I Knock Over Your Block Tower, a Metaphor For Socialism

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
We all knew, or maybe were, that kid in kindergarten whose mission in life it was to destroy anything the other kids spent their free play time building. You finally put that last block on top of your three foot tower, everything perfectly balanced, it's a thing of beauty you and a couple of buddies put your heart into. Then the class ass swings by and kicks it down. He has the audacity to say that it's your fault, and that you aren't a good tower-builder.

That's the process of starting to install a socialist system in a nutshell. People like that are why we can't have nice things.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
We all knew, or maybe were, that kid in kindergarten whose mission in life it was to destroy anything the other kids spent their free play time building. You finally put that last block on top of your three foot tower, everything perfectly balanced, it's a thing of beauty you and a couple of buddies put your heart into. Then the class ass swings by and kicks it down. He has the audacity to say that it's your fault, and that you aren't a good tower-builder.

That's the process of starting to install a socialist system in a nutshell. People like that are why we can't have nice things.
capitalism = the workers take orders undemocratically building the tower many getting injured, or wage theft, but they are likely inherintly getting ripped off because otherwise the capitalist wouldnt hire them in the first place, and then the capitalist sells it and makes all the money.

socialism = the workers collectively decide on how to build the tower and collectively decide what to do with the profits. they may also be unionized. the power is more evenly distributed under this system, and the risk is more spread as far as the monetary investment is concerned. and o yea this already exists, 25000 of some version of this in italy. they exist in america including being run by republicans who are clueless that they are sortve carrying out what karl marx envisioned.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
capitalism = the workers take orders undemocratically building the tower many getting injured, or wage theft, but they are likely inherintly getting ripped off because otherwise the capitalist wouldnt hire them in the first place, and then the capitalist sells it and makes all the money.

socialism = the workers collectively decide on how to build the tower and collectively decide what to do with the profits. they may also be unionized. the power is more evenly distributed under this system, and the risk is more spread as far as the monetary investment is concerned. and o yea this already exists, 25000 of some version of this in italy. they exist in america including being run by republicans who are clueless that they are sortve carrying out what karl marx envisioned.

Nah, socialism, everyone gets one block, no towers. It's only fair.

So, would unionized socialist workers negotiate with themselves? Lol.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
on wikipedia and as we've discussed before there are many definitions of socialism. the ones my guys use is democratically worker run and managed jobs.

That's how your guys trick you. That's how socialists on Wikipedia trick you. They misuse words, promise a better life, point out imaginary boogeymen within the current economic system, get everyone worked up into revolt. They sit back and let it all happen, then seize totalitarian control and lock all that freedom down. Happens every time.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
That's how your guys trick you. That's how socialists on Wikipedia trick you. They misuse words, promise a better life, point out imaginary boogeymen within the current economic system, get everyone worked up into revolt. They sit back and let it all happen, then seize totalitarian control and lock all that freedom down. Happens every time.
we already have economic totalitarian control with capitalism. you as a worker choose who to submit yourself to taking orders from all day. friedman is in favor of a very limiting kind of freedom. you just dont know the definition of socialism, you think its just govt controlled enterprise, which is also top down but at least they are theoretically under democratic control.

i knock over your block tower is a better metaphor for US never ending wars

 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
That's how your guys trick you. That's how socialists on Wikipedia trick you. They misuse words, promise a better life, point out imaginary boogeymen within the current economic system, get everyone worked up into revolt. They sit back and let it all happen, then seize totalitarian control and lock all that freedom down. Happens every time.
the republicans who are practicing socialism and dont know it by democratically managing their jobs, show up to work with their kids, dogs, and in their shorts because they took power away from the minority capitalists, and distributed that power amongst themselves democratically which enabled them to do this.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
the republicans who are practicing socialism and dont know it by democratically managing their jobs, show up to work with their kids, dogs, and in their shorts because they took power away from the minority capitalists, and distributed that power amongst themselves democratically which enabled them to do this.

Still not socialism. You can rebrand it all you want, it's simply an alternative corporate structure. If the model can compete, it will spread, that's the beauty of the free market.

I am beginning to understand that capitalism is a term that Marx used, maybe even coined, to help demonize what is essentially an emergent economic system. It's the system that people organize themselves into when left to pursue their own goals and interests. Modern corporatism is not quite the blight on this emergent system that socialism is, but it is problematic and needs to be dealt with.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Still not socialism. You can rebrand it all you want, it's simply an alternative corporate structure. If the model can compete, it will spread, that's the beauty of the free market.

I am beginning to understand that capitalism is a term that Marx used, maybe even coined, to help demonize what is essentially an emergent economic system. It's the system that people organize themselves into when left to pursue their own goals and interests. Modern corporatism is not quite the blight on this emergent system that socialism is, but it is problematic and needs to be dealt with.
no ur problem is u dont know what it is or how markets work because you worship quack economists liek friedman. plus you are too sure of yourself.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
no ur problem is u dont know what it is or how markets work because you worship quack economists liek friedman. plus you are too sure of yourself.

You don't know how anything works, just what your "guys" tell you. You certainly don't understand human psychology and behavior. I'd rather be sure of myself than of "guys". That's the difference between an internal locus of control and an external one. Guess which one causes people to be more easily manipulated.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
You don't know how anything works, just what your "guys" tell you. You certainly don't understand human psychology and behavior. I'd rather be sure of myself than of "guys". That's the difference between an internal locus of control and an external one. Guess which one causes people to be more easily manipulated.
yea i know its hard for you to imagine but i get different perspectives and make up my own mind.

unlike you who is too sure of himself and gets hung up on definitions.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Oh, the irony...
for example i will read zub's links. but zub is too sure of himself to read because he knows everything obviously haha

you think me being a fan of the matrix and me being a socialist and saying everything is bull:censored2: means im too sure of myself. to reach those conclusions requires a certain level of humility and skepticism.
 
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zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
for example i will read zub's links. but zub is too sure of himself to read because he knows everything obviously haha

you think me being a fan of the matrix and me being a socialist and saying everything is bull* means im too sure of myself. to reach those conclusions requires a certain level of humility and skepticism.
yea i know its hard for you to imagine but i get different perspectives and make up my own mind.

unlike you who is too sure of himself and gets hung up on definitions.

See, this is a perfect example. You fail to grasp even the most basic form of interaction, communication. Agreeing on definitions of words is necessary to avoid misunderstanding, or to understand when someone is trying to deceive you.

I tend to have a pretty visceral reaction when I know someone is lying to me. That's why I don't bother reading the stuff you post past the point when it's clear the author is being manipulative. Which is usually the headline or the first paragraph.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
See, this is a perfect example. You fail to grasp even the most basic form of interaction, communication. Agreeing on definitions of words is necessary to avoid misunderstanding, or to understand when someone is trying to deceive you.

I tend to have a pretty visceral reaction when I know someone is lying to me. That's why I don't bother reading the stuff you post past the point when it's clear the author is being manipulative. Which is usually the headline or the first paragraph.
but you dont know that hes lying, you think you do.

read a little. you might learn something.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
those dishonest scheming journalists who quit their job at NY times because they were speaking out against the iraq war!

THEYRE FILTHY ROTTEN THIEVES

The first clue is that they worked at the NYT to begin with. A lot can happen in 30 + years.

Now, let's consider, if co-ops are the answer to corporatism, why would your guys try to convince people that co-ops are linked to an objectively failed economic system? Sounds to me like they could be corporate operatives who are undermining any potential threat to the concept of corporatism.
 

Tom MacDonald

Max E. Pads
We all knew, or maybe were, that kid in kindergarten whose mission in life it was to destroy anything the other kids spent their free play time building. You finally put that last block on top of your three foot tower, everything perfectly balanced, it's a thing of beauty you and a couple of buddies put your heart into. Then the class ass swings by and kicks it down. He has the audacity to say that it's your fault, and that you aren't a good tower-builder.

That's the process of starting to install a socialist system in a nutshell. People like that are why we can't have nice things.
I glued the sides of a dudes breadbox together in shop class and got suspended. Lol. Sorry just reminded me.
 
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