Local 2727 update

[mrv]

I am a mechanic and this is not about throwing anyone under the bus,this is about doing what's best for my family and for those that are laid off or have low seniority good luck to you! Hope you get back soon but I will vote Yes on this contract just like the majority of the people will.I can't tell my creditors I can't pay my bills this month because I am providing finical aide to the laid mechanics at UPS.Sounds stupid doesn't it!So for me this contract is all about me and every other mechanic it's about them.51 percent of the people will not think as stupid as you sound and vote that same stupid way.No topped out mechanic is going to leave that money on the table.

Sounds like its time for you to go into Management. There's no place for guys like you in a Union.

BTW- I have been with UPS for over 20 years and along with many TOPPED out mechs its a NO vote. Since its all about you, a move to management should satisfy your selfish desires.

 

[Obi-Wan]

I am a mechanic and this is not about throwing anyone under the bus,this is about doing what's best for my family and for those that are laid off or have low seniority good luck to you! Hope you get back soon but I will vote Yes on this contract just like the majority of the people will.I can't tell my creditors I can't pay my bills this month because I am providing finical aide to the laid mechanics at UPS.Sounds stupid doesn't it!So for me this contract is all about me and every other mechanic it's about them.51 percent of the people will not think as stupid as you sound and vote that same stupid way.No topped out mechanic is going to leave that money on the table.

A smart mechanic will look at more than just the money. You have to read the fine print and make sure there are no loop holes left open. Don't jump for the bright shiny car, when it has a crappy engine in it, look under the hood first! When I talk a junior mechanic into taking a job with UPS and then the Union and members sell out the younger guys, I get ticked. I don't like the outsourcing language! I don't like the fact that the younger guys didn't get an even raise like we did! Just remember you can vote for the better of you now (me me me), but the younger generation might vote your healthcare to have astronomical monthly fees once you are retired. Don't screw the junior guys! "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

 

[luvubas]

I am a very smart mechanic,smart enough to know that my concern is for me and my family and not the younger mechanic that will vote my healthcare higher when I retire so he can take the money that the company is offering!I went through the crapy progression just like everyone else,and those mechanics that you talked into joining UPS had a choice.They did not have to take the job,they could have worked for American Eagle or some other outfit,they knew what they were getting when they joined we all have choices,if you don't like UPS then leave but for some reason I don't think that will happen,my only concern is what's best for me and my family so I want that bright shiny car! Everyone has a time to shine,for those with little seniority well ,this may not be your time to shine!

 

[geneva54]

Im not really understanding what the problem is with AMTs with less than 5 years seniority and still on wage progression?? When they get to 5 years with the company they would be at the top rate.......what is wrong with that?

As far as outsourcing...........it sucks in any way, shape or form. This country has opened the door to outsourcing and eventually there will be a payback..........our children.............their children and future generations for selling out companies and jobs overseas...............mainly to China. So this is not just UPS but at a National level in the name of greed.

 

[aquaholic5150]

Bob did the best that he could,and Joe would not have done any better.

In my opinion as well as others Combine came up short.Sure seems like a concessionary offer to me. There is nothing to lead me to believe Darmento could not do better. In fact he has brought back three contracts to us,one better than the other.

 

[aquaholic5150]

So when Joe was in charge, what work did he keep and not farm out? Did we lose any work? Did Joe bring new work in house?

I did a little homework and this is what I came up with. Darmento brought in the Pallet Shop, the O2 shops, exclusive use of UPS Wheel & Brake Shop for ALL Gateway W&B's. Before they got them delivered to gateways from vendors. He got the phase check, and all the conversions on the passenger operation when we had it. He got exclusive powering up and down of a/c and mechanics on headset. He got mechanics applicable rate for charter trips and tons of other work and new classifications. Including Utility in ANC and Flight Simulators Building. Plus LST's, MX Control jobs. Those LST jobs were formerly staffed with management.The membership went from 600 to 1300 strong from the time he took office in 1996 until he was foolishly voted out. What can Combine hang his hat on? A partial retro check, language for outsourcing of 747 &767 work, language for split shifts for training and over 1700 days of negotiations etc..... BTW, everyone said Joe couldn't do any better in 1996. Guess what. He doubled the money and enhanced the OT rules, added vacation premiums etc. It is impossible to tell you everything!

 

[Lue C Fur]

I did a little homework and this is what I came up with. Darmento brought in the Pallet Shop, the O2 shops, exclusive use of UPS Wheel & Brake Shop for ALL Gateway W&B's. Before they got them delivered to gateways from vendors. He got the phase check, and all the conversions on the passenger operation when we had it. He got exclusive powering up and down of a/c and mechanics on headset. He got mechanics applicable rate for charter trips and tons of other work and new classifications. Including Utility in ANC and Flight Simulators Building. Plus LST's, MX Control jobs. Those LST jobs were formerly staffed with management.The membership went from 600 to 1300 strong from the time he took office in 1996 until he was foolishly voted out. What can Combine hang his hat on? A partial retro check, language for outsourcing of 747 &767 work, language for split shifts for training and over 1700 days of negotiations etc..... BTW, everyone said Joe couldn't do any better in 1996. Guess what. He doubled the money and enhanced the OT rules, added vacation premiums etc. It is impossible to tell you everything!

Wow!!! If Joe was so great...why was he overwhelming voted out of office, not once, not twice, but 3 times? Maybe Joe sucks at campaigning...

 

[Fur-low]

Im not really understanding what the problem is with AMTs with less than 5 years seniority and still on wage progression?? When they get to 5 years with the company they would be at the top rate.......what is wrong with that?

As far as outsourcing...........it sucks in any way, shape or form. This country has opened the door to outsourcing and eventually there will be a payback..........our children.............their children and future generations for selling out companies and jobs overseas...............mainly to China. So this is not just UPS but at a National level in the name of greed.

Wage progression stops after 2 yrs.

 

[geneva54]

Wage progression stops after 2 yrs.

Are you sure? I must be missing something. Wage Progression Chart B gives raises for 4 years then at the bottom it mentions:
Employee receives Top Rate in A above after completion of wage progression schedule

 

[Obi-Wan]

Im not really understanding what the problem is with AMTs with less than 5 years seniority and still on wage progression?? When they get to 5 years with the company they would be at the top rate.......what is wrong with that?

I see nothing wrong with the 5 year wage progression, everyone has to do it, the problem is that everyone from top to bottom should get the $3.75 raise the day the contract is ratified, the way it is now, the bottom guys will only get a max $.83 raise. If it were the other way around where the top guys got the $.83 raise, would the TA be so great?

 

[mrv]

Progression should be even, our work should not be outsourced. 50 bucks and hour will not look so good when our jobs fly away to China.

Scope is everything, without scope we have nothing. We gave up scope for 50 bucks, and that's a bad deal!

 

[luvubas]

I see nothing wrong with the 5 year wage progression, everyone has to do it, the problem is that everyone from top to bottom should get the $3.75 raise the day the contract is ratified, the way it is now, the bottom guys will only get a max $.83 raise. If it were the other way around where the top guys got the $.83 raise, would the TA be so great?

The bottom line is when you reach top pay that amount is $50.31,no other mechanic group in aviation can say that.You will never please 100 percent of the people so please the majority.

 

[mymistake]

First time post here, after reading this site for many years I finally decided to speak up. The 2 year wage progression does stop for mechanics on lay-off from the way I interpet things. So the guys laid off in the first round have there wage progression stopped this month but senority still continues for another 5 years. If 5 years from this month comes and they have not been re-called then they are seperated from UPS. As the 5 year and below pay scale is proposed I have a few comments. Everyone knows there is a huge insult pay raise at 4 years and 364 days to year 5. Every has dealt with it and nobody likes it, all agreed. But, this new contract even takes it to a worse extreme. The guys with less than 5 years are working on pay raises set way back at the begining of the last contract in 2001 correct. So in a ten year time span the pay was set at 21.00 after Nov 2006 and as of today Feb 10 it only goes up .63 cents. Even the senior guys have to agree it is wrong. Yes they are still getting step raises that were agreed to 2001 but what about standard COLA. 5 year and above guys are getting almost 9% raise while the rest of people are getting 3%. I agree that there will be a dollar value differance but there should be the same % for each person. If one mechanic gets 9% then the other mechanics should also get 9%, isn't that how a union works? Just look at the retro for the junior people, it is set on a 3% a year raise but then they actually only will get the one 3% pay raise. That is about as smart as allowing for more work to be "farmed" out. A high paying job is only good if its there for you to go to and if you agree to even one more check being done overseas, well than that one job might be yours that goes with it. Just a little advice from and old guy getting ready to leave.

 

[geneva54]

The bottom line is when you reach top pay that amount is $50.31,no other mechanic group in aviation can say that.You will never please 100 percent of the people so please the majority.

I have to agree with you on that. Im not sure that it is unfair for people who were hired after our contract expired and did not have to sit through 5 years of waiting for a new contract with better pay. Remember most of us havent had a raise in 5 years!!!
When you get hired in at the bottom of the senority list you have to do your time............sorry but no "instant gratification" that everyone seems to want these days. You do eventually reach the top pay...........but of course the contract expires in 2013 so anything can happen after that.

 

[Obi-Wan]

First time post here, after reading this site for many years I finally decided to speak up. The 2 year wage progression does stop for mechanics on lay-off from the way I interpet things. So the guys laid off in the first round have there wage progression stopped this month but senority still continues for another 5 years. If 5 years from this month comes and they have not been re-called then they are seperated from UPS. As the 5 year and below pay scale is proposed I have a few comments. Everyone knows there is a huge insult pay raise at 4 years and 364 days to year 5. Every has dealt with it and nobody likes it, all agreed. But, this new contract even takes it to a worse extreme. The guys with less than 5 years are working on pay raises set way back at the begining of the last contract in 2001 correct. So in a ten year time span the pay was set at 21.00 after Nov 2006 and as of today Feb 10 it only goes up .63 cents. Even the senior guys have to agree it is wrong. Yes they are still getting step raises that were agreed to 2001 but what about standard COLA. 5 year and above guys are getting almost 9% raise while the rest of people are getting 3%. I agree that there will be a dollar value differance but there should be the same % for each person. If one mechanic gets 9% then the other mechanics should also get 9%, isn't that how a union works? Just look at the retro for the junior people, it is set on a 3% a year raise but then they actually only will get the one 3% pay raise. That is about as smart as allowing for more work to be "farmed" out. A high paying job is only good if its there for you to go to and if you agree to even one more check being done overseas, well than that one job might be yours that goes with it. Just a little advice from and old guy getting ready to leave.

Good first post! Well said!

 

[Obi-Wan]

I have to agree with you on that. Im not sure that it is unfair for people who were hired after our contract expired and did not have to sit through 5 years of waiting for a new contract with better pay. Remember most of us havent had a raise in 5 years!!!
When you get hired in at the bottom of the senority list you have to do your time............sorry but no "instant gratification" that everyone seems to want these days. You do eventually reach the top pay...........but of course the contract expires in 2013 so anything can happen after that.

It is unfair, they are doing their time. The bottom guys are getting screwed, not getting the same even raise topped out guys are getting. 10 years pass and the starting pay increases by pennies? Starting pay went up by almost $6 the last contract Joe got us. I agree they shouldn't jump up to what a topped out guy is getting, they should at least get the $3.75 raise rather than the "Pennies" raise and then continue on their 5 year wage progression.

 

[UPSSOCKS]

I must apologize sounds like this was a big win.. It always ends the same ladies... Airbusfxr talked myths of how he would go to strike for his ground employees but he is celebrating the fact that his own air teamsters just got screwed. That's ok everyone sees things a different way. I see it as a win for the company. We pay off a small percentage of higher seniority guys and in return they screw of the lesser seniorities and mechanics we will hire in the future. Wow some brotherhood.. Don't forget to pay your dues!!!!!

 

[UPSSOCKS]

This tells us how much you know...nada. Now go put your knee pads back on and a polish Warrens shoes.

Sorry I forgot your a teamster let me be more specific. "We pay a small percentage of the workforce, being the higher seniority airline mechanics and the younger teamsters that need the money get screwed" This deal that Airbusfxr is celebrating will also make certain that anyone new airline teamsters get the shaft too..

 

[airbusfxr]

Upssux, thanks for showing us again you know nothing about "your airline". Pay up your bet on page 9 and go pay for your health care. 90% of the mechanics are topped out and we got 3% a year, free health care, retro, etc etc. It will be voted in and now our ground brothers will also get the free health care in their upcoming contract. With Bob we lost because these SDFers wanted Joe out and now they will get Sea Rays instead of Cobalts. Upssux the mechanic base pay will be 104k in 2013. You should be happy because Joe would have got us 120k. If 75 AMTs retire I hope everyone will be brought back and by 2013 have Joe and Jack pick up the pieces that SDFers let squandered.

 

[aquaholic5150]

Wow!!! If Joe was so great...why was he overwhelming voted out of office, not once, not twice, but 3 times? Maybe Joe sucks at campaigning...

Joe was voted out of office because he is surrounded by people who came from mostly defunked non-scheduled airlines with no union, or 20 year military guys, also no-union and strike replacements (scabs) who do not have a clue about what and why unions operate in certain ways.I bet if you were to do a survey you will find that about everyone who came from TWA, PanAm, Eastern, United, USAir, Northwest, American etc understands how a true airline union works and supports Joe.
As far not campaigning very well, your are very right. He didn't blow smoke up anyone's butt to get their vote.