Management EBO-Rumor

[tourists24]

Nice spin Sober ... I think you could have a second career in sales.

Spin? Looks to me that this was a response to spin itself. I remember when the whole team concept was being pushed in our center. It was causing many more problems than it was fixing. Even before it was completely in place, we were already having driver vs. driver situations on a daily basis. Just like everything else at UPS; if it looks good on paper, it must work.

 

[tourists24]

How did I miss this thread, I am all through it? Anyhow why are you union bums so concerned with management changes?You guys just go to work and work as instructed. you don't have a voice in any of the changes that will take place, nor do any of the changes concern you. You are not a part of this company. After the changes in 2010, teamsters will still be at the bottom of the totem pole taking orders from 18 year old part time supervisors. What you guys should be worrying about is, who is going to steal your union dues this year.

Believe it or not Socks, having a sup like you would be very easy to work for. I dont think it's good for UPS, but easy none the less.

You guys just go to work and work as instructed.

This is when I say just turn the brain off and do exactly what you just said. If one is a driver, that means running strictly by EDD regardless if it makes sense or not. Takes away a lot of the caring about service, customers, or anything else for that matter. Just be careful what you ask for.

You are not a part of this company.

Again, be careful what you ask for. If a robot is what you want, that comes with good and bad.

Not sure if you are for real or not, but even if you're not, you do represent a type of supervisor that seems to be more common as time goes on. You do have your diehard union supporters, but most do care about UPS interests and customer service too. When you get this type of sup, it changes that attitude.

 

[pretzel_man]

Spin? Looks to me that this was a response to spin itself. I remember when the whole team concept was being pushed in our center. It was causing many more problems than it was fixing. Even before it was completely in place, we were already having driver vs. driver situations on a daily basis. Just like everything else at UPS; if it looks good on paper, it must work.

Well, here is some of the back story I have been told. I think its accurate, but I don't know this first hand. (Warning- this is long)

Oz Nelson was our CEO, and his background was in Customer Service. He pushed for UPS to be more customer oriented and believed in expanding our technology. I met him a few times, and he seemed like a good and honest person. So far, so good.....

He hired the Atlanta Consulting Group. That group concluded that our focus on efficiency was a problem, and that we should not be "The Tightest Ship in the Shipping Business".

Oz was a big proponent of this and advanced the whole push for "Quality" including the team approaches in the operations. There really was a lot of good in this "kinder / gentler" UPS and I still have a candid video of Oz discussing this approach.

What they missed big time, was that efficiency was part of our culture. They also missed that efficiency, teamwork, and good service are not necessarily conflicting goals.

Teams were put in place in many, many centers. In some places management fought the change. In others the Teamsters did.

What was consistent however is that in nearly every place BOTH cost and service got worse. We stopped paying attention to details.

Then, Oz is replaced by Jim Kelly, an operator. Rumor is that Jim never liked the Atlanta Consulting Group approach.

Finally, 1997 hit. Cost and service is poor, and we cannot reach a contract with the Teamsters (I do not want to get into who's fault that is...).

Poor cost, poor service, and poor contract negotiation was three strikes for the ACG and the UPS quality initiative (including driver teams). I'm sure that they would say UPS didn't give it a fair shake.... Others would say that the journey only led to poor cost and service.

To this day however, Oz is seen as a weak CEO and Kelly a strong one. I heard that at the centennial management conference, Oz got almost no applause and Jim a huge ovation....

By the way, in a different thread, there was an assertion as to why UPS started DPS and PAS. One major reason was the poor cost and service picture in 1996 and 1997. By the time DPS and PAS was deployed, much of the lost service and cost had improved, just by more attention to detail. (at least that's what many believe.)

P-Man

 

[island1fox]

Well, here is some of the back story I have been told. I think its accurate, but I don't know this first hand. (Warning- this is long)

Oz Nelson was our CEO, and his background was in Customer Service. He pushed for UPS to be more customer oriented and believed in expanding our technology. I met him a few times, and he seemed like a good and honest person. So far, so good.....

He hired the Atlanta Consulting Group. That group concluded that our focus on efficiency was a problem, and that we should not be "The Tightest Ship in the Shipping Business".

Oz was a big proponent of this and advanced the whole push for "Quality" including the team approaches in the operations. There really was a lot of good in this "kinder / gentler" UPS and I still have a candid video of Oz discussing this approach.

What they missed big time, was that efficiency was part of our culture. They also missed that efficiency, teamwork, and good service are not necessarily conflicting goals.

Teams were put in place in many, many centers. In some places management fought the change. In others the Teamsters did.

What was consistent however is that in nearly every place BOTH cost and service got worse. We stopped paying attention to details.

Then, Oz is replaced by Jim Kelly, an operator. Rumor is that Jim never liked the Atlanta Consulting Group approach.

Finally, 1997 hit. Cost and service is poor, and we cannot reach a contract with the Teamsters (I do not want to get into who's fault that is...).

Poor cost, poor service, and poor contract negotiation was three strikes for the ACG and the UPS quality initiative (including driver teams). I'm sure that they would say UPS didn't give it a fair shake.... Others would say that the journey only led to poor cost and service.

To this day however, Oz is seen as a weak CEO and Kelly a strong one. I heard that at the centennial management conference, Oz got almost no applause and Jim a huge ovation....

By the way, in a different thread, there was an assertion as to why UPS started DPS and PAS. One major reason was the poor cost and service picture in 1996 and 1997. By the time DPS and PAS was deployed, much of the lost service and cost had improved, just by more attention to detail. (at least that's what many believe.)

P-Man

P-MAN,
I have been retired for five years now ---but lived through the events you described both International and Domestic. You were very accurate in your post.
Also it bought back many funny memories. In Europe -in many countries there is a much different relationship with Mgmt vs Hourly. In some case getting European Managers to just give PCM's to hourlies was a challenge.
There truly was a "caste" system in place.
I laugh because as much as Ups told me to 'THINK" like the country I was working in ---they forced the team concept into a culture that would NEVER accept it. Some Funny Times!! Failed because of culture --we did not have "Teamsters" over there ----but did have to work through some other very radical unions !!!!

 

[Catatonic]

Spin? Looks to me that this was a response to spin itself. I remember when the whole team concept was being pushed in our center. It was causing many more problems than it was fixing. Even before it was completely in place, we were already having driver vs. driver situations on a daily basis. Just like everything else at UPS; if it looks good on paper, it must work.

Well, here is some of the back story I have been told. I think its accurate, but I don't know this first hand. (Warning- this is long)

Oz Nelson was our CEO, and his background was in Customer Service. He pushed for UPS to be more customer oriented and believed in expanding our technology. I met him a few times, and he seemed like a good and honest person. So far, so good.....

He hired the Atlanta Consulting Group. That group concluded that our focus on efficiency was a problem, and that we should not be "The Tightest Ship in the Shipping Business".

Oz was a big proponent of this and advanced the whole push for "Quality" including the team approaches in the operations. There really was a lot of good in this "kinder / gentler" UPS and I still have a candid video of Oz discussing this approach.

What they missed big time, was that efficiency was part of our culture. They also missed that efficiency, teamwork, and good service are not necessarily conflicting goals.

Teams were put in place in many, many centers. In some places management fought the change. In others the Teamsters did.

What was consistent however is that in nearly every place BOTH cost and service got worse. We stopped paying attention to details.

Then, Oz is replaced by Jim Kelly, an operator. Rumor is that Jim never liked the Atlanta Consulting Group approach.

Finally, 1997 hit. Cost and service is poor, and we cannot reach a contract with the Teamsters (I do not want to get into who's fault that is...).

Poor cost, poor service, and poor contract negotiation was three strikes for the ACG and the UPS quality initiative (including driver teams). I'm sure that they would say UPS didn't give it a fair shake.... Others would say that the journey only led to poor cost and service.

To this day however, Oz is seen as a weak CEO and Kelly a strong one. I heard that at the centennial management conference, Oz got almost no applause and Jim a huge ovation....

By the way, in a different thread, there was an assertion as to why UPS started DPS and PAS. One major reason was the poor cost and service picture in 1996 and 1997. By the time DPS and PAS was deployed, much of the lost service and cost had improved, just by more attention to detail. (at least that's what many believe.)

P-Man

I respect your input from the actual center implementation level Tour and I remember the general outline that P-man laid out. What I also remember was that the Teamsters were very much against this (remember, this was during the Carey regime) because their belief was this would cause more of a team approach between management and the drivers.
The fact that the Teamsters leadership came out against this approach before it was even implemented was what I was reacting to when I said "nice spin".
I guess everybody has their own memories of a failed program.

 

[pretzel_man]

P-MAN,
I have been retired for five years now ---but lived through the events you described both International and Domestic. You were very accurate in your post.
Also it bought back many funny memories. In Europe -in many countries there is a much different relationship with Mgmt vs Hourly. In some case getting European Managers to just give PCM's to hourlies was a challenge.
There truly was a "caste" system in place.
I laugh because as much as Ups told me to 'THINK" like the country I was working in ---they forced the team concept into a culture that would NEVER accept it. Some Funny Times!! Failed because of culture --we did not have "Teamsters" over there ----but did have to work through some other very radical unions !!!!

Island,

I also spend time in Europe. Very intersting relationships indeed. I certainly mad mistakes by not understanding the culture as well as the government rules.

However, I did find management much more focused on P&L as compared to the US.

P-Man

 

[island1fox]

Island,

I also spend time in Europe. Very intersting relationships indeed. I certainly mad mistakes by not understanding the culture as well as the government rules.

However, I did find management much more focused on P&L as compared to the US.

P-Man

P-Man,
I certainly know my ten years in International made me a much better business person -----it would be stange but -not out of the question --we might have crossed paths many times in our careers !!!
It used to always make me laugh how Corporate and region could be so out of touch with the realities in some of the other countries. I remember a Region Mgr giving me a hard time to increase PPH in the hub operations by reducing the staffing.
I informed hin --the employees we had --were "contract" employees --would be paid worked or not!
There were only in reality two ways to increase the PPH ----Increase the volume or go through the very long and extensive"social plan" process to reduce staffing --usually a 12 month process --that had to be approved by the government !!!!! The same applied for many of the "U.S." measurements such as SPOR. Also --contribution on the reports became much less important --when you dropped the U.S. mentality --and truly lived by and analyzed the P/L reports . Good memories --now that I am happily retired !!

 

[tourists24]

I respect your input from the actual center implementation level Tour and I remember the general outline that P-man laid out. What I also remember was that the Teamsters were very much against this (remember, this was during the Carey regime) because their belief was this would cause more of a team approach between management and the drivers.
The fact that the Teamsters leadership came out against this approach before it was even implemented was what I was reacting to when I said "nice spin".
I guess everybody has their own memories of a failed program.

It does bring back memories that's for sure. All of the posts since our posts have been pretty much on target and informative. Yours now also. I know things were rough when Carey was in, but I still liked the Teamsters more then than the way it is run now (I know a lot wont agree with me there). Funny how it was said how little Oz was respected; he was one of my favorites. I do wish though that Jack Kelley wouldve replaced him instead of Jim Kelly, but that's neither here nor there now.

 

[jimmythetech]

I am hearing that the retirement age with full benefits will be raised. Those eligible for the early out can go now under the current plan, but if they stay they are going to have to work longer to end up at the same level of benefits. Anyone else hear the same thing?

I heard the same thing - that the age for retirement would be raised to 59. That rumor was not substantiated by more than one or two people so I am not sure about that one.
I also don't know what that would do for the company? Unless they are paying retirement for too long because people live longer? Maybe they should allow smoking in the building again...

 

[pkgjockey]

It's funny to keep seeing the reference to "old guys"....and realize you are now one of them! And Happy Anniversary to .....ME! 30 Years!

 

[over9five]

Welcome to Brown Cafe, PkgJockey!

And Happy Anniversary!

 

[Dustyroads]

Congratulations Pkgjockey, that is a real milestone. I'm sure you've seen a lot come and go in that time. I know the funny feeling, it reminds me of the time we had late air and all of the drivers were on the belts loading their cars, and a new, young loader came down the belt with a package, saying...I'm supposed to give this to "the old guy down here". I looked around, and then raised my hand...

 

[randomUPSISer]

I heard the same thing - that the age for retirement would be raised to 59. That rumor was not substantiated by more than one or two people so I am not sure about that one.
I also don't know what that would do for the company? Unless they are paying retirement for too long because people live longer? Maybe they should allow smoking in the building again...

Short term Id say it would force out those who are sitting on the fence eligible for retirement to go ahead and do it.

 

[tonyexpress]

Welcome to Brown Cafe, PkgJockey!

And Happy Anniversary!

What he said...and Congratulations!

 

[sosocal]

here is how the EBO goes down -52 or 53 and older will get a pension enhancement (Bridge of pension benifits) --maybe some token cash as well (weighted towards the already 55 crowd) - IF you choose to stick around you may very likely become "downsized" in your grade and compensation (with the consolidation). If you are, that "downsize" will be part of your pension calculation when you get there on your own terms...Roll the dice baby...or take the certain??-- This is my guess on how this goes down--And I am super smart!

 

[gimmeabreak]

here is how the EBO goes down -52 or 53 and older will get a pension enhancement (Bridge of pension benifits) --maybe some token cash as well (weighted towards the already 55 crowd) - IF you choose to stick around you may very likely become "downsized" in your grade and compensation (with the consolidation). If you are, that "downsize" will be part of your pension calculation when you get there on your own terms...Roll the dice baby...or take the certain??-- This is my guess on how this goes down--And I am super smart!

for everyone in the company or just those in Operations??

 

[pretzel_man]

Unless "pretzel_man' confirms a buyout for management ,with details,for 2010,it is only a rumor. He certainly was accurate with information in 2008.

Confirmed (99%)... Announcement tomorrow.

 

[seagull4]

For fun,this is what I heard and we will see if it is correct;
3 waves of EBO's
1st wave - targets grade 18
2nd wave - targets district managers
3rd wave -If not enough people from earlier wave took the buyout offer,it will be offered to managers and supervisors 53 and older.

I hope I am wrong- I'm a 54 year old supervisor, with 33 years and would like a offer now.

 

[brown lifer]

I was hoping P-man would give us some details. So many rumors today........one I heard is that all eligible employees are getting a NDA ltr tomorrow with your "package details" enclosed. My gut is that 18 and above will be offered first. Just wondering how long they will have to decide before it gets down to the sup level. I am 52 with 31 yrs and excited to see whats going to happen.

 

[Why?]

so...think announcement will be EBO and consolidations or just EBO?