Iraq / Saddam Hussein / and the gotcha question

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
The republicons trend in taking responsibility for the havoc that they cause. Rewrite the circumstances and actions that they take and put it on someone else...
I don't see anyone on BC saying that Bush did not start this war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

But he was managing the war and our allies well enough.

It all fell to crap soon after Dumbo became our commander in chief.

He has no will or desire to win this war.
 

bottomups

Bad Moon Risen'
I don't see anyone on BC saying that Bush did not start this war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

But he was managing the war and our allies well enough.

It all fell to crap soon after Dumbo became our commander in chief.

He has no will or desire to win this war.
There was no way we were going to "win" in Iraq unless we kept a substantial military presence forever ala Korea. The Sunni & Shia have been fighting each other for centuries. Foolish of us to think we could nation build them into a democracy.
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
There was no way we were going to "win" in Iraq unless we kept a substantial military presence forever ala Korea. The Sunni & Shia have been fighting each other for centuries. Foolish of us to think we could nation build them into a democracy.
I would have no problem keeping a large force there, you would and did.

And our ancestors lived under kings for centuries.

Was it foolish to think we could change?
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I would have no problem keeping a large force there, you would and did.

Would you have no problem paying my portion of taxes I'm charged to pay in order to make this happen? No?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

And our ancestors lived under kings for centuries.

Was it foolish to think we could change?

Our ancestors went through something called "The Enlightenment" which opened minds to rethink the idea of monarchy. Had we not gone through this period and gaining knowledge and understanding, it would have been foolish.

The muslim world very early on was a rather enlightened society with great advances in science, mathematics and philosophy. Their great age ironically took place as the christian west was locked in it's own Dark Ages not unlike the muslim world is today. There is a muslim enlightenment brewing and growing but we've injected ourselves into their culture and thus muddying the waters.

In fact, as I look at the outcome along with the history of colonialism, I can't help but to question if that is really the intent!
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.
Would you have no problem paying my portion of taxes I'm charged to pay in order to make this happen? No?

Yeah, I didn't think so.



Our ancestors went through something called "The Enlightenment" which opened minds to rethink the idea of monarchy. Had we not gone through this period and gaining knowledge and understanding, it would have been foolish.

The muslim world very early on was a rather enlightened society with great advances in science, mathematics and philosophy. Their great age ironically took place as the christian west was locked in it's own Dark Ages not unlike the muslim world is today. There is a muslim enlightenment brewing and growing but we've injected ourselves into their culture and thus muddying the waters.

In fact, as I look at the outcome along with the history of colonialism, I can't help but to question if that is really the intent!
A. I would make the Iraqis pay part of that bill.

B. Goblygook.
 

bottomups

Bad Moon Risen'
A. I would make the Iraqis pay part of that bill.

B. Goblygook.
The Bush administration claimed at its outset that the Iraq war would finance itself out of Iraqi oil revenues. When Bush’s National Economic Council director Lawrence Lindsey told the Wall Street Journal that the war would cost between $100 billion and $200 billion, he came under intense fire from others in the administration who claimed that this was a gross overestimation, and he was forced to resign.



Expecting them to pay for the war worked so well the last time!
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Documented civilian deaths from violence
139,707 – 158,226
Total violent deaths including combatants
216,000

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/thou_shalt_not_kill_20150607

from a chris hedges article, who won the pulitzer prize for covering wars, who has also covered many revolutions:
"
The military in the United States portrays itself as endowed with the highest virtues—honor, duty, self-sacrifice, courage and patriotism. Politicians, entertainers, sports stars, the media, clerics and academics slavishly bow before the military machine, ignoring its colossal pillaging of state resources, the egregious war crimes it has normalized across the globe, its abject service not to democracy or freedom but corporate profit, and the blind, mind-numbing obedience it inculcates among its members. A lone soldier or Marine who rises up inside the system to denounce the hypermasculinity that glorifies violence and war, who exposes the false morality of the military, who refuses to kill in the service of imperial power, unmasks the military for what it is. And he or she, as Chelsea Manning has learned, swiftly pays a very, very heavy price.


But after hearing the veterans’ tales, his worldview crumbled. He began to ask questions he had not asked before. He began to think. And thinking within any military establishment is an act of subversion.

...the military also incentivizes killing. If you do well at marksmanship you get rewarded with three-day passes....Every aspect of popular culture incentivizes violence, from television shows to movies like ‘American Sniper.’ Killing is presented as noble. Those who kill are supposed to be heroes. And this prepares us for the military.”

He began to hear disturbing stories about the wars in the Middle East, not the glorified stories spun out by recruiters, the media or the entertainment industry, but stories about whole families being blown up or gunned down by U.S. troops in the streets of Iraq and Afghanistan.

“I read about Nagasaki, Hiroshima, Agent Orange, radiation and how it’s still affecting people today, how people are still dying or being born with congenital defects. I found Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. I had never heard of them. I guess there was a good reason I had never heard of them. I read ‘A People’s History of the United States,’ by Zinn. I read ‘Understanding Power,’ by Chomsky.

“But in the military there is a double standard. If I do not obey the regulations I get court-martialed. If they do not obey the regulations nothing happens. It is I who suffers.

"


again we hear about the 2 tiered justice system, the system of mass propaganda, american empire,
 

realbrown1

Annoy a liberal today. Hit them with facts.

newfie

Well-Known Member
And good for him. It's about time the middle east sort it's mess out. I'm just wondering when Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the Kurds are going to get serious. Probably only when they realize Washington isn't coming to the rescue this time.

I don't see how you can lump Jordan and the kurds in with the Saudi's
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
That report just says that they couldn't confirm Iraq had chemical weapons.

So what!

To this day, it has not been confirmed that Israel has nuclear weapoms., and we all know that they do.

Knowing something and proving it are 2 separate things.

And by the way, chemical weapons were found in Iraq.

I wonder how they got there?
Mostly left overs from the Iraq/Iran war ?
You know the ones the USA provided ?
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I don't see anyone on BC saying that Bush did not start this war in Iraq or Afghanistan.

But he was managing the war and our allies well enough.

It all fell to crap soon after Dumbo became our commander in chief.

He has no will or desire to win this war.

The Middle East has been an ongoing bad situation for a very long time. It's an incredibly complex situation, which leaves you out of the equation when it comes to solutions.
 

ImWaitingForTheDay

Annoy a conservative....Think for yourself
kinda like Obama blaming Bush for 8 years of his failures.
Hey fly i forgot EVERYTHING went to crap on Jan 20 2009.....
I have never heard President Obama blame Bush for the economic disaster that was just cresting to a peak as Obama took office. I've only heard him blaming the Bush policies for it. Justifiably.
Thanks, Newfly, for pretending not to understand the stark difference between blaming a person and blaming that person's failed policies...For example, Iraq, the cost, all of it. Everything. It never happened right FLY. It never existed.
regardless of the way republics left the country when leaving office. It was always either Clinton's fault , or it was Obama's fault. It couldn't be the GOPTP at fault. that's impossible. The damage done by Bush is immense, never forget it.
 

newfie

Well-Known Member
Hey fly i forgot EVERYTHING went to crap on Jan 20 2009.....
I have never heard President Obama blame Bush for the economic disaster that was just cresting to a peak as Obama took office. I've only heard him blaming the Bush policies for it. Justifiably.
.

so you did hear him blame bush for what he inherited.
 
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