I.S. forum needs help !

Deeohem

Well-Known Member
Joe probably wouldn't need much discussion. As a father of a teenage daughter, he probably understands the explicit and implicit needs for rules, policies, and procedures and that things like limiting admin rights and the abilities of the average user to surf the web are not arbitrarily done but rather have a purpose.

In actuality, I've met a number of Joe Blows in this company, drivers, clerks, package management, BD, automotive.... never had a problem with them.

Jane on the other hand.... as a student, she's coming from an environment and culture where free access to the internet is a RIGHT, very few limitations, where even if she doesn't, she know people who acquire music without paying for it. On the other hand.... She did NOT have admin rights to any of the computers in the computer labs at school.
 

rups

Member
Someone made a good point on the thread about ETH. Web Apps = the end of local TSG.

I'll just let the efficiencies of lightweight web applications speak for themselves.

http://www.zoho.com

and nothing gets installed on my box
 
Y

Yeah

Guest
Yeah

The more some people yap, the more ignorance they show about what techs actually do. As if our jobs were only about pcs.

Their is so many other things we work on besides your stupid Windows pc that its not even funny. Go replace a board in a DIAD Rack, a Burr Brown, an Access point, the UPS (battery Backups), Sapphires, Tech10s, switches, program radios, telecom, etc..

EVEN IF YOU TAKE EVERY PC OUT OF THE BUILDING YOU STILL NEED A LITTLE TSG....
 

ImpactedTSG

Well-Known Member
Re: Yeah

The more some people yap, the more ignorance they show about what techs actually do. As if our jobs were only about pcs.

Their is so many other things we work on besides your stupid Windows pc that its not even funny. Go replace a board in a DIAD Rack, a Burr Brown, an Access point, the UPS (battery Backups), Sapphires, Tech10s, switches, program radios, telecom, etc..

EVEN IF YOU TAKE EVERY PC OUT OF THE BUILDING YOU STILL NEED A LITTLE TSG....
You don't need a 45K per year person to change batteries in a UPS or swap out a tech 10 scanner. UPS can outsource a tech for about $15 per hour to come in and do most of that stuff.
 
Y

Yeah

Guest
Guess what Einstien, when I first got promoted into TSG I was making $13 an Hour. Amazing thing after some years you get some raises and make a little more money. So unless you plan to fire everyone every ten years its unavoidable. Besides if you search jobs, with experience, A+ and Net+ you can easily get jobs starting between 18-24 an hour all day, without PMT or HDFS.
 
2

2G 1C

Guest
Re: Yeah

You don't need a 45K per year person to change batteries in a UPS or swap out a tech 10 scanner. UPS can outsource a tech for about $15 per hour to come in and do most of that stuff.

You couldn't be more correct. TSG evolved over the years. In the early 1990's, the techs were better skilled. As Mahwah, Paramus, IS MD, and Windward grew and developed, the company no longer needed skill at the local district and center. In fact, the existence of skill was a red-light to management that an unhappy employee was in their building.

I know that us TSG techs have a lot of varied knowledge and skill, however, the sum of the parts do not equal an industry Specialist, Analyst, or Engineer in any of the technology disciplines (programming, network, desktop support, ops, etc.).

As nasty as this is going to sound, a TSG Tech (with rare exception) is equal (at any length of service) to a Geek Squad or Fire Dog technician. As I just stated, there are exceptions, you will always meet that one guy in your district who really is a great professional. As I said, the length of time as a TSG tech does not mean a continually improving and increasing skill level. Normally (at places other than UPS), time does equal greater experience. At UPS, time equals a greater chance of being dumb-down through increased automation.

Through increased automation, the workload for TSG has not decreased. The TSG techs take care of esoteric and proprietary hardware and software that the company develops. While it does take skill and experience to master, these technologies get you nowhere in the technology industry. A career of UPS tech experience is worth about 5 years of IT to the typical competent technical interviewer at a prospective employer.

If I were hiring for a technology position outside UPS, and every TSG tech in my district were interviewing, the results would likely be the following;

If the position was for a Network Engineer; I would hire none.

If the position was for an Operating Systems Analyst; I would hire none.

If the position was for a programmer; I might hire one.

If the position was for a Desktop Support Technician; I might hire 8.

If the position was for a Technical Documentation Writer; I might hire 2.

If the position was for a Web Developer; I might hire 2.

If the position was for a Hardware New-Installation Setup Technician; I would hire all.

Considering the skills presented by the interviewees, I would likely be giving the job offers due to my intuition about the candidate's personality and potential more than their argued skill level. If I didn't use factors other than their resume, I would likely not hire any of them.

This is the stark and true reality of the situation. I sit on hiring panels. Most UPS-like technical people don't even get interviews. Companies don't want to spend $15 an hour, much less $25 or $30 an hour on technical staff that don't have industry standard skills.

UPS should keep two really good techs in each hub. They should pay them so obscenely much that they can never leave. They should treat them with respect and make them feel like part of the management team. Next, they should ditch the rest of the techs and outsource. The remaining two guys could oversee the work of the contracted help.

In my experience, it was always two good techs showing all the bad ones what to do anyway!
 
Y

Yeah

Guest
First this $15 an hour Outsource price is a myth. The Company that provides the service has overhead and still charges at least $50 and hour for their services. Please check what the Geek Squad charges to get files off a drive: $250 for a good drive $500 for a failed drive and $50 to plop in RAM. I earned my keep last month.

Now as far as your district goes, it is a shame thier level of expertise is so low. We have some MSCEs, Net+s, and college people. Your situation is primarily due to several reasons.

1. You hired your buddies instead of performing proper interviews
2. Goverment Law for you to fill shortfall catagories regardless of skill
3. But the big reason is managements failure to provide proper training, because good training can overcome the other two reasons.

Your people are as only good as you are, and if your people suck, guess what...

UPS drills and constantly trains thier 8.50 an hour loaders and their 28.00 an hour drivers on company time until they are robots. However Techs get bogus SMS tests an CBTs which are almost worthless. They are expected to be all things to all people with no training. You want a network person, pay for some CISCO training. The only ones that achive without training are the aggressive ones.

Guess what, other companies pay for proper training, its called a return on investment. Most managment are ex-center and IE which only know how to say "Crack! Pop! Ha! Ya! Mule! Faster!....
 

ImpactedTSG

Well-Known Member
However Techs get bogus SMS tests an CBTs which are almost worthless. They are expected to be all things to all people with no training. You want a network person, pay for some CISCO training. The only ones that achive without training are the aggressive ones.

Guess what, other companies pay for proper training, its called a return on investment...
Seriously, UPS could train everyone on the latest MS and Cisco technologies, but why? All of that can be effectively managed remotely from a central location with one group of trained staff. That would be a return on investment over having highly trained staff at every center. That was also the reason for the big push on standardization. Have you ever been involved with an assessment? If so, take a good hard look at what they are pushing and you'll be able to figure out the direction of TSG. PMT and standard PC builds were an obvious sign that the layoffs were coming. I saw it coming, but didn't think they were going to just cut people loose. I assumed they would be absorbed into IE instead of the mgt trainees for a couple years, but I was wrong about that.
 
2

2G 1C and Yeah

Guest
First this $15 an hour Outsource price is a myth. The Company that provides the service has overhead and still charges at least $50 and hour for their services. Please check what the Geek Squad charges to get files off a drive: $250 for a good drive $500 for a failed drive and $50 to plop in RAM. I earned my keep last month.

Now as far as your district goes, it is a shame thier level of expertise is so low. We have some MSCEs, Net+s, and college people. Your situation is primarily due to several reasons.

1. You hired your buddies instead of performing proper interviews
2. Goverment Law for you to fill shortfall catagories regardless of skill
3. But the big reason is managements failure to provide proper training, because good training can overcome the other two reasons.

Your people are as only good as you are, and if your people suck, guess what...

UPS drills and constantly trains thier 8.50 an hour loaders and their 28.00 an hour drivers on company time until they are robots. However Techs get bogus SMS tests an CBTs which are almost worthless. They are expected to be all things to all people with no training. You want a network person, pay for some CISCO training. The only ones that achive without training are the aggressive ones.

Guess what, other companies pay for proper training, its called a return on investment. Most managment are ex-center and IE which only know how to say "Crack! Pop! Ha! Ya! Mule! Faster!....

You are offended, I see. The $15 dollar Myth is no Myth. You are comparing my apples to your oranges. There are a lot of IT folks who earn $15 an hour. And yes, the total cost is often two or three times higher because the outsource wage is not the outsource contracted hourly amount paid to the contracting firm. Even at $45 an hour, this is as cheap or cheaper than a UPS employee who can get a 3% 401k match, superior health benefits as a result of the kick-in that UPS provides, and UPS must plan monies to comply with their promise to offer a retirement fund to these employees.

Outsourcing allows the company to make a phone call to the contracting firm to remove an employee without challenge -- no HR nightmares that are incurred with a UPS-owned employee. The outsource staff can be increased or decreased according to project or the whim of the company. Only in cases of contracted long-term agreements is this affected. The company can also choose from a pool of trained and skilled employees -- something it doesn't have to worry about developing with internal staff.

To the assertion of MCE's, Network + and college education. This, too, existed in my district. Most of the certified folks were decent but not great. A college education is always a plus, I cannot argue this. What I can say is that 4 years of college a computer genius does not make. My father-in-law told me once that if you take a fool and give him the money for a college degree, what you get at the end of 4 years is a fool with a college degree.

As far as the certifications, I would argue with you until the end of time that the UPS tech with a certification is less adept at the given technology for which he certified than the same certified folks at other companies. Why? Because UPS does not allow a technician with a major certification to ever work on the technology at the level where the certification is needed. I know ImpactedTSG. This is a smart guy. He probably agrees with me on this. If I am wrong, he can correct me and I will not argue the point further -- I trust his opinion.

Oh, on the Geek Squad thing, Apples and Oranges again. The Geek Squad tech might do $250 worth of work on your system, but he gets a straight low wage ( I think they earn about $12.50 an hour -- I asked once.). This speaks to a dastardly company paying low wages for big returns on the work the employee returns. This sucks for the employee, but is smart financially for the business.

As for your 3 points;

1) No buddies were hired. I wouldn't hire a person to do something that I know they couldn't. Perhaps my thinking is foreign, but I believe UPS deserves better. This point you made is just an angry statement meant to hurt my feelings -- I am weeping as I type.

2) You may, in fact, have a really good point. I don't think I understand what it is though.

3)Training... This is one area that I have remained peaved about for a decade. On one hand I have never ever gotten over the utter lack of useful training for TSG Techs. On the other, I don't see a point to most industry standard training. What I would argue is that UPS could develop classroom-driven or 1-on-1 training for the proprietary software and hardware that it has deployed.

This topic (#3), goes to my point about having 2 really good techs per hub. These are the "Trained" folks who can direct the outsourced staff.

I also agree with you on the SMS tests and other meager and insulting forms of training.

UPS is a great company. UPS is a horrible company for a motivated and interested IT Tech. It can be both things at the same time. It is hard to accept this sometimes.

I recently left UPS. I still have stock, a full 401k plan, a future retirement and a lot of friends that are still there -- still pissed about the lack of respect they get and still mad at themselves for not having done something about it.

In the time that I have left, I have come to realize that every criticism that I had was mostly true. Sometimes I had mean-spirited or misguided notions for why I believed the criticisms, however, regardless of their genesis, they were mostly all correct.

I truly believe that TSG Techs are a decent group of people who want to do more and have a better say in their company. The problem is that you have always been considered second-class employees and probably always will. This is not my opinion, it is true. I sat on meetings during the inception of the TSG Tech position in the early 90's. It was a through-away job that never got thrown away. It was a stop-gap until the company got the "technology age" up and installed. The problem is that UPS, like most other companies, didn't have the wisdom to see that technology was ever changing and increasing. UPS didn't see a Diad 6. It saw, back then, a Diad 1.x -- ocassional updates to a single generation technology -- not an iteration.

You don't have to agree with me. I probably won't post again for a while. As my grandma would say, "I take spells."
 
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