Management SRP/EBO Sad & Happy Faces
- Thread starter Six Sides
- Start date
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
Life isn't fair. None of us get dealt the same cards. Even when I retired there was an associate of mine who was transferred to UPS Freight. He was retiring the same year and also got a buyout package. Again.... that's life! It is the same reason we were told not to discuss our salaries. Someone is always going to be on the other side. I feel bad that some of you may feel the wrath of these people who can't deal with it. There is little consolation in that fact. The only good thing is that this will all shake out in the next few months and things will get back to normal. Thirteen years ago, UPS had it's first buyout and ERO and there were lessons learned from that. It took some time to get back to normal. We lost some very talented people and struggled through the reorganization. But the company and all of us who remained did survive and became better for it. You will too.
Culture is dead
The culture at UPS is dead. If you notice,the policy book is rarely read at meetings anymore. If you recall.,BD was excluded fron the EBO. They said attrition rate would take care of excessive management. Right,every BD person,period,goes on a 30-60-90 at the start of the first quarter of 2010.That is how the company plans to deal with excessive managemnt in BD. I thought I would never see the day.Well,we took care of the fat cats at the top didn't we? Very sad.
The culture at UPS is dead. If you notice,the policy book is rarely read at meetings anymore. If you recall.,BD was excluded fron the EBO. They said attrition rate would take care of excessive management. Right,every BD person,period,goes on a 30-60-90 at the start of the first quarter of 2010.That is how the company plans to deal with excessive managemnt in BD. I thought I would never see the day.Well,we took care of the fat cats at the top didn't we? Very sad.
SignificantOwner
A Package Center Manager
Please explain what's better now compared to 13 yrs ago.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
You can make arguments for each side. That is part of my comment above. Thirteen years ago, there was no history of how this was going to shake out. There have been successive buyouts since then. UPS lost people at every management level. As a company we were not prepared for the fallout back then. I think this time around, the company has a better plan to take advantage of the experience that will remain once the dust has settled. I don't want to speculate to much but the process for the cream rising to the top is being put in place as this moves forward. That didn't happen in the first ERO/BO. The management committee has identified the cutoff at managers and above who are in package operations. Supervisors are not affected (right now) and that gives you a solid front line base. The managers who are left will be cherry-picked for certain positions of responsibility based on their capabilities.
As for the post about the 30-60-90.... This is called accountability. I always worked as if I could be put on notice. It makes you better. This is not something that you should be afraid of. Welcome the challenge and strive to meet the demands. I would much rather work for a company that is getting rid of the dead wood. I guess you might feel differently if you are dead wood! LOL!
As for the post about the 30-60-90.... This is called accountability. I always worked as if I could be put on notice. It makes you better. This is not something that you should be afraid of. Welcome the challenge and strive to meet the demands. I would much rather work for a company that is getting rid of the dead wood. I guess you might feel differently if you are dead wood! LOL!
Highwayman
Well-Known Member
I think we have some MAD faces around here!
Raw
Raw Member
80% of UPS management is dead wood from my experience. The other 20% is outstanding.
worldwide
Well-Known Member
Re: Culture is dead
If someone in sales can't sell and can't make their numbers, why should they continue to be employed in sales? I can't think of many professional sales forces that allow sales people who can't sell to continue their employment. Is the culture at UPS dead? No, but it is changing. In the past, BD was "customer service" and was the home of some that did not really fit in at other departments so they were sent to customer service since they could not really do much damage. This was back in the days before RPS and any meaningful competition--customer service really did not have to sell anything as UPS was really the only game in town and customer service were more order takers and customer maintenance than true sales people.
It's a very different world now---lots of competition to deal with and global supply chains are a complicated thing. Just becuase you are a good driver, a good sorter or a good I.E. planner does not mean you will be a good sales person. IMHO, UPS has recognized this and is changing to adapt. I think that in 5-10 years, the sales force will be made up of true sales professionals and a majority of them come from outside of UPS. The pay structure will change and there will be more upside potential for those that sell and bring in the high revenue packages. Sales is tough--if you don't like the constant pressure to perform, it's not the place for you. If you can't bring in more money that is paid to you on a consistent basis, what are you adding to the bottom line? Harsh? Yes--but that is the world of sales.
If someone in sales can't sell and can't make their numbers, why should they continue to be employed in sales? I can't think of many professional sales forces that allow sales people who can't sell to continue their employment. Is the culture at UPS dead? No, but it is changing. In the past, BD was "customer service" and was the home of some that did not really fit in at other departments so they were sent to customer service since they could not really do much damage. This was back in the days before RPS and any meaningful competition--customer service really did not have to sell anything as UPS was really the only game in town and customer service were more order takers and customer maintenance than true sales people.
It's a very different world now---lots of competition to deal with and global supply chains are a complicated thing. Just becuase you are a good driver, a good sorter or a good I.E. planner does not mean you will be a good sales person. IMHO, UPS has recognized this and is changing to adapt. I think that in 5-10 years, the sales force will be made up of true sales professionals and a majority of them come from outside of UPS. The pay structure will change and there will be more upside potential for those that sell and bring in the high revenue packages. Sales is tough--if you don't like the constant pressure to perform, it's not the place for you. If you can't bring in more money that is paid to you on a consistent basis, what are you adding to the bottom line? Harsh? Yes--but that is the world of sales.
This is not the same as prior buyouts. This one has different levels of separation packages based on age and level of management. The 50-53 age group from grade 18 up is offered not much; cash, no benefits and normal retirement at age 65. The 54+ age group for all levels of management except supervisors is offered cash, stock, benefits and pension starting in April or when they turn 55 in 2010. The way this is being applied is not equal to all age groups and levels of management. A company can not cherry pick a voluntary buyout. It must have an equal standard, like the rule of 80 for all management levels.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Six sides,
What law are you referring to ??
When you are in management you are classified as an "employee at will" Ups can terminate your employment at any time !!!
What law tells UPS they cannot structure a multi level buyout plan to target and or incent where they have "surplus" management people ??
Ups does not even have to offer a buyout --they could just let them go !!!
Re: Culture is dead
I"m in sales and there are sales people that hate being on commission, and others who love it. Guess which ones are the better sales people? The structure isn't perfect, and you can still be a great sales person and get a crappy plan, but over time, the good sales people will make a LOT more money than they ever did before commission. I haven't heard much about the whole 30-60-90 thing - at least not in any different format than we had last year. I guess we will see how that plays out.
I"m in sales and there are sales people that hate being on commission, and others who love it. Guess which ones are the better sales people? The structure isn't perfect, and you can still be a great sales person and get a crappy plan, but over time, the good sales people will make a LOT more money than they ever did before commission. I haven't heard much about the whole 30-60-90 thing - at least not in any different format than we had last year. I guess we will see how that plays out.
Old Man Jingles
Rat out of a cage
Re: Culture is dead
I believe many of the Marketing people were on 30-60-90 and that this was a significant factor in these people's selection to be let go. Other considerations were QPR scores, Marketing assessment scores, excessive Leave of Absence, attendance, hours worked, etc.
Logical reasons plus the need to reduce Marketing positions in Corporate. Total Marketing staffing is suppose to be a wash so if new Marketing people are to be hired, positions had to "opened".
I believe many of the Marketing people were on 30-60-90 and that this was a significant factor in these people's selection to be let go. Other considerations were QPR scores, Marketing assessment scores, excessive Leave of Absence, attendance, hours worked, etc.
Logical reasons plus the need to reduce Marketing positions in Corporate. Total Marketing staffing is suppose to be a wash so if new Marketing people are to be hired, positions had to "opened".
upssalesguy
UPS Defender
Re: Culture is dead
yeah, until you get stuck with a business plan for a $3,000 a day shipper that switched to fedex the day they moved into your district. thanks for that. it's always fun to start the year fighting that kind of deficit where that location has no bearing in the decision. that means with business plan growth, i needd to find a $3400 per day customer in january just to keep pace. the thing about sales at this company is it is 90% uncontrollable.
sorry, had to rant. continue.
yeah, until you get stuck with a business plan for a $3,000 a day shipper that switched to fedex the day they moved into your district. thanks for that. it's always fun to start the year fighting that kind of deficit where that location has no bearing in the decision. that means with business plan growth, i needd to find a $3400 per day customer in january just to keep pace. the thing about sales at this company is it is 90% uncontrollable.
sorry, had to rant. continue.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
Re: Culture is dead
You never want to get to a point where you let "fate" (uncontrollable) dictate how you approach your job. You need to wipe that concept out of your mind and take control if you are going to continue to be successful. If you succumb to the idea that 90% of everything that happens is out of your control you will start justifying everything and .... you will be the next to be walked out. Get out there and start fighting for business. You will be successful.
You never want to get to a point where you let "fate" (uncontrollable) dictate how you approach your job. You need to wipe that concept out of your mind and take control if you are going to continue to be successful. If you succumb to the idea that 90% of everything that happens is out of your control you will start justifying everything and .... you will be the next to be walked out. Get out there and start fighting for business. You will be successful.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
Re: Culture is dead
I facilitated UPS workshops. One of the modules I covered was this subject.(100% vs. 0% Responsibility) ....AND over the course of my 20 + years as a manager led me to observation of successful and unsuccessful managers and what led up to their failure or success. 100% of the unsucessful managers always felt that things were mostly out of their control. Where as the successful managers felt they were in control of their destiny. Maybe it is the power of positive thinking that permeates the space around you and makes others feel you can succeed and willing to take risks and also invest in you as their leader. The same holds true in the opposite respect.
I facilitated UPS workshops. One of the modules I covered was this subject.(100% vs. 0% Responsibility) ....AND over the course of my 20 + years as a manager led me to observation of successful and unsuccessful managers and what led up to their failure or success. 100% of the unsucessful managers always felt that things were mostly out of their control. Where as the successful managers felt they were in control of their destiny. Maybe it is the power of positive thinking that permeates the space around you and makes others feel you can succeed and willing to take risks and also invest in you as their leader. The same holds true in the opposite respect.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Re: Culture is dead
Ups Lifer,
I spent most of my 36 years in management --and will just play "devils advocate" on this discussion.
Picture the new structure and the twenty districts or profit centers.
If your employment was to depend on results --which of the following two districts would you prefer --Florida or the old Metro New York, Maspeth, long island, the South Bronx and Conn ??
I agree you must be positive --but degree of difficulty should be considered --most times it is not.
I know RM very well --He worked for me in many various positions for many years --he is bright, motivated and talented --but will be very tested in this new district that at one time was in fact seven districts in a very tough labor climate--the big apple --804 !! It will be very different from the Utah District !!!
Ups Lifer,
I spent most of my 36 years in management --and will just play "devils advocate" on this discussion.
Picture the new structure and the twenty districts or profit centers.
If your employment was to depend on results --which of the following two districts would you prefer --Florida or the old Metro New York, Maspeth, long island, the South Bronx and Conn ??
I agree you must be positive --but degree of difficulty should be considered --most times it is not.
I know RM very well --He worked for me in many various positions for many years --he is bright, motivated and talented --but will be very tested in this new district that at one time was in fact seven districts in a very tough labor climate--the big apple --804 !! It will be very different from the Utah District !!!
Treegrower
Well-Known Member
Cream rises to the top does it? I can tell you 1st hand from 20 + years of delivering to a huge waste water treatment plant that sch&*%t floats too.
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