I Knock Over Your Block Tower, a Metaphor For Socialism

[zubenelgenubi]

I haven’t read any Marx but isn’t the basis built around the collective human nature? We are tribal animals that built our society through collective action unattainable by the individual.

Maybe in a very broad sense. One place his theories go off the rails is that we are individuals first, who then socialize with and are influenced by other individuals. We are not primarily a collective, though many people lose their sense of individuality through their wish to fit in and be one of the crowd.

 

[vantexan]

markets dont work teh way you think they do.

Ricky you've already made it clear that you want high pay with minimal effort. The world doesn't work that way. Unless your name is Hunter Biden or in a similar situation you'll have to work hard to succeed.

 

[rickyb]

Ricky you've already made it clear that you want high pay with minimal effort. The world doesn't work that way. Unless your name is Hunter Biden or in a similar situation you'll have to work hard to succeed.

no what i want is worker self determination and community democracy not top down capitalist control or top down govt control.

 

[rickyb]

You don’t understand that I don’t care if private individuals form a co-op and run the business that way with democratic voice in the work place. Good for them it’s a free country.

Once you begin introducing authoritarianism into the mix to tank other companies for not doing this so the co-ops don’t have to compete is when things get dicey for everyone.

well you used authoritarianism to ban slavery except in prisons...its called a law lol

theres other things the govt and citizens can do to encourage coops besides banning capitalist biz.

 

[El Correcto]

well you used authoritarianism to ban slavery except in prisons...its called a law lol

Yeah I have no problem with using authoritarianism in the short term to make sure democracy and individual rights flourish in the long term. You can’t share a world with people who straight up brutally enslave people by physical force and deprive them of choices or opportunity.

If I was chained to my package car not being paid a dime and beaten for not working I would hope the government would step in you re re.

 

[rickyb]

Yeah I have no problem with using authoritarianism in the short term to make sure democracy and individual rights flourish in the long term. You can’t share a world with people who straight up brutally enslave people by physical force and deprive them of choices or opportunity.

If I was chained to my package car not being paid a dime and beaten for not working I would hope the government would step in you re re.

actually capitalism did share a world with slavery, it still does, these massive corporations love prison labour, its probably their favorite kind of labor in america.

you are conflating authoritarianism with a democratic republic passing laws.

 

[rickyb]

Maybe in a very broad sense. One place his theories go off the rails is that we are individuals first, who then socialize with and are influenced by other individuals. We are not primarily a collective, though many people lose their sense of individuality through their wish to fit in and be one of the crowd.

 

[El Correcto]

What’s there to understand. They start a revolution to overthrow the bourgeois, fail to create their utopia, become the bourgeois but with a new super authoritarian government to violate individual rights.

It’s not hard to understand go read a book.

 

[rickyb]

What’s there to understand. They start a revolution to overthrow the bourgeois, fail to create their utopia, become the bourgeois but with a new super authoritarian government to violate individual rights.

It’s not hard to understand go read a book.

there are capitalist political dictatorships too sherlock.

 

[El Correcto]

there are capitalist political dictatorships too sherlock.

Yeah that’s what I said, they become the bourgeois. They are idealistic fools just like you who have no real understanding of running a country. History has proven this time and time again, but idiots keep thinking this time we will make true communism happen!

Lol.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

no what i want is worker self determination and community democracy not top down capitalist control or top down govt control.

Then put your money where your mouth is. Be the change you want to see. Work at a co-op, bank at a government run bank. Report back to us on how it goes.

I think we agree on a lot more than what everyone realizes. It's simply the apparent lack of agreed upon definitions for particular words that causes confusion. Reminds me of the story of the tower of babel. Which couldn't be finished and was knocked over because of socialism.

 

[rickyb]

Yeah that’s what I said, they become the bourgeois. They are idealistic fools just like you who have no real understanding of running a country. History has proven this time and time again, but idiots keep thinking this time we will make true communism happen!

Lol.

trump had no real understanding of running a country and you voted for him just hte same.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

trump had no real understanding of running a country and you voted for him just hte same.

Good thing we have a system of checks and balances that prevents any one man from doing much harm.

 

[rickyb]

Then put your money where your mouth is. Be the change you want to see. Report back to us on how it goes.

I think we agree on a lot more than what everyone realizes. It's simply the apparent lack of agreed upon definitions for particular words that causes confusion. Reminds me of the story of the tower of babel.

yea i did i donated 10k roughly. also gone to protests, have bumper stickers, a few shirts, etc. we do our part to expand freedom.

american under 40 are 50/50 preference of capitalism vs socialism last i heard.

 

[rickyb]

Good thing we have a system of checks and balances that prevents any one man from doing much harm.

uhh you dont thats a myth.

 

[rickyb]

Then put your money where your mouth is. Be the change you want to see. Work at a co-op, bank at a government run bank. Report back to us on how it goes.

I think we agree on a lot more than what everyone realizes. It's simply the apparent lack of agreed upon definitions for particular words that causes confusion. Reminds me of the story of the tower of babel. Which couldn't be finished and was knocked over because of socialism.

we probably do agree on a lot. hte but media system has us thinking that we dont.

you should learn more about karl marx and read about the critiques of friedman and markets.

 

[Box Ox]

Ricky you've already made it clear that you want high pay with minimal effort.

no what i want is worker self determination and community democracy not top down capitalist control or top down govt control.

What kind of businesses do you see the "self determination and community democracy" model working out for? Are the workers all happy when the capitalism-free revenues are divided up? Would you finally be able to move out of your palatial family estate whose excessive luxuriousness constantly reminds you of the evils of capitalism to live on your own?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

we probably do agree on a lot. hte but media system has us thinking that we dont.

you should learn more about karl marx and read about the critiques of friedman and markets.

I know a lot about those subjects. Not saying I couldn't learn more. The critiques of markets I've read are written by people who don't understand that markets are inseparable from the people who participate in them.

I understand that completely free and open markets are prone to abuse, which is why we have regulation. The goal of regulation should be to keep markets as free as possible. The fact is, though, that regulation tends to make markets even easier to abuse. They lock out competition, and end up hurting everyone but the people they are meant to limit.

 

[rickyb]

What kind of businesses do you see the "self determination and community democracy" model working out for? Are the workers all happy when the capitalism-free revenues are divided up? Would you finally be able to move out of your palatial family estate whose excessive luxuriousness constantly reminds you of the evils of capitalism to live on your own?

 

[rickyb]

What kind of businesses do you see the "self determination and community democracy" model working out for? Are the workers all happy when the capitalism-free revenues are divided up? Would you finally be able to move out of your palatial family estate whose excessive luxuriousness constantly reminds you of the evils of capitalism to live on your own?

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOWumRv2zO8Z9rvBbeBTOhQy2uLmb0ZVW

this one has good production