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- Thread starter ihadit
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I would like to thank ihadit for mentioning my website; i received tens of hits on my website...hopefully someone will get inspired to do their own "local" agiatator. I started this newsletter because what had happened in local 804 since Ron Carey had left. Besides being the Pres of the Intl, Carey was also 804's leader. When he left and of course acquited of all the charges, our local Executive Board shunned him; they gave him no support at all ...not one of them showed up during his trial!!
Since then our Exec Bd has supported Hoffa and his "best contract ever". But we , the rank-and -file at 804, have continued to be reform-minded: voted for Ronnie in 91, 96...and Tom L in 97, 01, and 06!
Yet our Ex bd continues to win elections. Some good and descent rank-and-file members have valliently challenged them, but the exec officers seem to get the same 1100 or so members (out of 8000) to vote them back in. Its very frustrating...most members seemed uninformed and uninspired. It seems elections werent changing anything so i decided to do this newsletter in order to get the rankandfile informed about the issues and ideas they need to hear in order to make more informed choices before them..having an informed membership means having an empowered membership ...and an empowered membership makes fresh and bold choices...they know the issues and and need to be told "how to vote".
Anyway, I basically do this newsletter myself..so it s time consuming. But i get lots of feed back and ideas from members all the time..its always very positive. The Exec Bd isnt too thrilled but hey...they are elected officials...they have to learn to accept criticism and the fact that there is an insurgency within 804 who are unhappy with their "leadership".
I am going to the TDU convention this Nov to meet some other Teamster activists. Hope to see you there!
I solidarity, Agitator
Since then our Exec Bd has supported Hoffa and his "best contract ever". But we , the rank-and -file at 804, have continued to be reform-minded: voted for Ronnie in 91, 96...and Tom L in 97, 01, and 06!
Yet our Ex bd continues to win elections. Some good and descent rank-and-file members have valliently challenged them, but the exec officers seem to get the same 1100 or so members (out of 8000) to vote them back in. Its very frustrating...most members seemed uninformed and uninspired. It seems elections werent changing anything so i decided to do this newsletter in order to get the rankandfile informed about the issues and ideas they need to hear in order to make more informed choices before them..having an informed membership means having an empowered membership ...and an empowered membership makes fresh and bold choices...they know the issues and and need to be told "how to vote".
Anyway, I basically do this newsletter myself..so it s time consuming. But i get lots of feed back and ideas from members all the time..its always very positive. The Exec Bd isnt too thrilled but hey...they are elected officials...they have to learn to accept criticism and the fact that there is an insurgency within 804 who are unhappy with their "leadership".
I am going to the TDU convention this Nov to meet some other Teamster activists. Hope to see you there!
I solidarity, Agitator
It's amazing how some people can just keep following the 'leaders' like sheep! Use your brain, do some research and understand why some of our local unions are being ostracized by their members. Question your executive's antics.....you are supposedly being represented by them. Don't be so willing to fall for the "best contract ever" crap again!soon as I saw the TDU link, I closed that browser window.
bzzt wrong.
Good luck further dividing our union with the APWA prescence imminent too.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Fredless has a good point. I am a proud teamster and i also enjoy the tdu to a point. The problem with the tdu is that they only point out all the negatives and make them bigger in most cases that they really are. While at the same time never approve or preach teamster unity when the teamsters do right by the members, beside taking the teamsters side against the apwa. I do plan on attending the tdu convention on the 4th and 5th of november and i will bring this point up to everyone there.
Hey, 705Red... you say they "point out all the negatives " and that is a BAD thing?? Bro, someone has to! To this deaf and dumb leadership of our Intl, things couldn't be better; they are truly in denial about what's going on. Working America is under seige and it seems that Hoffa's incompetence is facilitating their attack!
Tell me: what are the positives! I don't see any.
Please define "unity" for me. Does it mean going over a cliff holding hands singing "kumbaiya"?? There are major differences within our union, but that's ok...that's democracy. Is it being against "unity" when we vote Democratic with a Republican President? No! Democracy is messy. A matter of fact one can say it strengthens the union by keeping our leaders on the toes and introducing fresh ideas into the mix, as well as allowing us to learn from bad mistakes.
We all stand united against Brown's greed, but is Hoffa the best we can do!!
in solidarity, agitator
Tell me: what are the positives! I don't see any.
Please define "unity" for me. Does it mean going over a cliff holding hands singing "kumbaiya"?? There are major differences within our union, but that's ok...that's democracy. Is it being against "unity" when we vote Democratic with a Republican President? No! Democracy is messy. A matter of fact one can say it strengthens the union by keeping our leaders on the toes and introducing fresh ideas into the mix, as well as allowing us to learn from bad mistakes.
We all stand united against Brown's greed, but is Hoffa the best we can do!!
in solidarity, agitator
705red
Browncafe Steward
Im all for pointing out the negatives, but if you are truley concerned with building a stronger union you have to point out the positives. Remember now an election was had and hoffa won. Now everyone here knows im not a hoffa supporter, i campaigned for leedham for a change, i was out in chicago with leedham and pope at several different 705 workshops not just ups.
The ibt administartion has done a decent job organizing, could it be bettre absolutely. Could we do better than hoffa, i sure hope so because i believe that we cant do that much worse, but who? Leedham was truley done after his 1st lose.
I like to see the glass more as half full then half empty and with all the negativity that the tdu brings out does hurt our organizing efforts.
If you are planning to go to the convention pm me and we will meet for a drink and continue our debate.
tieguy
Banned
seems to me your role is kind of like me getting a management position with fdx and then badmouthing ups.
ever try joining the beurorcracy and changing it from within. Perhaps being your own version of the ron carey you admire?
and if its not the best contract ever then what is it you want? Is there any part of this contract that you feel is good or is it all bad in your eyes?
ever try joining the beurorcracy and changing it from within. Perhaps being your own version of the ron carey you admire?
and if its not the best contract ever then what is it you want? Is there any part of this contract that you feel is good or is it all bad in your eyes?
Hey Tieguy... some of us have attempted to "join the bureaucracy" and "change it from within" here in 804, howver, it is difficult going up against entrenched power...Here at local 804, the home of Teamster reform under ron carey, we have to start from scratch to rebuild the reform movement after carey's departure...our Local leadership has fallen in with the hoffa forces and has basically sold out Carey's legacy.
On the "bestcontractever"(bce)...significant concessions ,contiuning the 2 tier wage system, more subcontracting, pension and benfit cuts, 6 yr contract, ptimers base wage remaining at $8.50 /hr t/o life of contract...article 40 issues...gap between pt and ft ers incresing which just plays into ups's hands...etc
Good points of that contract...some have psoke of wage increases BUT...living in NYC metro area...those increases just don't cut it..
And now Hoffa is marketing his newest product : the VERY best contract ever...wonderful...he's learned a new word in 5 years... help us all!
On the "bestcontractever"(bce)...significant concessions ,contiuning the 2 tier wage system, more subcontracting, pension and benfit cuts, 6 yr contract, ptimers base wage remaining at $8.50 /hr t/o life of contract...article 40 issues...gap between pt and ft ers incresing which just plays into ups's hands...etc
Good points of that contract...some have psoke of wage increases BUT...living in NYC metro area...those increases just don't cut it..
And now Hoffa is marketing his newest product : the VERY best contract ever...wonderful...he's learned a new word in 5 years... help us all!
tieguy
Banned
and then i guess the next question would be what contract was better if not this one?
Tie guy??I dont know...the way you speak...is tie guy a management "tie"??Seems you are certainly in the minority if you spin that last contract as anywhere close to "best"!It sells us out when we work so hard and do not get the compensation we earn for ALL WE CREATE FOR THIS CORPORATION!!
If im wrong about the management tie thing...i apologize...but defending the 2002 contract , especially after all we received from the 1997 contract ...all that momentum ...2002 wasted it ..and even sent us backwards.
If the majority of teamsters believed it was great, then we have a lot of work to be done in informing the rank-and-file that we deserve a helluva lot better!!
If im wrong about the management tie thing...i apologize...but defending the 2002 contract , especially after all we received from the 1997 contract ...all that momentum ...2002 wasted it ..and even sent us backwards.
If the majority of teamsters believed it was great, then we have a lot of work to be done in informing the rank-and-file that we deserve a helluva lot better!!
tieguy
Banned
Perhaps they understand a concept that is foriegn to you called gratitude. They know they work hard and they know they are key contributers to the companys success but they also know they are well compensated for what they do while you struggle to find one positive in the entire contract. You're not an agitator you're an ungratefull whiner.
Agitator,
You can admire Ron Carey all you want. The 1997 strike was based on the fact that the company saw that the pension plans were in deep trouble. What Carey did was a smoke screen to the real problem by making it a full time employment/jobs issue.
You make the statement of the "BROWN GREED" , WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS PUTTING UP THE 6.1 BILLION TO BAIL OUT CS.
You know who should really be pissed is the management side! These people keep getting smaller and smaller raises, reduced stock, paying more for their benefits year after year, can't spend money to improve the buildings, no stock growth, and you know why!!! Because they keep dumping all their money into the hourly folks. The Pilots, the mechanics, and now the teamsters.
I'm expecting your response to be that the hourly are the company. Just remember one thing, ALL OF THE UPS EMPLOYEES WORK HARD FOR THEIR MONEY, BOTH HOURLY AND MANAGEMENT!!!
Our pilots, drivers and mechanics are the highest paid in the industry, our management people aren't!!!!!!! Be grateful to have got what you got!
Remember" the Big fish always eats the little ones"
You can admire Ron Carey all you want. The 1997 strike was based on the fact that the company saw that the pension plans were in deep trouble. What Carey did was a smoke screen to the real problem by making it a full time employment/jobs issue.
You make the statement of the "BROWN GREED" , WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK IS PUTTING UP THE 6.1 BILLION TO BAIL OUT CS.
You know who should really be pissed is the management side! These people keep getting smaller and smaller raises, reduced stock, paying more for their benefits year after year, can't spend money to improve the buildings, no stock growth, and you know why!!! Because they keep dumping all their money into the hourly folks. The Pilots, the mechanics, and now the teamsters.
I'm expecting your response to be that the hourly are the company. Just remember one thing, ALL OF THE UPS EMPLOYEES WORK HARD FOR THEIR MONEY, BOTH HOURLY AND MANAGEMENT!!!
Our pilots, drivers and mechanics are the highest paid in the industry, our management people aren't!!!!!!! Be grateful to have got what you got!
Remember" the Big fish always eats the little ones"
Ok...i guess tie guy and nhguy are corporate/management robots...been hearing this carey bashing crap for a while!
I spend enough time during the day dealing with management bull****...dont need any at night
See ya on the picket line next year...i bet you will be the one with the brown "tie"!!
I spend enough time during the day dealing with management bull****...dont need any at night
See ya on the picket line next year...i bet you will be the one with the brown "tie"!!
satellitedriver
Senior Member
Carey couldn't be bashed enough IMO.
I won't see ya next year on the line. I will be doing the job I am paid to do.
Hope you and Red have a good time.
tieguy
Banned
you should be easy to pick out you'll be the only one on that picket line. Typical response from an agitator wannabe when asked to back up your bizzarre point of view you throw a few robot lines out there and then duck for cover. If you want to be an agitator and you think you have the right answer then run for some office and put your johnson on the line. Anyone can stand in the background like a little wuss like you and bad mouth others who try to make a difference. You like to stand in the background and lob grenades. Your type of activisim is cowardly at best.
Dude step back and take a look at your tdu agitator wannabe's they all drive 55 buicks with raccoon tails hanging off the rear views. Your view is not only in the minority its dead. Carey is in retired disgrace. He had a strike but no success to hang his hat on. He made your retirement the issue of 97 and 10 years later its still the biggest issue of this contract. Meanwhile the contract you turned your nose at raised the earnings of its members by about thirty percent. Your tdu cause is gone. It was a nice little diversion back in the eightys but now turns people off. At least change the name of this now defunct organization if you want to propel them to greater influence. You guys are managements best friend the more you speak the more teamsters turn you off and listen to management.
RockyRogue
Agent of Change
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME?!!?!? I'm a history nut, Agitator. I got waaaaaaay too bored for my health two Saturdays ago when I was doing grad school homework. I saw one of your posts under this thread and went looking for information on good ol' Ron Carey, UPS AND strikes. WHAT AN IDIOT!!!!! He pushed UPS to several strikes in the early to mid-70's in New York City, particularly Local 804. Ya know how far he pushed our company? UPS threatened to shut down its New York Metro package operations if workers didn't return to their duties. Twenty four hours prior to the deadline, workers returned to their duties. Do ya want the article citations so ya can read this yourself?? ANY union leader that pushes an employer that far has no business being in charge of the IBT on a national level. I read an excerpt about Carey's book on here, I think. In it, he said that at the last negotiating session in '97, the UPS official said something along the lines of, "You will pay for this til your dying day. I don't know how but you will pay for this til your dying day." The other people in the room pretended not to have heard what was said. Quite frankly, I don't blame 'em. After reading what I did about the "glorious" Ron Carey of the '70s, I agree with the court's decision to bar him from union activities. He's too confrontational for organized labor's good.
All of what I've written here is JMHO. -Rocky
Red, Great Post.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Why must you think its a good time to be out on a strike line? I iwll tell you that i as a p-timer in 97 made alot of friends for life from package to feeder to porters and we all stood out there side by side united for the overall good of all of us. If, if,if we would ever go back on strike i can promise you i would stand tall next to everyone out there and treat the p-timers the way i was treated by the fulltimers in 97, now thats how you build unity. If we do go on strike and you are a little bored crossing your picket line, just pm me and i would make a trip to you to make your picket line crossong a little more memorable. (there is no physical threat meant in this just some nice heckling)
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