GuyinBrown
Blah
Isn't the $214 the total contribution we get for both the pension AND the medical? If so, your numbers are flawed. I could very well be the one who is wrong here, I'm not sure.
Is Central States pension fund ready to go under?
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
Isn't the $214 the total contribution we get for both the pension AND the medical? If so, your numbers are flawed. I could very well be the one who is wrong here, I'm not sure.
Central States Pension Assets Up $700 Million
August 13, 2007: The assets of the Central States Pension Fund have jumped $700 million in the first six months of this year, reaching $21.4 billion, and could reach $22 billion by the end of 2007.
August 13, 2007: The assets of the Central States Pension Fund have jumped $700 million in the first six months of this year, reaching $21.4 billion, and could reach $22 billion by the end of 2007.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Cole here are union officers have set up a steward training fund that allows us if willing to on our own time (not paid) attend classes on contract enforcement, grievance procedures, arbitration, etc, the list goes on. We have some real good labor law proffessors who actually volunteer their time on the weekends occasionally and hold classes for us who cannot sign on for a semester at a time. We see who is serious about being a steward and who just blows these classes off. We as a union stewards have to get better at being stewards, because ups is spending the money to train these labor managers to try and out-wit us! At least here its not working we have alot of stewards that are just as capable to argue a panel or even an arbitration.
Fyi cole an agent is a member!
705red
Browncafe Steward
Area you go ahead and go into your wonderful sep plan and i will stay in my mep plan, and if ups keeps spiraling down ward the way they are, we will see who receives their pension when the time comes. Now im not wishing bad ill on the company or any of the pensioners at all, but we all see how this company treats its customers lately and unless we change i can see dhl gaining more of our volume. Under the mep you have the possibility of others floating our pensions just as we are floating some pensioners now. Under the sep ups goes under were will your pension payment come from now,area?
tieguy
Banned
Not a good argument. insurance for a private plan is about 4 times more then it is for a multi-employer plan.
Brown, I know for a fact that its 214 a week just for the pension. Now, that has changed (214 a wk) due to it being august. I plan to buy my last year out in about four years so by then it will be around 11 grand to buy it out. This is in Virginia, it could be dfferent in other parts of the country. As for the insurance I believe no buy out is required. Just pay the monthly premiums that are at about 400 dollars a month or close to it. Full Timers tend to forget this. On top of what we make UPS pays an additonal amount of roughly over 20,000 dollars a year per ft hourly directly to the Teamsters to cover our Health ins and pension.
Another quick point. Under funded. Again, there are some that say the CS fund is under funded and partly blame UPS. Curious, do you base that on the whole fund in and of itself or do you base it on UPS's individual employee contributions. I believe UPS has geniously made contributions via Teamsters prodding on our behalf. $856 a month just for our pension, but of course there are some that disagree that this isn't enough.
Red, nationally since the 80's the union membership is on the decline. In 1980 there was 800 companies contributing to the fund. I believe now its 15 or 20. I might stand to be corrected. Red, don't you know that UPS is a good indicator of the US economy. That means pension earnings will plummet. If UPS goes in the tank, you and possibly many others could be out the door. I know as you have stated, you don't want this. Nobody does.
Red, I do have and like many others have a so called seperate plan, allready. Its called the 401k and its very popular. More popular than the MEP. Red and Jon, I hope you don't have a 401k plan because that would(with all do respect) make you a hypocrite. Again, walk the talk. The fact is that when all else fails, its the individual planned retirement(401k) in his own behalf that will be the total safeguard for that driver and his family. The plan I propose puts the power back into the hands of the common laborer. If UPS goes under in my plan you will still have your nest egg with your name on it. Under the MEP you will have no certian guarantee to get anything. Now since the feds have passed that new law you will be getting something, but it will be alot less.
In closing, Red this is a choice like I mentioned before. If you so choose you can stay in the MEP, but don't let your decision be dictated on someone else. Let the individual have the right to choose rather or not to stay in the plan or go with my plan. Freedom to choose. Options. Not a force it down your throat or else type of mentality. Again, CS is like Social Security. I'm 42, I and many others don't plan on getting any of it. As you have notice they have increased the age I believe to 67 early ,70 full and this is a government plan. To many active working UPS people in the CS plan they have seen this happen. Big change in their retirement bennies. A big fear of having nothing. I believe all that they have now, that is a sure thing is their 401k. Nobody, but themself can take that away.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Cole
Well-Known Member
Of course they are, but my point is if an agent does as little as they can, and makes no effort to educate members, then that weakness makes theirs more so. That's fantastic that your local goes to such lengths to educate your folks, that's what they should do, but many like the members to be in the dark, as it means less work/going to panel etc...for them.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Im sorry i must be missing something here. Im not force feeding anyone to stay in the cs plan, if anything area your doing your best to push everyone to abandon the current pension plan for something you havent even seen any details on as of yet. Unless of course your center manager and ups accountant had another closed door meeting with you? Please show us this better plan that you are planning on voting for!
705red
Browncafe Steward
I agrre brother cole, but t the same time we are talking about upsers. Alot of the upsers cant, dont, wont get involved on anything unless it directly involves them. How many upsers do you know of really that cares about the driver next to them? How many upsers do you know that will run all day even when they bust out the routes and he/she even got work from it. Why would the company put in the routes if they have drivers that will run to get it done and still be in under 9.5, just one example cole im sure we could list dozens.
tieguy
Banned
pkgdriver
Well-Known Member
Second time you've brought ENRON up RED. Give us the details about the ENRON retirement/401k plan please and what happened.
ENRON=CS more than my 401k does.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Thats just several links i just googled enron. I dont like bringing up enron but it need to be. I will try and look up other sep plans that bit the bullet and hung out its employees.
tieguy
Banned
They're really two completely different issues. Pension and 401k plans. The enron folks got in trouble because they were heavily vested in the company stock. When the stock crashed then their 401K's did to. By balancing out your portfolio you would not face the same risk. Same thing with a co-administered pension plan. If you have the right money managers in place then they will set up a diversified portfolio that balances the risk. Thats why an honest solution to CS has to address holding the money managers accountable.
tieguy
Banned
Let me give you another spin on this issue.
I have a friend who is a union president at one of the electrical unions I asked him how he chose the investment firms that invested their pension money. They said they were very picky and would try someone out with a small amount to see if they delivered good results. Well thats easy for someone who is faily knowledgable in investing. I can sink some money in a few international funds right now and gain a 20 percent return. The question is can I hold on to that money earned when the market turns sour. So I think when you select someone to invest the money you have to look at more then what that firm can do for you during the markets good years. Enrons 401k plans were heavily vested in enron stock. Good deal with great returns until someone started looking at the books.
I have a friend who is a union president at one of the electrical unions I asked him how he chose the investment firms that invested their pension money. They said they were very picky and would try someone out with a small amount to see if they delivered good results. Well thats easy for someone who is faily knowledgable in investing. I can sink some money in a few international funds right now and gain a 20 percent return. The question is can I hold on to that money earned when the market turns sour. So I think when you select someone to invest the money you have to look at more then what that firm can do for you during the markets good years. Enrons 401k plans were heavily vested in enron stock. Good deal with great returns until someone started looking at the books.
tieguy
Banned
enron had limitations on their 401 K plan which prohibited you from selling the company contributions by age limits. The employees ended up losing everything the company contributed into the 401 K but kept their contributions and the interest earned over the years.
It again highlights the importance of a sound investment plan with whatever means you rely on.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Originally Posted by 705red
ENRON!
The difference is;
Managers at one can be held liable.
At the other, it was the stock markets fault.
Yeah Right.
ENRON!
The difference is;
Managers at one can be held liable.
At the other, it was the stock markets fault.
Yeah Right.
Folks, I did some investigating. I called both the Joint council 83 pension plan and the CS pension plan. First, I hope you all are seated. Ok, Red one thing about the MEP is that it requires tons and tons of members to make it work. Now, if you don't have the membership what do you do. Force people to become members?
Krash and Upsdude are my fellow UPSers in the Teamsters Joint council 83 health and pension plan of Virginia. Please feel free to call the fund to verify my findings. Hang on folks, because here it goes. I called "83" first. I asked how much does UPS contribute to our pension on a weekly bases alone.
$273.60 a week for our pension ALONE. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
$222.10 a week for our health ins. ALONE. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Total the both up and it is a whopping $495.70 a week,folks $2,000 a month. GREAT DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UPS is partly to blame for the fund being "Underfunded". YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!! I don't want to hear that bull from Jon again. Second thought why can't I have the freedom of choice and UPS cut me the check for both and I will do my own retirement(of course), plus I would like to get my own Insurance(family). Remember, my choice others might not want too and I respect that. I have Veterans health bennies and my wife works at the hospital and our 16 year old son can be put on her ins.
Let me tell you this CS ers when I called 83 of va. I tried to kill two birds with one stone. So I asked do they know how much UPS pays weekly to the CS fund. She said she didn't know,but said they are a bit more reserved in giving out that PUBLIC info. No Joke, they did say that. Remember, CSers the Teamsters work for you. It is you that provide their PAYCHECK. Don't you ever forget that. I than asked her for the phone number and she gladly obliged.
Now, for the CS phone call. I called and got the automated answering service. Only 3 options. 1) For new members 2) Existing members 3) providers that was it. Hmmmmm, I hit "O" for operator thinking that would get me thru and it did. I asked the lady for the weekly UPS contributions to the CS fund and she said she didn't know and that she would have to check.(yeah right, LOL). The Lady put me on hold. I waited for about 15 minutes and had enough and hung up. Maybe someone here that is a CS member can try and get this PUBLIC info. I'm sure someone knows. The funny thing is that Joint 83 had pretty much open boarders as to where CS was closed boarders(fort knox).
In closing, I assume the UPS weekly contributions to the CS pension plan is the same or maybe a little less than the Joint 83. So, I will have you do the math. Don't forget to combine your 401k with your roth IRA or just plan IRA. It could very well add up to a million dollars in a 25 or 30 year period with strong earnings attached to it. Oh and one other thing there has been a long standing rumor about why CS is in the state its end. Here in Va. the top driver pay is $28.17 per hour. If the CS driver top pay is more than that than I will divulge the rumor. I need to know the top pay for a CS driver. I am not a fan of rumors, but I believe this rumor could be true if the top Pay in CS is greater than the top pay of a Joint 83 driver. It could get interesting. Side not for those that don't know Va. borders N.C. N.C. is one of the states that are in the CS plan. That is where the APWA was started.
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