Need hours of service clarified for California

[Pachiquin]

In my center in California we have drivers who are working straight through (sometimes over 12 hours) and taking all of their breaks at the end. Often drivers are working 12 1/2 up to 14 hours a day (paid).
The only rules that our management team enforce are "10 hours off between shifts" and "60 hours per week maximum".
The drivers seem to like working straight through without any break because they can "get it done" and then take 15+30+15+10 minute breaks when they are all done, taking their DIAD with them to wherever they please.
Management says that this is allowed but that they would prefer we took our breaks as scheduled; the long dispatches would have us out there until 9 to 10 PM.
Drivers are wanting to avoid working in the darkness and stop working before it is too late.
I researched the hours of service online and it appears that CA requires a 30 minute break after 8 hours. This is a new law which went into effect 7/1/12.
Also there is the matter of a meal violation if we don't begin our lunch between the 4th and 5th hour and finish that lunch before the 6th hour. This was enforced for awhile but no longer.
I know that management just wants to get it done and I never expect management to be reasonable, but taking your breaks at the end defeats the whole purpose of taking a break in order to prevent driver fatigue. I saw a graph on Wikipedia where the odds of getting in an accident are more than doubled and tripled at 11 and 12 hours respectively (I Googled hours of service).
Finally, as expected, the dispatches in our center are irresponsibly long by any standard because UPS is trying to manipulate us into working off the clock. I know that this will never change; I just use the methods and make a ton of money.
Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to stave off questions asking me to clarify the situation.
So what is the LAW in California!? The DMV website says 12 hours. Is that total paid or onroad time? I do not understand.

 

[UPSGUY72]

In my center in California we have drivers who are working straight through (sometimes over 12 hours) and taking all of their breaks at the end. Often drivers are working 12 1/2 up to 14 hours a day (paid).
The only rules that our management team enforce are "10 hours off between shifts" and "60 hours per week maximum".
The drivers seem to like working straight through without any break because they can "get it done" and then take 15+30+15+10 minute breaks when they are all done, taking their DIAD with them to wherever they please.
Management says that this is allowed but that they would prefer we took our breaks as scheduled; the long dispatches would have us out there until 9 to 10 PM.
Drivers are wanting to avoid working in the darkness and stop working before it is too late.
I researched the hours of service online and it appears that CA requires a 30 minute break after 8 hours. This is a new law which went into effect 7/1/12.
Also there is the matter of a meal violation if we don't begin our lunch between the 4th and 5th hour and finish that lunch before the 6th hour. This was enforced for awhile but no longer.
I know that management just wants to get it done and I never expect management to be reasonable, but taking your breaks at the end defeats the whole purpose of taking a break in order to prevent driver fatigue. I saw a graph on Wikipedia where the odds of getting in an accident are more than doubled and tripled at 11 and 12 hours respectively (I Googled hours of service).
Finally, as expected, the dispatches in our center are irresponsibly long by any standard because UPS is trying to manipulate us into working off the clock. I know that this will never change; I just use the methods and make a ton of money.
Sorry for such a long post but I wanted to stave off questions asking me to clarify the situation.
So what is the LAW in California!? The DMV website says 12 hours. Is that total paid or onroad time? I do not understand.

14 and 10 and 60 hrs are the only hours that Package car driver need to worry about. If you a Feeder driver then there are other rules than need to be followed.

It say 12 hour of driving time. As a package driver you never reach that amount of driving time even if you work 14 because your not always driving you walking delivering packages at each stop.

 

[Pachiquin]

Thank you for your prompt response. I had just read this new law which led me to believe that a driver MUST take a 30 minute break at 8 hours and may not "be onroad" over 11 hours.

About a third of the drivers in our center are working 10 to 13 1/2 hours straight through and not resting after 8 hours.

Honestly, it benefits me to just work straight through (often over 12 hours without one second of break time) and just take all of my breaks at the end. My only reservation about this is the issue of driver fatigue and the resulting decrease in safety. So it sounds like I can just hammer it out for 13 hours in a row M-Th and get off early on Fri.

In a reasonable world, management would enforce taking a break in the middle and not work us over 12 hours, but our management team (read I.E.) is not reasonable.

Did I mention that I make a lot of money?

 

[UPSGUY72]

Thank you for your prompt response. I had just read this new law which led me to believe that a driver MUST take a 30 minute break at 8 hours and may not "be onroad" over 11 hours.

About a third of the drivers in our center are working 10 to 13 1/2 hours straight through and not resting after 8 hours.

Honestly, it benefits me to just work straight through (often over 12 hours without one second of break time) and just take all of my breaks at the end. My only reservation about this is the issue of driver fatigue and the resulting decrease in safety. So it sounds like I can just hammer it out for 13 hours in a row M-Th and get off early on Fri.

In a reasonable world, management would enforce taking a break in the middle and not work us over 12 hours, but our management team (read I.E.) is not reasonable.

Did I mention that I make a lot of money?

The key word is DRIVING TIME not on the clock time ??? As I said Feeder drivers might need to worry about the 8 hour rule as a package car driver you only need to worry about the 14, 10 and 60 hour rules...

You as a driver are responsible for making sure you don't break the rules. If you break the rules management has to report that to the DOT.

 

[Pachiquin]

The key word is DRIVING TIME not on the clock time ??? As I said Feeder drivers might need to worry about the 8 hour rule as a package car driver you only need to worry about the 14, 10 and 60 hour rules...

You as a driver are responsible for making sure you don't break the rules. If you break the rules management has to report that to the DOT.

After discussing it with my husband, we decided that I am going to take a 15 min break in the AM, a 30 minute lunch after 5 hours, a 15 min break in the PM and a 10 min break at the end. I will make sure to never go over 13 1/2 hours daily total (so I can have 10 hours off b/w shifts) or 60 hours weekly total. It looks like I will be getting off early every Friday.

I am not going to worry what other drivers do or if UPS is allowing DOT violations vis a vid the aforementioned "mandatory 30 minute rest after 8 hours".

I expect that I.E. will continue to mandate irresponsibly large dispatches in order to manipulate drivers to work off the clock, but I will never work off the clock or goof off while on the clock.

I see a lot of intimidation from the center manager to make scratch even though many time studies are off. They send me out with an 11.50 planned day and are mad at me because it took me 13.50 hours to do it. Darkness, misroutes, traffic delays, misloads, new splits with which I am unfamiliar and fatigue are not accounted for in the time studies! It has been established that my methods are within specifications. I do not appreciate the bullying and intimidation; this is neither professional nor moral. I believe that karma is coming back to them for the bullying and intimidation.

The few times that I have had a reasonable dispatch my day went very smoothly.

We are headed off to buy a bright flashlight now.

 

[anonymous6]

i ( as a 30 plus year driver ) follow the letter of the law. if you get in an accident and did not follow the law it is your ass. you could also be criminally charged.

this is a typical mamnagement MO. violate the law until caught because it makes their numbers look good. it will come back to bite them as usual.

Sacramental driver told me they were strictly following the meal law because UPS had to pay millions in an injury or fatality accident where the driver did not take meal between the 4th and 6th.

they forgot that already?

 

[Brownslave688]

Thank you for your prompt response. I had just read this new law which led me to believe that a driver MUST take a 30 minute break at 8 hours and may not "be onroad" over 11 hours.

About a third of the drivers in our center are working 10 to 13 1/2 hours straight through and not resting after 8 hours.

Honestly, it benefits me to just work straight through (often over 12 hours without one second of break time) and just take all of my breaks at the end. My only reservation about this is the issue of driver fatigue and the resulting decrease in safety. So it sounds like I can just hammer it out for 13 hours in a row M-Th and get off early on Fri.

In a reasonable world, management would enforce taking a break in the middle and not work us over 12 hours, but our management team (read I.E.) is not reasonable.

Did I mention that I make a lot of money?

I skip all my break during peak. This is the only time I do this though. I made prob 5 extra hours of OT this past week because I take my break from 12-1 everyday. On Friday alone I had to break trace 3 seperate times fe commit time packages. Had to break for pick ups virtually every day. Taking my break made me much more money than skipping it.

 

[Brownslave688]

Thank you for your prompt response. I had just read this new law which led me to believe that a driver MUST take a 30 minute break at 8 hours and may not "be onroad" over 11 hours.

About a third of the drivers in our center are working 10 to 13 1/2 hours straight through and not resting after 8 hours.

Honestly, it benefits me to just work straight through (often over 12 hours without one second of break time) and just take all of my breaks at the end. My only reservation about this is the issue of driver fatigue and the resulting decrease in safety. So it sounds like I can just hammer it out for 13 hours in a row M-Th and get off early on Fri.

In a reasonable world, management would enforce taking a break in the middle and not work us over 12 hours, but our management team (read I.E.) is not reasonable.

Did I mention that I make a lot of money?

I skip all my break during peak. This is the only time I do this though. I made prob 5 extra hours of OT this past week because I take my break from 12-1 everyday. On Friday alone I had to break trace 3 seperate times for commit time packages. Had to break for pick ups virtually every day. Taking my break made me much more money than skipping it.

 

[Pachiquin]

I skip all my break during peak. This is the only time I do this though. I made prob 5 extra hours of OT this past week because I take my break from 12-1 everyday. On Friday alone I had to break trace 3 seperate times fe commit time packages. Had to break for pick ups virtually every day. Taking my break made me much more money than skipping it.

Well as much as I like money, I am already working 59 hours per week so if I have to break trace much more then I won't even have 8 hours available for Friday. A Friday off sounds good.

I have been at UPS over 20 years and I have learned to always follow the letter of the law and use the methods.

The supes are SO frustrated with me because I refuse to work off the clock. Once they learn that you are a person who cannot be intimidated or scared into working off the clock they treat you like crap.

The runners and gunners are the heroes: they come in to work 45 minutes early to sort their truck and pull out misloads, and then they spend their days running, speeding, forging signatures and skipping breaks. Like I said, heroes.

Management says that they want you to use the methods, take your breaks and drive safely, but when you do they label you a slug after comparing your overallowed to that of the cheaters. I am complaining all the way to the bank.

I do not blame the full time supes because they have an impossible job as dictated by I.E. We have a center manager now who takes to bullying and intimidation; I think he is frustrated with his own job (again, due to unreasonable pressure from above). I am so glad that I never went into management!

Finally, if anybody from Atlanta reads this, know one thing: you would have less accidents and injuries if you were to work us 8-9 hours instead of 10-13 hours.

Instead of being in love with spreadsheets, try being in love with safety--you'll save a lot of money!

 

[104Feeder]

Those rules you posted are the new HOS rules that are not going to be enforced until July 1, 2013 (read, no one is following they until that time. Old rules do not require a break or meal period).
You cited California law, and I believe you want to contact the California Franchise Board, Wage and Hour Division (or something like that). I would start there.

 

[Pachiquin]

Those rules you posted are the new HOS rules that are not going to be enforced until July 1, 2013 (read, no one is following they until that time. Old rules do not require a break or meal period).
You cited California law, and I believe you want to contact the California Franchise Board, Wage and Hour Division (or something like that). I would start there.

You are correct about 7/1/13. Starting on that date, a DOT driver must take a 30 minute break at 8 hours, or earlier.

I did some digging around at work and about 25% of the drivers took their lunch at the end of the day (I only looked at the timecards for one day).

My conclusion is that until 7/1/13 we can probably get away with taking our lunch at the end of the day.

The only warning would be that if a bad accident or injury were to occur after working 9 to 13 hours straight through with no break, then that lack of rest could blow up in your face. This is an attorney's wet dream.

Management's official policy is to take a break between the 4th and 6th hour, but they are either not looking at the timecards or turning a blind eye.

Be safe out there, brothers and sisters.

Remember not to be too hard on your onroad supes and center manager because they have an impossible job with too few tools and almost no latitude. I'm thinkin' "just smile and nod". Just smile and nod.

 

[brownmonster]

I thought your DIADs shut down for an hour for lunch out there? I suppose UPS weaseled their way out of that.

 

[Inthegame]

I did some digging around at work and about 25% of the drivers took their lunch at the end of the day (I only looked at the timecards for one day).

Management's official policy is to take a break between the 4th and 6th hour, but they are either not looking at the timecards or turning a blind eye.

In the Central, 25% of your drivers are violating the contract. Art 18 requires a meal between the 3rd and 6th hour. This should be adherred to as it protects employees. Employees can be disciplined for contractual violations. Funny how language can be randomly enforced.

 

[104Feeder]

The CA Feeder drivers were taking a meal before 12 hours and if they went over 12 hours they had to take a second meal. I'd assume their meal language (it's Contractual not UPS Policy) is the same or close to ours, which says 1/2 or 1 hour by mutual agreement between the 4th & 6th of a scheduled 8 hour day and 5th & 7th of a 10 hour day, but we don't have anything about a 2nd meal (that might be because of the lawsuit or CA's labor laws). In reality they don't care when you take it as long as you do, as those times don't necessarily work out for the needs of dispatch or the driver. I'd be passing out if I took all my time that early in a 12 hr to 14 hr day.

 

[Pachiquin]

The CA Feeder drivers were taking a meal before 12 hours and if they went over 12 hours they had to take a second meal. I'd assume their meal language (it's Contractual not UPS Policy) is the same or close to ours, which says 1/2 or 1 hour by mutual agreement between the 4th & 6th of a scheduled 8 hour day and 5th & 7th of a 10 hour day, but we don't have anything about a 2nd meal (that might be because of the lawsuit or CA's labor laws). In reality they don't care when you take it as long as you do, as those times don't necessarily work out for the needs of dispatch or the driver. I'd be passing out if I took all my time that early in a 12 hr to 14 hr day.

I am surprised that a clear policy is not in place for the tightest ship in the shipping business.

As for myself, I take a 15 in the AM, a 30 b/w the 4th and 6th hour, a 15 late in the PM and 10 more minutes if I work over 10 hours (which I always do). That plan keeps me out of trouble.

I really think that UPS should consider driver fatigue as a factor in accidents and injuries and force ALL drivers to shut it down for at least 30 minutes at about lunchtime. Safe and reasonable!

Clearly working 9 to 13 hours straight through without any breaks is putting the public (and drivers) at risk of accidents and injuries (or worse).

Is safety really first or is production first?

 

[Pachiquin]

I thought your DIADs shut down for an hour for lunch out there? I suppose UPS weaseled their way out of that.

I am a UPS driver in CA with the newest DIAD V. My DIAD definitely does not shut down. I can go 12 hours straight with no hiccups.

Check out the pic! Memories...

 

[104Feeder]

That Gen 1 Diad was the absolute best for Dogs. Shove that fat end in their mouth and let them chew. I loved when the scanners started to go out and had to whack it on the shelf to get it to go again.

Pachiquin, we have plenty of clear policies at UPS:

Clearly Wrong

Clearly Misguided

Clearly Contradictable

Clearly Asinine

Clearly Ignorant

Clearly Shortsighted

Clearly Inefficient

Clearly Stupid

Clearly Outdated

Clearly Illegal

Clearly Retarded

How many more do we need?

 

[anonymous6]

I am surprised that a clear policy is not in place for the tightest ship in the shipping business.

As for myself, I take a 15 in the AM, a 30 b/w the 4th and 6th hour, a 15 late in the PM and 10 more minutes if I work over 10 hours (which I always do). That plan keeps me out of trouble.

I really think that UPS should consider driver fatigue as a factor in accidents and injuries and force ALL drivers to shut it down for at least 30 minutes at about lunchtime. Safe and reasonable!

Clearly working 9 to 13 hours straight through without any breaks is putting the public (and drivers) at risk of accidents and injuries (or worse).

Is safety really first or is production first?

nothing will change until there are more lawsuits.