble", a bluff to intimidate a driver into submission.
DS
Fenderbender
Same here
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Thank you for yet another well-thought out, insightful post. You have certainly added a lot to the discussion and I know I am a better person for having read this. I look forward to reading your next post.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Very easy to argue. massaging loads, removing splits, on-car delivering/demoing, etc. Infact just a month ago I saw an on-car massaging a load for which he was doing a 3-day ride. Man, that thing was stop-for-stop perfect including lipload and practically NOTHING on the floors.
Yes, obviously there are times when a driver needs to get his/her ass in gear and do the job no matter who is riding along or watching. Then there are other times the work is clearly setup for UPS to make someone a scapegoat and look bad, or to get (harrass) more production out of someone.
If the job, the available work, standards from one employee to another, traffic patterns, delivery points had any consistency from person to person, route to route, stop for stop, yes a 3 day ride could be very convincing evidence. That is, "generally", not reality.
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Such behavior would be a very clear-cut Art. 37 grievance for over-supervision and harrassment. And it demonstrates the importance of keeping a daily journal if you are being pressured over production.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Right. The concerning part is someone who was a newer driver and did not know better. Most people know the tricks, by now.
dudebro
Well-Known Member
Honestly, you have to have done both jobs to say that. Take this for what it's worth, when you pull a route and then look at the route on paper you would SWEAR the numbers aren't whats there, because they FEEL different. That doesn't make the FEELING correct in most cases, the reports don't lie and what's there is what's there.
The thing is, barring the relatively rare instances of outright cheating, routes ARE very consistent. There are numerous stories of customers setting their watch by the arrival of the UPS guy, and the same guy who tells you the route is never the same can always tell you (if he or she is honest) whether they're running "behind" or "ahead" on any given day.
The route is actually very consistent if it's a base route (the county split route where the PDS puts everything that doesn't fit notwithstanding).
Dragon
Package Center Manager
Yes, obviously there are times when a driver needs to get his/her ass in gear and do the job no matter who is riding along or watching. Then there are other times the work is clearly setup for UPS to make someone a scapegoat and look bad, or to get (harrass) more production out of someone.
Outstanding statements for both sides.
Outstanding statements for both sides.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
There is a lot of confusion as to what the AM time does or does not do to your day.
The AM sort is charged with any time over 10 hundredths. That is about 6 minutes. That is the time that is allowed for the driver to get to his car, do his pretrip, and leave. It assumes that the preload has dont its job, and has your truck ready to leave.
Past that 6 minutes, or 10 minutes as some of you have posted if that is what you get in your area, the preload is charged with that time. So if you have 100 drivers that are in the building for an additional half hour, that is 50 hours added to the preload time. It kills their numbers, and we sure cant have that, now can we.
So, instead of killing the preload, they opt to kill the driver. That additional time will now have you over your planed day by a half hour before you even leave the building. Do you understand that? By putting that time to your on road time, they already know you will be over allowed by a half hour if you deliver as planned.
It is also dishonest. If you do other things during your day, like they ask you to do on the am time, you can and will be fired. In our center, we have also had to deal with drivers that had an accident out on road, but before they left the building, at least according to the diad.
Honesty in reporting what is. UPS has a real problem with that type of honesty or integrity. I find it appalling that a company that prides itself on its honesty would first tell a driver to be dishonest about the time he left the building, then take action on that employee when he is over allowed on road the same day.
Remember, numbers to UPS is a game which they like to play. Fudging with integrity and honesty is not a game, and has serious repercussions.
d
The AM sort is charged with any time over 10 hundredths. That is about 6 minutes. That is the time that is allowed for the driver to get to his car, do his pretrip, and leave. It assumes that the preload has dont its job, and has your truck ready to leave.
Past that 6 minutes, or 10 minutes as some of you have posted if that is what you get in your area, the preload is charged with that time. So if you have 100 drivers that are in the building for an additional half hour, that is 50 hours added to the preload time. It kills their numbers, and we sure cant have that, now can we.
So, instead of killing the preload, they opt to kill the driver. That additional time will now have you over your planed day by a half hour before you even leave the building. Do you understand that? By putting that time to your on road time, they already know you will be over allowed by a half hour if you deliver as planned.
It is also dishonest. If you do other things during your day, like they ask you to do on the am time, you can and will be fired. In our center, we have also had to deal with drivers that had an accident out on road, but before they left the building, at least according to the diad.
Honesty in reporting what is. UPS has a real problem with that type of honesty or integrity. I find it appalling that a company that prides itself on its honesty would first tell a driver to be dishonest about the time he left the building, then take action on that employee when he is over allowed on road the same day.
There is a difference between cant and what you posted. You can use it. Make them change it. That way, they are the ones that are being dishonest, not you. Also, if they harass you on production, but yet they have changed your time card on a daily basis, you think they will ever win if they push it?
Remember, numbers to UPS is a game which they like to play. Fudging with integrity and honesty is not a game, and has serious repercussions.
d
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
I'd like to add to what Danny just posted, that when a Supe makes an adjustment to your time card or diad record there is an electronic "footprint" attached to it. So as he said, let them make the dishonest adjustments. This will further your case if things go awry and put the questions back on the rightful parties. While it's true we must work as directed, there are three notable exceptions. When a directive is unsafe, illegal, or immoral. Don't let them take your integrity just because they sold theirs.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
You probably have far more experience than I, and you make good points.
However, from what I see in our center ( 50 drivers ), none of the routes are consistent with the add/cut (splits) constantly being shifted around along with the varying dispatch of airs day to day.
Remember, in math/ science, the slightest perturbation in a modeled computer environment (in this case a modeled route or a "plan") affects the outcome of everything else beyond and can make a tiny shift in pattern a wholesale change by the time the model, or real world, has run course. The problem is, the UPS "model" does not care about any of this. The 3 day ride is simply an old, stone map - while the real world is a fluid, dynamc thing that is not based on deterministic initializations..
Chaos theory, butterfly effect...we've discussed it before on here, in basics.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Sleeve
You ever had a day that the packages seemed like they just fell off the truck. Never touched your two wheeler? Where by lunch, you were so far ahead, you were 20-30 stops ahead of normal? And hardly broke a sweat?
Compare that to days where you are 30 stops behind normal by lunch, struggled with every delivery, had to use the two wheeler to pull deliveries up stairs, and the list goes on and on?
Those days are common. But usually, the routes are pretty consistent day after day. And its that consistency that UPS is looking for. If you consistently have bad days, they want to know why. Someone that is consistently a half hour over might have problems with methods, or the study might have been off. But someone that is over 2-3 hours each day, there are more serious problems.
But the addition of AM time to the problem is never ever a good thing for a driver that already has problems not being over allowed.
d
You ever had a day that the packages seemed like they just fell off the truck. Never touched your two wheeler? Where by lunch, you were so far ahead, you were 20-30 stops ahead of normal? And hardly broke a sweat?
Compare that to days where you are 30 stops behind normal by lunch, struggled with every delivery, had to use the two wheeler to pull deliveries up stairs, and the list goes on and on?
Those days are common. But usually, the routes are pretty consistent day after day. And its that consistency that UPS is looking for. If you consistently have bad days, they want to know why. Someone that is consistently a half hour over might have problems with methods, or the study might have been off. But someone that is over 2-3 hours each day, there are more serious problems.
But the addition of AM time to the problem is never ever a good thing for a driver that already has problems not being over allowed.
d
UnconTROLLed
perfection
right- also, this is a thread about AM time, didn't mean to hijack it. heh
We had a few days, at least one was a Saturday, instructed to put lv time as 10 minutes after punch-in, despite waiting around for 30 minutes in bldg for air. Is that an integrity issue?
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
IT would be for me. Your time card is your bill to UPS. I know that there are those that disagree, but the accuracy of your time card is important.
In this day of computer followup, you want to explain to an LP guy why you punched left building at 9, and you did not get to your first delivery stop until 10. Now, its only a half hour drive to your first stop. What did you do for that extra half hour on road? After all, you and every other lemming punched out at 9, but did not leave until 9:30. But since it is four weeks from now, are you really gonna remember? And if you do remember, how can you prove it when your time card says something else?
Oh, whats that? You falsified your time left building? Really???? You want to tell an LP guy that you falsified your time card?
So you decide. Keep your integrity, let them worry about proper coding, and time card changes. You do the right thing, day in, day out. Then, no matter what, your integrity will always be there.
d
In this day of computer followup, you want to explain to an LP guy why you punched left building at 9, and you did not get to your first delivery stop until 10. Now, its only a half hour drive to your first stop. What did you do for that extra half hour on road? After all, you and every other lemming punched out at 9, but did not leave until 9:30. But since it is four weeks from now, are you really gonna remember? And if you do remember, how can you prove it when your time card says something else?
Oh, whats that? You falsified your time left building? Really???? You want to tell an LP guy that you falsified your time card?
So you decide. Keep your integrity, let them worry about proper coding, and time card changes. You do the right thing, day in, day out. Then, no matter what, your integrity will always be there.
d
When was the last time you had a time study done on your buildings areas? It all goes against your over/under alotted time. Specifically ask in the morning what they want it coded in the DIAD for the sort down wait time!! DO NOT falsify your businees Document( timecard ) to the company. That is dishonesty.....Brown as a whole is nothing but the utmost integrity filled company. ( cough cough )
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
It is important to remember that Loss Prevention is a completely seperate entity from the on road management team.
Any "special understanding" that a driver might have with his immediate supervisor regarding fudging on his AM time, prerecording commit packages prior to 10:30, recording business closures outside the 12:00-1:00 window or using "closed" or "ECON" to hide missed stops goes right out the window the moment Loss Prevention gets involved in the situation.
At that point, it will be the drivers word against the supervisors.....and since the driver is the one who actually typed in the false data it is the driver who is going to be left without a chair when the music stops.
Any driver who currently has such a "special understanding" with his supervisor needs to ask himself if he truly believes that his supervisor will step up and do the right thing once LP is looking to put someone's head on a plate for falsifying records.
Over the years I have had sups tell me to "make sure you only have 10 minutes of AM time" or "code this out as an approved AM meeting" when I am delayed getting out of the building. My response is always the same...that I will enter anything they want in the DIAD as long as they first put it in writing that I am being instructed to falsify a record. The funny thing is that no one has ever taken me up on that offer. I wonder why?
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
And on a related note...since my building has Telematics, why is it even necessary to enter a "left building" time anyway? You would think that the DIAD and GPS could be set up to record this automatically the moment that the package car exits the gate. Or, if having a make-believe number show up on some report is truly that important, why not just program the DIAD to automatically show 10 minutes? It would resolve the issue entirely; the driver could just go do his job, and whoever looks at that report each day will get the number he wants to see and he will be happy. Program the equipment to generate the desired metric and leave us poor drivers out of it!
