Innocent until proven guilty? yeah ok

[Puck]

I never said it wasnt my fault.... but Im sorry I dont think any of this warrants me losing my job or even turning my life upside down... doing this preload thing is going to cost me my spot on 2 of my 3 hockey teams I am on, not sleeping next to my wife at night anymore is going to cause me marital problems... as well as mess up a good thing I had going in the summer working on a boat that does night fishing trips and I would work the weekends too....

some of you say I should appreciate them putting me on Preload but until youve been in my shoes please dont tell me how its a blessing in any way shape or form.. its a sentence.... UPS has many other ways they can go about it.... you guys ask " why should they" I say they should because Im the MOST KNOWLEGABLE split driver they have.. I can do routes in just about any town my center covers and I know them cold...
I do my job... Ive just had some problems dealing with things.. and alot of times my " body language" is misenterpreted... and im sorry if I dont come off apologetic when I get told I did something or said something that I did not say.... too many times in some of these reports words have been put into my mouth that I did not say... I even got my steward to get a copy of one of the concerns and he brought it to the attention of the security guard that I had a problem with and the security guard said that what was wirrten there was NOT what happened.... SO please forgive me for being defensive in situations like this... half the time they didnt even talk to me abotui the concern that was front and center they had me explaining myself for past things that we spoke about months before... none of you who are posting and berrating me prolly never had a center manager that hated them....

 

[over9five]

Really Outstanding Driver!

 

[Puck]

no not part time... full time but inside... Midnight til 9 am.... and they are going to put me on the boxline in my center to embarrass me...
I do not feel like I deserve this.. I should be showing up tomorrow in Browns heading out onto the road... I think they found a loophole in the contract somewhwere in the language in discipline where you continue to WORK but not necessarily at YOUR JOB... Its not fair.. period... I am willing to go see a shrink, go to anger management/sensitivity training to improve as a person as well as an employee at UPS... but noone wants to hear it... they tried to do this to me a week ago and my BA shut it down.. then a week later i was called into the office along with a Labor Relations guy from UPS as well as the center manager and DM and they did it again.. and this time my BA wasnt sure what to do and now he is on vacation this week.... so its either show up and work the preload or make no paycheck.....

Let me get this right, ups allows you to go back ptime after 4 plus years of fulltime? Does this happen anywhere else in the country? Here in chicago once you attain your seniority (40 working days in 90) you can never go back ptime, unless a lay-off happens.

 

[Puck]

ROD is what we call very heavy routes or splits that have way too much work.. Routes Ofriend Death or Routes Ofriend Disability

 

[barnyard]

You should probably start looking for other friend/T work. Even if your BA does got you back during the day, your bosses want you gone and they will find some other mistake you will make and nail you on that. I guarantee that they will 'make it stick' within 6 months.

TB

 

[705red]

no not part time... full time but inside... Midnight til 9 am.... and they are going to put me on the boxline in my center to embarrass me...
I do not feel like I deserve this.. I should be showing up tomorrow in Browns heading out onto the road... I think they found a loophole in the contract somewhwere in the language in discipline where you continue to WORK but not necessarily at YOUR JOB... Its not fair.. period... I am willing to go see a shrink, go to anger management/sensitivity training to improve as a person as well as an employee at UPS... but noone wants to hear it... they tried to do this to me a week ago and my BA shut it down.. then a week later i was called into the office along with a Labor Relations guy from UPS as well as the center manager and DM and they did it again.. and this time my BA wasnt sure what to do and now he is on vacation this week.... so its either show up and work the preload or make no paycheck.....

Look im not taking sides here, but heres some advice from a ups union steward. When you work for ups you have to sacrafice something, family time, bowling night, softball, etc. Its something we have all come to terms with, were not happy about it but were else can we make this kind of money? From reading your posts here i can see that you are burned out. From hockey to 3am to night fishing and working on the weekend.

You need to ask yourself do you want to drive for ups? What are you willing to give up? Im not saying everything, but you cant stay out to 3am and expect not to be miserable at work! Its hard to do but make a decision that benefits you so you dont look back 10 years from now with regrets!

 

[Puck]

thats just it... being back on the road working my normal job that I busted my ass to get enables me to do all the things I do.... its no problem for me and hasnt been... Once I am back on the road things will change.. I will no longer care when I get done... If it takes me 3 minutes at a stop to dot all my eyes and cross all my T's I will do that... and If a customer is angry cuzx I walked onm his lawn I will re-sod the damn thing if thats what it takes for him to be happy.... Im not willing to give up the life I have built for myself and my family... thats why the preload is not going to work for me at all.....

 

[Puck]

and actually... the nights I am there til 3am is usually when Im lucky enough to be skating with an NHLer who is working out trying to coem back from injury.. most recently I skated with Chris Simon the NHLer who is currently suspended until February 21st... like me one hell of a nice guy who has made some mistakes in his career... and the day after granted im tired... the soreness and fatigue was well worth it... most people dont get to play hockey with Pro's or get to shoot on an NHL goalie..... I do and its amazing experience and great to get compliments and pointers from guys who make it all look so easy..

 

[705red]

and actually... the nights I am there til 3am is usually when Im lucky enough to be skating with an NHLer who is working out trying to coem back from injury.. most recently I skated with Chris Simon the NHLer who is currently suspended until February 21st... like me one hell of a nice guy who has made some mistakes in his career... and the day after granted im tired... the soreness and fatigue was well worth it... most people dont get to play hockey with Pro's or get to shoot on an NHL goalie..... I do and its amazing experience and great to get compliments and pointers from guys who make it all look so easy..

I can tell your still a young guy. Ask yourself whats more important, skating with a suspended nhler? Or paying the bills? You stated that theres no problem with doing all of this when your driving, but obviously there is because you are no longer driving. Trust me i would stay out all night get my ndas done take an hour nap and bust my rear to finish the route just to do it all again that same night and for what. Im alot happier now working 10, 11 and 12 hours and coming home to sleep rather than living it up. We donot have a 9 to 5 job.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Life has priorities and it is time that you prioritized your life. If you want to be a "rink rat", go for it--just don't expect to be able to give 100% to your job. It is quite obvious that you are burning the candle at both ends and, unfortunately, the end marked "UPS" is starting to burn out.

 

[upsgrunt]

I agree with the last couple of posts; you cannot do this job consistantly with only 2-3 hours of sleep. I would say that is your biggest problem. When you are tired, your methods suffer and you start to take shortcuts and get a bad attitude with minor things. Another thing I see is that you are straining yourself patting yourself on the back. When someone comes on this site and basically says that they are the best that UPS has and no one does it better, guess what every reader of that post thinks to themself? I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count. I don't claim to be an expert, but this is just what I see.

 

[preloader]

Yeah, i gotta agree with the sleeping aspect as well. But just think, if you do end up on preload, you can sleep all day, skate all day, whatever you like! Just be sure to be home by 7 pm for sleep cuz man does 2 am come early some mornings.

BTW, i would have to also agree that pointing out the idea that what we do in the early morning while you're still dreaming of how to piss off my customers is "slave work", rest assured that the people you will find in all of our buildings on any shift are among the hardest working, and greatest people you will find. The sacrifices these people make everyday to insure that the big brown machine keeps chugging along by being ready to work at 3 am is astounding.

After 14 years with UPS i have no intention of ever driving, as i am near driver rate anyway and rather like how my life has evolved due to the opportunity given to me to stay on preload. However, the kids on my shift work their asses off and get the brown end of the stick constantly. Furthermore, I think maybe some time on preload may make you appreciate us some, but more importantly appreciate your own position in our company, and maybe one day, even those rude customers that have paid top price to ship their items with us, expect the top service, dont get it, but insted get a mouthy employee, and STILL give us another chance to rectify or reputation.

i dunno, maybe im just another preload slave thats too dumb to figure out how many chances the company owes me. I wonder if i screw up at my hub they will punish me by sending me driving...i hope not, it would screw up my life!

 

[HazMatMan]

Haz, he wasn't dissing you--he was responding to Puckin.

Yeah, I kind of thought that, but then saw that he quoted me,that's why i edited my post with a reason, hope he accepts my apology.

 

[disciplinary procedure]

Puckin, you don't state where you are from but I'm not aware of anywhere in the country where Management can fire you for excessive customer concerns much less move you from a full time driving job into a full time inside job.

You do not state whether they are paying your your driving rate. If they are not they should be.

Disciplinary procedures are pretty standard throughout the country and without a warning letter in place Management has unilaterally violated the contract in your situation, regardless of what you have do to bring your situation to this point. It wasn't clear whether there was a BA or Steward in each of your meetings but in the last one with the Labor manager, District Manager, and Center Manager it's possible whoever was representing you felt a little overwhelmed.

First of all, if I was representing you I would be filing labor board charges in addition to taking your case to panel. This seems like it is ultimately going to go to arbitration and the Company will lose if all of the facts are as you stated. I would argue that there was no warning letter in place, no language supporting this type of discipline, and show that the company did nothing to improve your customer skills other than removing you from driving. A good BA would request all concerns in the center for the last 9 months at a minimum, and see whether you are 'least best' LOL or not.

So for the time being I would work the inside job for now and keep track of your hours plus the most hours worked per day by any swing driver lower in seniority in the center you were in. If your center does not post the daily WOR for you to record this, ask the steward to request the information for you. When it comes time to compute your back pay I would argue that you were due the difference between the 9 hours you worked inside and the hours worked by the less senior person.

Do not sign anything related to your employment such as the letter or resignation or anything that permanently places you in the inside job. Do not meet with management under any circumstances without a steward. Keep silent if they do not allow you representation and repeat your request each time they ask for a response. Keep notes of everything that has transpired including times, dates, and people involved.

While having you work the inside job is difficult for you, it is preferrable to being on the street and having to deal with your benefits cut off. This could take some time to resolve so be as patient as possible. I would keep in close contact with your Business Agent and be aware of dates and times for panel hearings. I would encourage you to show up at panel to plead your side in person.

There has been a lot of crap posted on here about what you did and how you shouldn't be a driver. Your career choice is no ones business but your own. Management doesnt get to just sweep you under the rug because they don't feel like retraining you. However, I would see this as a 'wake up' call of sorts to prevent this type of hassle in the future. Customer concerns can be interpreted many ways, usually depending on how your Management Team feels about you at the time. Obviously you want to minimize these concerns so just keep a smile on your face, stick to the methods, and do your best to keep the customers on your good side. A tape recorder is handy for those customers you have had problems with before.

In regards to the stop sign, it's never OK to roll through one even if there is snow as someone else posted. UPS drivers are professionals and we follow the law at all times while working. I'd encourage you to modify the number of air stops you can safely take out so that you don't find yourself in this situation again. Notify your center right away if you think you may not be able to make your air on time.

Finally, in the event this case does not go in your favor, I would contact a good labor attorney and pursue charges against the Union. While hopefully this won't happen, it is more important that your career is preserved and others like you are not subjected to this unilateral disregard for the grievance and disciplinary procedures. All of the documentation you have gathered would be critical at this juncture.

Good luck and I hope you are back on the road soon.

 

[Puck]

disciplinary prodeure I wish I could PM you i have so many questions LOL .. thanks for the info you have posted... Im doing everyhthing I can right now to fix this situation but it doesnt help that my BA is on vacation

 

[2Slow]

There's a pretty good chance that you will get your driving job back, I'm the first one to stand up and fight when Managment is acting poorly, but...

That's an awful lot of customer concerns...

What's your deal?
This is a customer service job. We delivery drivers are UPS to the people out in the world. You clearly haven't been acting like it. Figure it out soon, or you will lose one of the battles with managment sooner or later.

 

[2Slow]

Oh, one more thing from someone who's been around in delivery a lot longer than you have.
The customers know we are in a hurry, you don't have to tell them. If they screw you on time one day and you are polite, they are a lot more likely to like you tomorrow. Guess what, when they like you they want to help you.

 

[over9five]

Excellent post by "disciplinary procedure". You should register and become a memeber!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

DP--excellent post

Puck--thank you for the user name change

I hope everything works out for you.

 

[doctor brown 688]

Puck, Hang in there! Deal with the situation at hand,work as instructed while things are being hashed out. Very good advice from DP! Does your local only have one B.A.? Call the Union hall and ask to speak with another B.A. and/or their boss. I know how customers can be at times,my advice is limit your contact with them and just get in and out(I always liked the ones who figure because they are paying,you are their personal shelf stocking boy ha!ha!) The company does not always side with customer, we have several drivers that can't(by customer request) or refuse to deliver to certain stops(customer we have is anal about UPS pulling on his concrete drive,has cussed and called in on at least a dozen drivers,his packages are hold for pick up). Bottom line,those kind of customers are out there but to have as many as you say, you may need to try a different approach once you get things set right.
Best of luck!