New Video! Is the buyout even worth it?

[UnionStrong]

When you’re confident, and you have no right to be, that’s called arrogance

More like stupidity

 

[Well-Known Member]

View attachment 527370

Now that’s funny. This bulletin is titled UPS’s DVS Buyout Program.

It then goes on to say how it’s violating the contract. And it seems to list several reasons, only giving one actual reason related to the buyout. The other reasons are separate issues and have nothing to do with the buyout.

How does AC in package cars have anything to do with the buyout. But it is listed as seemingly being a reason this DVS is violating the contract. Or the 22,500 new jobs seemingly being a reason.

And by the way, the contract does not say 22,500 new jobs as this bulletin says.

And the one treason it gives about violating Article 6?

It says UPS cannot enter into any side deals.

That’s not what Article 6 says.

The Bulletin lists a couple of Articles and other issues, not related to the buyout, that the uniformed may see as a provision in the Agreement that the buyout is conflicting with. Making it look like there is an Article 6 violation.

And then Scary bad? Robs workers of high wages? These guys would be retiring shortly anyway. They are not being forced out. They are welcome to keep working.
.
On the hook for Healthcare? Most are eligible for retiree healthcare and would be on it when they retired anyway.

How can we beat this? Sure, reject the buyout, $50K after taxes, work 4 more months and retire after peak like you were going to do anyway, without a $50K check.

Does O’Brien think we are that stupid? Well, some, maybe even most, probably believe him and don’t know any better.

And he, or the bulletin, says UPS is being devious. This bulletin is all smoke and mirrors.

Well, who is the one being devious now.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Now that’s funny. This bulletin is titled UPS’s DVS Buyout Program.

It then goes on to say how it’s violating the contract. And it seems to list several reasons, only giving one actual reason related to the buyout. The other reasons are separate issues and have nothing to do with the buyout.

How does AC in package cars have anything to do with the buyout. But it is listed as seemingly being a reason this DVS is violating the contract. Or the 22,500 new jobs seemingly being a reason.

And by the way, the contract does not say 22,500 new jobs as this bulletin says.

And the one treason it gives about violating Article 6?

It says UPS cannot enter into any side deals.

That’s not what Article 6 says.

The Bulletin lists a couple of Articles and other issues, not related to the buyout, that the uniformed may see as a provision in the Agreement that the buyout is conflicting with. Making it look like there is an Article 6 violation.

And then Scary bad? Robs workers of high wages? These guys would be retiring shortly anyway. They are not being forced out. They are welcome to keep working.
.
On the hook for Healthcare? Most are eligible for retiree healthcare and would be on it when they retired anyway.

How can we beat this? Sure, reject the buyout, $50K after taxes, work 4 more months and retire after peak like you were going to do anyway, without a $50K check.

Does O’Brien think we are that stupid? Well, some, maybe even most, probably believe him and don’t know any better.

And he, or the bulletin, says UPS is being devious. This bulletin is all smoke and mirrors.

Well, who is the one being devious now.

If you boil all his rhetoric down, he’s basically telling you don’t take the deal stick together. For 95% of the people that’s good advice.. the rest of it is bluster, the grievances they file better have more substance than that.

Listing the jobs and the air conditioning is his way of showing people that they’re not to be trusted making deals is what I’m guessing.

 

[DELACROIX]

If you boil all his rhetoric down, he’s basically telling you don’t take the deal stick together. For 95% of the people that’s good advice.. the rest of it is bluster, the grievances they file better have more substance than that.

Listing the jobs and the air conditioning is his way of showing people that they’re not to be trusted making deals is what I’m guessing.

We all know they aren’t to be trusted..you have to be a complete idiot to think otherwise. Been out of the game for awhile…my opinion is not to rely or depend on both sides, we are not individuals anymore, they treat us as pawns and expect Loyalty in return..forget the rhetoric and make a decision that is best for you and your family.

The problem now is how can you get all the facts before you take the plunge…guess what you won’t..trust no one..

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

We all know they aren’t to be trusted..you have to be a complete idiot to think otherwise. Been out of the game for awhile…my opinion is not to rely or depend on both sides, we are not individuals anymore, they treat us as pawns and expect Loyalty in return..forget the rhetoric and make a decision that is best for you and your family.

The problem now is how can you get all the facts before you take the plunge…guess what you won’t..trust no one..

They are trying to do this way too fast.

 

[Oh Shoot]

I guess we’ll find out 8/1 and 9/1.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Yes, the offer is pathetic, but if you were already heading out the door why not do it with a few $$$ in your pocket?

It would make zero sense for anyone with 29 years or less of service to even consider taking the buyout.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Have you clicked on the QR code or gone to the buyout website yet or did you, like most of the others, toss your letter in to the recycling bin once you read “$1,800 per year”?

I Googled “Are buyouts extra contractual?” and the AI generated results were very interesting.

IMO UPS will review the results and will up the ante early next year.

 

[Oh Shoot]

I was right about the framework of this buyout—-yes, my numbers on both the yearly amount and number of days to decide were on the high side, but I was spot on with its intent.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Only for insurance contracts and employment agreements.

 

[Oh Shoot]

I never went to Union school and you are confusing confidence and arrogance.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Do they teach arrogance at Union school?

Every Union official that I dealt with over my 29.3 years had more arrogance than any officer or upper NCO in my 8 years of active duty. Whether it was Fat Fred or the Hamburglar in Potsdam or, more recently, the officers in Local 294, they all came off as arrogant. I offered to help in their organizing efforts at our local Amazon warehouse and they basically told me to mind my own business.

You mentioned contracts—-I don’t recall ever signing any document stating that I promised to stay until I was eligible for retirement.

This buyout is NOT an extra-contractual agreement.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Yawn.

Which part of VOL-UN-TA-RY confuses you?

This buyout is designed to entice those who should have left a long time ago to put in their papers. It will also give those who had already planned on leaving this year a few $$$ in their pockets on their way out the door. I wish this had been available in summer 2018.

I will admit that their offer needs to be revised upward.

Thus buyout is perfectly legal and doesn’t violate ANY of the articles in the NMA.

 

[DELACROIX]

They are trying to do this way too fast.

There is always a reason… I remember back in 2007 before the Central States buyout saying that the 2008 contract will be settled at the end of 2007..sure enough it did, Washington was going to apply a penalty on every underfunded pension plan in America to prevent a future collapse. They pretty much were targeting the largest which was the Central. UPS would have had to increase their pension contributions beyond their contractual agreements. The Union leadership at that time agreed that the Central was a lost cause and had to agree to the buyout.

A little familiar with our pension history and there is a lot of dirt behind every decision. There is go longer any oversight over ERISA, the DOL has been neglectful or bought out by corporate interests. Everybody in a pension fund has no say or opinion on the decisions that effect your future retirement…

 

[AllTheBellsAndWhistles123]

There is always a reason… I remember back in 2007 before the Central States buyout saying that the 2008 contract will be settled at the end of 2007..sure enough it did, Washington was going to apply a penalty on every underfunded pension plan in America to prevent a future collapse. They pretty much were targeting the largest which was the Central. UPS would have had to increase their pension contributions beyond their contractual agreements. The Union leadership at that time agreed that the Central was a lost cause and had to agree to the buyout.

A little familiar with our pension history and there is a lot of dirt behind every decision. There is go longer any oversight over ERISA, the DOL has been neglectful or bought out by corporate interests. Everybody in a pension fund has no say or opinion on the decisions that effect your future retirement…

…which is why pensions should be abolished and replaced with 401k’s, funded by those same pension contributions…

I recall before I started (1989) that our (NYSTPF) was 103% funded and that the trustees were given the choice of either sending a check to the Treasury or increasing benefits; they, of course, chose the latter which, in hindsight, may not have been the right move as our Fund was in critical status (40-45% funded) just prior to the $1.4B bailout.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

…which is why pensions should be abolished and replaced with 401k’s, funded by those same pension contributions…

I recall before I started (1989) that our (NYSTPF) was 103% funded and that the trustees were given the choice of either sending a check to the Treasury or increasing benefits; they, of course, chose the latter which, in hindsight, may not have been the right move as our Fund was in critical status (40-45% funded) just prior to the $1.4B bailout.

That's where lots of these funds screwed up big time. Instead of increasing the payout they should have just issued a 13th check.

 

[Oh Shoot]

…which is why pensions should be abolished and replaced with 401k’s, funded by those same pension contributions…

I recall before I started (1989) that our (NYSTPF) was 103% funded and that the trustees were given the choice of either sending a check to the Treasury or increasing benefits; they, of course, chose the latter which, in hindsight, may not have been the right move as our Fund was in critical status (40-45% funded) just prior to the $1.4B bailout.

 

[AllTheBellsAndWhistles123]

…which is why pensions should be abolished and replaced with 401k’s, funded by those same pension contributions…

These 401k’s would be auto enrolled at a minimal (3%) contribution rate and would require spousal signature, if applicable, on any withdrawals so that there would be money left when they are ready to retire.

 

[Oh Shoot]

These 401k’s would be auto enrolled at a minimal (3%) contribution rate and would require spousal signature, if applicable, on any withdrawals so that there would be money left when they are ready to retire.

 

[Thebrownblob]

These 401k’s would be auto enrolled at a minimal (3%) contribution rate and would require spousal signature, if applicable, on any withdrawals so that there would be money left when they are ready to retire.

I’ve been maxing my 401(k) out for quite a few few years. I think I could’ve done quite well personally with a company match of 6 to 8%. Having said that also having a pension is an amazing opportunity to have a stable income throughout retirement. Working class people have a difficult time, saving throughout their lives for all sorts of different reasons. A pension ensures they’re not destitute at retirement age and get to retire with dignity, which is what a union is supposed to help provide.