OJS Arbitration

[542thruNthru]

First let me say I'd prefer this doesn't turn into a TDU vs IBT thread if possible, but I know how it goes so just do your best.

This arbitration decision was sent to me by a couple different stewards in my building. I found it very interesting and being that I've only ever really read one other (688 9.5 arbitration) I felt others might find it informative as well.

I'm sure some of you may recognize the name of the member this case is about. I know I sure did. I feel reading this will be very eye opening to some members.

I look forward to hearing from some of you about this decision and hopefully some more information or insight from some of you that hold a elected position in our union.

I don't want to spoil anything right off the bat so I'll give my opinion on it later.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

First let me say I'd prefer this doesn't turn into a TDU vs IBT thread if possible, but I know how it goes so just do your best.

This arbitration decision was sent to me by a couple different stewards in my building. I found it very interesting and being that I've only ever really read one other (688 9.5 arbitration) I felt others might find it informative as well.

I'm sure some of you may recognize the name of the member this case is about. I know I sure did. I feel reading this will be very eye opening to some members.

I look forward to hearing from some of you about this decision and hopefully some more information or insight from some of you that hold a elected position in our union.

I don't want to spoil anything right off the bat so I'll give my opinion on it later.

I've just read through the list of things he was disciplined for so far. First, optimal load? Seriously? Second, insubordination for language while representing another member... The company should have known better. A blind person could see the retaliation.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Very interesting read.

Liam sounds like a slug but to be fair it does appear that the company did single him out for his union activities, specifically the ill conceived petition.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

"No one ever told us the union doesn't recognize productions standards." Boo hoo. Poor, dumbies... I guess that makes lying and violating the contract ok.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Who could forget Liam.


Gets elected BA, stages a wildcat strike at UPS, and get's 250 drivers fired.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I don't really understand why they didn't fight the production standards with article 37. The company claims article 37 give them the right to set production standards. It's like the union didn't even bring it up. I have never been involved in an arbitration, but, based on the decision, it looks like they don't take the contract in its entirety into consideration, simply the arguments presented by the two sides. It also seems like most of the arbitration decisions I've read have been terrible miscarriages of "justice".

 

[Brownslave688]

TLDR

 

[cachmeifucan]

Who could forget Liam.


Gets elected BA, stages a wildcat strike at UPS, and get's 250 drivers fired.

250 grown men that made the decision to walk. They all knew they would be fired then brought back that's hardcore .

 

[542thruNthru]

I don't really understand why they didn't fight the production standards with article 37. The company claims article 37 give them the right to set production standards. It's like the union didn't even bring it up. I have never been involved in an arbitration, but, based on the decision, it looks like they don't take the contract in its entirety into consideration, simply the arguments presented by the two sides. It also seems like most of the arbitration decisions I've read have been terrible miscarriages of "justice".

This was on track with my thinking as well.

The local tried to fight the discharge solely on retaliation it seemed. We all know that's hard to prove... even though bringing in a 20 year "ringer" seemed obvious to me.

I thought it was interesting to see how the company documented the rides. I felt the union had nothing but the petition and the grievances filed. Why didn't this steward also document his own OJS? Document how everyday was different instead of just saying. "But everyday is different."

The locals defense seemed lazy but I can't be sure of that. I also have to say it seemed Liam felt to sure of himself and tried to play games and it back fired on him.

 

[542thruNthru]

TLDR

You got nothing better to do. Pour some bourbon and enjoy it.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

This was on track with my thinking as well.

The local tried to fight the discharge solely on retaliation it seemed. We all know that's hard to prove... even though bringing in a 20 year "ringer" seemed obvious to me.

I thought it was interesting to see how the company documented the rides. I felt the union had nothing but the petition and the grievances filed. Why didn't this steward also document his own OJS? Document how everyday was different instead of just saying. "But everyday is different."

The locals defense seemed lazy but I can't be sure of that. I also have to say it seemed Liam felt to sure of himself and tried to play games and it back fired on him.

They should have requested the information from the company, stops, pieces, areas covered. His own notes would have been helpful, but it would be hard for the company to argue against its own data. I get the feeling that Liam was acting based on things he had been told rather than him taking responsibility to learn the contract himself. I also get the feeling that many people who want to "stick it" to management do the same thing. It's important to be able to justify pretty much every decision you make and action you take.

 

[Boywondr]

This was on track with my thinking as well.

The local tried to fight the discharge solely on retaliation it seemed. We all know that's hard to prove... even though bringing in a 20 year "ringer" seemed obvious to me.

I thought it was interesting to see how the company documented the rides. I felt the union had nothing but the petition and the grievances filed. Why didn't this steward also document his own OJS? Document how everyday was different instead of just saying. "But everyday is different."

The locals defense seemed lazy but I can't be sure of that. I also have to say it seemed Liam felt to sure of himself and tried to play games and it back fired on him.

Would've been better to get statements from his loader(s) about the load changes, before and after, and if any supes massaged the loads plus was the belt speed slower than other days.
Carrying optimum loads? Heck drag that cart out every time that you can. Call in for ov70s and Introduce all of your customers to the "new" supe of the day as you're delivering.

Actually, the best defense of giving an honest days work is by giving an honest days work every day.

 

[542thruNthru]

Would've been better to get statements from his loader(s) about the load changes, before and after, and if any supes massaged the loads plus was the belt speed slower than other days.
Carrying optimum loads? Heck drag that cart out every time that you can. Call in for ov70s and Introduce all of your customers to the "new" supe of the day as you're delivering.

There is a ton of things that he and his local should have brought as evidence but it feels like they were unprepared. I of course have never been to a arbitration. I'm curious if maybe @BigUnionGuy or @Inthegame could bring some information about how a arbitration works. I'm curious would that information have been put in this write up or would it just be skipped over as unimportant?

 

[Boywondr]

There is a ton of things that he and his local should have brought as evidence but it feels like they were unprepared. I of course have never been to a arbitration. I'm curious if maybe @BigUnionGuy or @Inthegame could bring some information about how a arbitration works. I'm curious would that information have been put in this write up or would it just be skipped over as unimportant?

If you add it they have to address it as far as I have seen.

I think his local had newer officers at that time? I think they were friends of @BigUnionGuy ? Lol

 

[zubenelgenubi]

There is a ton of things that he and his local should have brought as evidence but it feels like they were unprepared. I of course have never been to a arbitration. I'm curious if maybe @BigUnionGuy or @Inthegame could bring some information about how a arbitration works. I'm curious would that information have been put in this write up or would it just be skipped over as unimportant?

I have been told that what is in the grievance is what is heard, which is why well written and researched grievances are so important. It's also why you always put "all other applicable articles" besides the ones you name.

 

[542thruNthru]

If you add it they have to address it as far as I have seen.

I think his local had newer officers at that time? I think they were friends of @BigUnionGuy ? Lol

I have been told that what is in the grievance is what is heard, which is why well written and researched grievances are so important. It's also why you always put "all other applicable articles" besides the ones you name.

This is what I've heard as well.

This is part of the reason I posted this. The answer to some of these questions will help members be smarter grievance and documentation writers.

I know in a way the teamsters like us "dumb" for lack of a better word but when it comes to covering ones self I feel the more information the better.

 

[tadpole]

I can’t believe that this termination stuck. What’s to stop them from raising your SPORH whenever they feel like it and then terminating you when you can’t meet their bogus numbers?

 

[ManInBrown]

First off complete BS that the discipline wasn’t related to him being shop steward. And second everyone knows when you get an OJS they are Disneyland loads. I had 6 OJS rides while I was in package. Every single day I could do cartwheels in the back of the car. No irregs. Nothing. Bulk business stops were taken off. What a joke.

 

[ManInBrown]

Wait so the guy that staged the walkout dressed in a suit was a driver? I thought that guy in the video was from the hall.

 

[542thruNthru]

Wait so the guy that staged the walkout dressed in a suit was a driver? I thought that guy in the video was from the hall.

He was a driver. Then was fired. Then became a BA. Then started a wildcat strike...