management vs hourly

[westsideworma]

I recently threw my hat into the management ring though I haven't accepted it yet (nor decided whether I will or not) and already people are turning. Even here someone mentioned ego because I think I'm qualified for it. Its not so much ego as it is that I'm more qualified than someone they hire off the street to train people on a job that they themselves have never done.

People who just give up and say thats just the way it is are whats wrong with this place (management and hourly). I understand I'll be nothing if I decide to join the management ranks, but thats basically what I am now as a preloader. Some management respect what I have to say, some don't, I really don't care, at least they heard it. If this place is to continue on as a RESPECTED market leader (and I don't mean that I am the person to do it...I'm not that vain), something needs to change. We can't keep employees and reliable ones are being cast out due to misloads/etc. due to a flawed system that was forced upon us and I think its ridiculous. Maybe if enough hourlies actually stepped up and said something (individually, in a group, I don't know), things would change. I go to our focus meetings, (attended by HR and our manager) and I tell them EXACTLY what is wrong where I am, and you know what? slowly but surely things have improved.

Not all management employees are @$$es, I can see from the many people on here that many are, but at my hub they are good people who are doing what they are told from above. However, they are tired of the shift sucking so much (I mean retention and attitude etc, not production...though according to the goals set that isn't so hot either) as a result and want our help to improve it, genuinely. Because every time an area has new people the operation suffers (ESPECIALLY THE FRICKIN SPA PEOPLE). If we can get them to stay, things will improve. I'd argue the wage has a lot to do with it (sticker slappers are only paid 8.50) but theres nothing anyone but UPS and the teamsters can do about that.

The squeezing workers till they blow up on you (and then get slapped with a warning letter) needs to stop. The job is the same as it was last year, yet last year 170PPH was acceptable, now they want 210PPH (I know there is no set rate, but that doesn't stop them from trying). Setting goals gives a person direction, setting ridiculous goals is setting someone up to fail. If people keep hearing they suck (sorry, are "least best") or never meet the goal thats been set they aren't gonna stick around because they just get to feeling who needs this? Especially for 8.50/9.50 an hour. Just because someone at IE says under PAS that should be attainable for everyone...how they know this I don't know. In my practice PAS has made me slower because I have to doublecheck labels now. Furthermore what the hell is IE doing dictating how this place works anyway? None of them have ever worked in operations for the most part aside from their simulations...those mean precisely jack to you and I.

I know I know it'll never happen. however if we're going to provide the service everyone is looking for, something needs to, and fast. People who worked here long before I did said while its always been us vs them to a degree, it was never as bad as it is now. On the preload end, PAS is not perfect, and anyone who swears it is and will do nothing to fix it, should be fired on the spot. I doubt PAS has saved us ANY money as with all the misloads and drivers on the clock longer (preloaders too despite their best efforts) because they're running a misload. In practice if you give someone 800 packages and give them 4/4.5 hours to do it they'll wrap it and that averages out to about 180 (178 actually)- 200 which is what PAS originally called for and then some...now its 210? come on. enough is enough already. I had a 800 piece for a bit and guess what? NO MISLOADS, got moved up to a 900-1100 piece pull in the same 4/4.5 hrs, 1 (or more) a day or every other day....hmmmmm how can they NOT see the correlation. Under the the old system I could load 240pph effortlessly for the most part, but now with the sticker peeling and checking etc, no way. not going to happen.

I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before. Its just something I noticed at work and something I had to get out. Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm right, agree or disagree, but say something I can't be alone on this.

 

[dillweed]

Bless your heart, I feel you really care. And you know what you're talking about.

I was once told by a very wise person that the only way to change a system is from within it. So best of luck and don't let the bastards wear you down! dw

 

[Channahon]

You bring up many good points in your post. And from previous posts, it's evident you know your job well and take pride in what you do.

Only you can make the decision regarding management at UPS.

I personally struggle with the title of this post. During my career I have managed both hourly and management. And quite honestly there isn't much difference when managing people. People are people, you need to know how to communicate, train, motivate, provide feedback and recognition.

Use the GOLDEN RULE and you will have the respect of your employees and peers.

Good luck in whichever path you choose.

 

[HazMatMan]

You bring up many good points in your post. And from previous posts, it's evident you know your job well and take pride in what you do.

Only you can make the decision regarding management at UPS.

I personally struggle with the title of this post. During my career I have managed both hourly and management. And quite honestly there isn't much difference when managing people. People are people, you need to know how to communicate, train, motivate, provide feedback and recognition.

Use the GOLDEN RULE and you will have the respect of your employees and peers.

Good luck in whichever path you choose.

I agree with you 100% on the communication, training, motivation, and feedback and recognition, but that is the problem nowadays at UPS, they make these kids (by kids I mean 18 to 25) supervisors and they have no idea what they are doing, how to run a belt or sort aisle, treat people with respect or any other aspect of running a multi-billion dollar company. I just don't get it..

 

[Will Work For PAS]

I like that you want to make things better. Nearly everyone that works at UPS (both mgt and hourly) wants to do a good job - even IE. Just remember that and tailor your approach accordingly when you get into management. Sounds like you have a serious issue with PAS that you need to deal with before you go into management though. Package flow technology isn't going away so you'll either have to be on board and trying to make it work or you'll have some seriously stressful years ahead.

 

[dillweed]

Most of the pt sups in our building still live with their parents. They haven't taken many of life's hard knocks yet and don't feel they ever will. Ah, the confidence of youth. dw

 

[disneyworld]

I put my letter in a few years ago only because I could feel my body really starting to wear down. Then I realized I didn't want to be a part of that atmosphere, you know, the kind that tells people everyday they suck. I decided to go back to school and get out altogether. It's not for everyone.

 

[westsideworma]

I put my letter in a few years ago only because I could feel my body really starting to wear down. Then I realized I didn't want to be a part of that atmosphere, you know, the kind that tells people everyday they suck. I decided to go back to school and get out altogether. It's not for everyone.

I too plan to go back to school, whether I take this job or not as our hub provides assistance to hourlies as well (some its only pt supes). Its just sad to see good people coming to work getting turned off by "the way we do things" here and quitting. Most of the people I talked to that think about quitting do so because of the none stop of perfectionist attitude most management types have....nothing is ever good enough. Theres a difference between high standards and perfectionism. If you're gonna pay people in peanuts (relatively) you better treat them decent or they're gonna walk (especially the PTers). I'm not saying baby them...because that does no good either, but ridiculing them for a job that some of the supes can't do any better (or in some cases, at ALL) is just laughable.

 

[westsideworma]

I agree with you 100% on the communication, training, motivation, and feedback and recognition, but that is the problem nowadays at UPS, they make these kids (by kids I mean 18 to 25) supervisors and they have no idea what they are doing, how to run a belt or sort aisle, treat people with respect or any other aspect of running a multi-billion dollar company. I just don't get it..

I just turned 25 haha, however I do know what you mean. I have been to college (degree in communications actually), I've worked with people my whole life so I think I have a little better idea than many my age. I've tried to keep as many newhires as possible and have been successful in many instances. One guy left because he no longer needed the extra income another.

Its not entirely the supervisors fault, they often have too much to do due to being understaffed or whatnot. If the company is really serious about improving service and keeping its employees it really needs to start studying the right things with their IE department, not trying to extract the most they can. How about extracting the most they ACCURATELY can? If misloads are the big problem...start thinking with your brain and not your wallet (purposely overworking people instead of hiring more to help the stock price). There is a point of diminishing returns and they've obviously found it as they pushing and pushing and while people are loading faster...misloads are more plentiful than ever.

 

[steffieup]

It is really up to you. If you want to change the perception of management you have to become one. Learn what not to do from the bad ones and take to heart what the good ones do. Bottom line...people are people no matter what side of the table they sit on. Good luck.

 

[canon]

If you have to tell someone they suck, say it with a smile.

If you plan on spending any amount of time in mgmt, drop all that "pas sucks" portion. Corporate has decided to go with this, and it will become your job to motivate people to do the best they can. I hope your experience there has taught you how not to do it.

Earn their respect and they'll work their butts off for you. Earn their friendship and they'll walk right over you.

 

[westsideworma]

If you have to tell someone they suck, say it with a smile.

If you plan on spending any amount of time in mgmt, drop all that "pas sucks" portion. Corporate has decided to go with this, and it will become your job to motivate people to do the best they can. I hope your experience there has taught you how not to do it.

Earn their respect and they'll work their butts off for you. Earn their friendship and they'll walk right over you.

see there lies the conflict (with me I mean). I do believe PAS in its current state is a joke. I know they've thrown so much money at it that its not going anywhere. Do I think it could be effective? sure, but not the way its being used right now. Much the same as the old way would have been better if they kept the alpha charts updated (for those who didn't know the pull). They can't even keep the bay numbers/route numbers updated so its really more of the same. Also telling people no stacking and whatnot, having done the job I know its damn near impossible to finish sometimes without stacking a certain stop/stops out. So they would know I don't really believe in what I'm saying in this case at least.

Believe me, by now, I do know how to and how not to motivate people. Telling someone that you're "only getting 600 pieces today so you better finish" isn't motivation. Or saying that "I can wrap the pull so you better be able to". Thats not motivation, yet I hear it everyday (not directed at me, but I still hear it). I'd hope you (supe saying it) can wrap the pull over a newhire, because if you can't what are you doing training them?

Thats another thing, most people on my shift know me, but they also know I show up everyday and I work hard. I'm not one of the people who slack off (and I don't know many people on our shift that do to be honest). I joke around and such but when our backs are against the wall I get it done as quickly and safely as possible. I have a 3 car pull that does the same volume as many 4 car ones (especially on heavy days) and its a real b*tch to try and shoehorn it into those trucks securely lol.

 

[over9five]

You'll get whipped into shape in Brainwash School. You'll forget where you came from, and forget what you used to stand for.

 

[LKLND3380]

I recently threw my hat into the management ring though I haven't accepted it yet (nor decided whether I will or not) and already people are turning. Even here someone mentioned ego because I think I'm qualified for it. Its not so much ego as it is that I'm more qualified than someone they hire off the street to train people on a job that they themselves have never done.

People who just give up and say thats just the way it is are whats wrong with this place (management and hourly). I understand I'll be nothing if I decide to join the management ranks, but thats basically what I am now as a preloader. Some management respect what I have to say, some don't, I really don't care, at least they heard it. If this place is to continue on as a RESPECTED market leader (and I don't mean that I am the person to do it...I'm not that vain), something needs to change. We can't keep employees and reliable ones are being cast out due to misloads/etc. due to a flawed system that was forced upon us and I think its ridiculous. Maybe if enough hourlies actually stepped up and said something (individually, in a group, I don't know), things would change. I go to our focus meetings, (attended by HR and our manager) and I tell them EXACTLY what is wrong where I am, and you know what? slowly but surely things have improved.

Not all management employees are @$$es, I can see from the many people on here that many are, but at my hub they are good people who are doing what they are told from above. However, they are tired of the shift sucking so much (I mean retention and attitude etc, not production...though according to the goals set that isn't so hot either) as a result and want our help to improve it, genuinely. Because every time an area has new people the operation suffers (ESPECIALLY THE FRICKIN SPA PEOPLE). If we can get them to stay, things will improve. I'd argue the wage has a lot to do with it (sticker slappers are only paid 8.50) but theres nothing anyone but UPS and the teamsters can do about that.

The squeezing workers till they blow up on you (and then get slapped with a warning letter) needs to stop. The job is the same as it was last year, yet last year 170PPH was acceptable, now they want 210PPH (I know there is no set rate, but that doesn't stop them from trying). Setting goals gives a person direction, setting ridiculous goals is setting someone up to fail. If people keep hearing they suck (sorry, are "least best") or never meet the goal thats been set they aren't gonna stick around because they just get to feeling who needs this? Especially for 8.50/9.50 an hour. Just because someone at IE says under PAS that should be attainable for everyone...how they know this I don't know. In my practice PAS has made me slower because I have to doublecheck labels now. Furthermore what the hell is IE doing dictating how this place works anyway? None of them have ever worked in operations for the most part aside from their simulations...those mean precisely jack to you and I.

I know I know it'll never happen. however if we're going to provide the service everyone is looking for, something needs to, and fast. People who worked here long before I did said while its always been us vs them to a degree, it was never as bad as it is now. On the preload end, PAS is not perfect, and anyone who swears it is and will do nothing to fix it, should be fired on the spot. I doubt PAS has saved us ANY money as with all the misloads and drivers on the clock longer (preloaders too despite their best efforts) because they're running a misload. In practice if you give someone 800 packages and give them 4/4.5 hours to do it they'll wrap it and that averages out to about 180 (178 actually)- 200 which is what PAS originally called for and then some...now its 210? come on. enough is enough already. I had a 800 piece for a bit and guess what? NO MISLOADS, got moved up to a 900-1100 piece pull in the same 4/4.5 hrs, 1 (or more) a day or every other day....hmmmmm how can they NOT see the correlation. Under the the old system I could load 240pph effortlessly for the most part, but now with the sticker peeling and checking etc, no way. not going to happen.

I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before. Its just something I noticed at work and something I had to get out. Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm right, agree or disagree, but say something I can't be alone on this.

We had a part time supe come on board a year and a half ago that felt the same way you do. She left last month to go work for another company...

 

[DS]

You'll get whipped into shape in Brainwash School. You'll forget where you came from, and forget what you used to stand for.

I`m sorry to sound negative,but from experience, I have to agree with over9five.As an individual you will not be able to change much more than your immediate work station.Pas is a much larger problem than the IE guys realize.They took jobs that used to be at the least,extremley challenging,yet with an attainable result,and made them impossible.
Before you make the big leap,heres an idea.Write a letter to
Mike Eskew and say basically what you said to start this thread.If he really cares what you think he will respond,although I`d be surprised if he`d admit that PAS has caused more problems than it solved.I`d be impressed if he agreed that work needs to be done,and hires you to help fix the problems.
Good Luck

 

[brownmonster]

Whatever you suggest to improve operations, morale, package flow, etc. will be overridden by today's printout from above.

 

[tieguy]

I`m sorry to sound negative,but from experience, I have to agree with over9five.As an individual you will not be able to change much more than your immediate work station.Pas is a much larger problem than the IE guys realize.They took jobs that used to be at the least,extremley challenging,yet with an attainable result,and made them impossible.
Before you make the big leap,heres an idea.Write a letter to
Mike Eskew and say basically what you said to start this thread.If he really cares what you think he will respond,although I`d be surprised if he`d admit that PAS has caused more problems than it solved.I`d be impressed if he agreed that work needs to be done,and hires you to help fix the problems.
Good Luck

Actually todays brainwash schools have changed. In todays world they preach employee relations, team building , empowerment etc. Unfortunately this philosophy has not always filtered down the way we would like.

 

[ptsup178]

I can't even take IE seriously at all because their 'plans' are completely out of reach and I can't even believe would work in a perfect world. I understand setting the standards high, which our business plan usually is, and we usually beat it, but setting them to a well known unreachable standard doesn't motivate anyone.

 

[Hangingon]

Actually todays brainwash schools have changed. In todays world they preach employee relations, team building , empowerment etc. Unfortunately this philosophy has not always filtered down the way we would like.

Wow, really? I haven't seen any of this from management of my center in at least 5 years. Taking a recent example our new center manager apologized to the center during a PCM for our obvious lack of proper training since none of us knew how to do our job. He told us that any driver properly trained could finish any route in the building under scratch. You could just see the morale dropping and the attitudes of the drivers hardening.

 

[aspenleaf]

I`m sorry to sound negative,but from experience, I have to agree with over9five.As an individual you will not be able to change much more than your immediate work station.Pas is a much larger problem than the IE guys realize.They took jobs that used to be at the least,extremley challenging,yet with an attainable result,and made them impossible.
Before you make the big leap,heres an idea.Write a letter to
Mike Eskew and say basically what you said to start this thread.If he really cares what you think he will respond,although I`d be surprised if he`d admit that PAS has caused more problems than it solved.I`d be impressed if he agreed that work needs to be done,and hires you to help fix the problems.
Good Luck

For the preload PAS is kinda nice (we don't have that many labels on the wrong box issues on my line). We have such a huge turnover that it helps to not have to use the old load charts. I am not sure how your centers run but PAS (even with the issues) seems to be heading in the right direction. I don't don't drive as you all know but my cover drivers love PAS as the truck is loaded stop for stop and matches EDD. My older guys hate PAS because it does not match the route the way they run it. You can work with the system or not but either way UPS seems to love it and it seems to be sticking around for a while; at least until the next plan to ruin your day comes along.

Westsideworma ~ goodluck if you choose to be a sup. I don't know what difference you will make but that depends on you and how you let others mold you.