Package Progession Question

[GSO_Dave]

In a HUB smalls sort section, when packages get jammed in the slide, does breaking the jam constitute "package progression"?

I filed on this issue, and was told that it went to arbitration, where it was determined that it was NOT "package progression". I have not seen this ruling. Is it possible to see it?

 

[dillweed]

Chill out dear, it's not progression.

 

[Dark_Team_135]

I would say if it amounts to pushing a single package and that takes care of the problem then it isn't a big deal. Here we have the problem of supervisors pushing volume into trailers for the majority of the night which is definitely advancing packages (and we used to have Union employees doing it). The problem in that case isn't really a jam but a design issue where a wide belt feeds into a narrow chute and when the flow becomes too heavy the packages hang up at the pinch points.

I usually tell a supervisor that if you spend more than a few seconds breaking a jam (and I don't mean a few seconds continuously all sort long!), then it becomes bargaining unit work since we have Union jam breakers for that job.

 

[Ptrunner]

Yeah i agree as well for the breaking of jams. On our load wall, the supervisor will climb the ladder go up and break jams. Sometimes there is heavy flow coming or from a jam from the unload. Thats the grey area though. When does it become working. For me, it became working when a certain trailer every night was getting hit constantly. Two things happend, 1 egress problems with packages falling every where created by the supervisor for pushing the flow down and 2 a good 10-15 minutes of pushing packages. That means theyre working and you file on it. If its like the above poster said not even a 1 minute, i wouldnt worry about it. When its a habitual contact like if you have 3 hours of work the supervisor is constantly going up down chutes unblocking jams, i would call it work then.

 

[705red]

Do we not have employees that break jams all night long? here they are called gut monkeys and all they do is go from jam to jam. A supervisor breaking a jam would be considered working, just as label flipping would be. It probably is faster to have the sup break it but it is Teamster work.

 

[rod]

the poll is tied----6 hourly- 6 management

 

[Dark_Team_135]

Do we not have employees that break jams all night long? here they are called gut monkeys and all they do is go from jam to jam. A supervisor breaking a jam would be considered working, just as label flipping would be. It probably is faster to have the sup break it but it is Teamster work.

Yeah that is the problem. We USED to have people that did only that. It slowly evolved into the people that are loading the trucks coming out to do it and when that wasn't enough, the supervisors took over. We now have them back to having the hourlies come out of the trailers to do it, but there is no way they can do it all night long because there is one continuous "jam" nearly the entire sort. We want them to hire additional employees to do this work.

 

[rod]

faster, faster, faster------------------maybe just turning the belt speed down a tad might help

 

[p228]

Do we not have employees that break jams all night long? here they are called gut monkeys and all they do is go from jam to jam.

We don't. I didn't even know that was a job. Normally, the loader breaks the jam and if it is busy enough the sup does it. The local doesn't seem to care.

 

[705red]

In the larger buildings we hae employees that do that on a daily basis, its there only job. I believe local 177 has this case in arbitration now, we where sending our gut monkeys along with local 70's to testify on their jobs and how long they have done it for.

 

[ShopStewardLocal177]

Yes Red, Local 177 has this case in arbitration!

 

[chopstic]

I would rather let a supervisor give a quick push on a jam, than have him/her nag me to run around doing a bunch of tedious one-time jobs.

 

[SWORDFISH]

the poll is tied----6 hourly- 6 management

13-6 now.... UPstate into management by your stats ROd.

 

[dillweed]

I certainly have seen sups staying in a hot spot for long periods of time just to cram the pkgs down faster than they would naturally flow. This would be progression.

However, 15 seconds of jumping up and breaking an actual "jam" of jumbled up longs and other problem pkgs doesn't seem grievable at all. I'd rather let them do the few seconds of work than to have a target on my back for grieving those 15 seconds.

Management must be watched like a hawk to make sure they don't turn a simple act of assistance into a pattern of unfair pkg progression.

 

[rod]

13-6 now.... UPstate into management by your stats ROd.

No-- its more like management "into" upstate

 

[705red]

I certainly have seen sups staying in a hot spot for long periods of time just to cram the pkgs down faster than they would naturally flow. This would be progression.

However, 15 seconds of jumping up and breaking an actual "jam" of jumbled up longs and other problem pkgs doesn't seem grievable at all. I'd rather let them do the few seconds of work than to have a target on my back for grieving those 15 seconds.

Management must be watched like a hawk to make sure they don't turn a simple act of assistance into a pattern of unfair pkg progression.

Dill the question was is breaking jams union or management work. Just because you would not file a grievance on it does not mean its managements work. According to the contract that would be union work and should be grieved, maybe by grieving this another 22.3 could be made.

 

[SWORDFISH]

No-- its more like management "into" upstate

LOL..... Now that was funny

 

[UnconTROLLed]

In the larger buildings we hae employees that do that on a daily basis, its there only job. I believe local 177 has this case in arbitration now, we where sending our gut monkeys along with local 70's to testify on their jobs and how long they have done it for.

We have those employees but only in the primary. All 13 PDs or whatever are sups breaking jams.

In small sort the PT supervisors move bags from one primary belt to the other. This was grieved and won by steward and employee, but the sups kept right on going. The steward said I couldn't grieve it anymore, it would be "pushing buttons". Which makes no sense; They did it for the money not to correct behaviour. Shocking.

 

[dillweed]

Dill the question was is breaking jams union or management work. Just because you would not file a grievance on it does not mean its managements work. According to the contract that would be union work and should be grieved, maybe by grieving this another 22.3 could be made.

Aha! I re-read the question and it does ask about "pkg progression". I can see where it could be considered pkg progression as it "helps" the pkgs progress.

I'm in a small center with no one person designated to such a position. We handle our own jams or wait while the sup takes care of it. It doesn't happen but three or four times per shift and usually takes only a minute or two to clear up. I'm getting older and prefer to catch my breath than to climb up on those slides. By the time I could drag my ass up there the sup can have it cleared and running. It's interesting to hear that some hubs or huge centers actually have a postion for this and helps me understand your opinion.

After your post sleeve-meet-heart mentioned that his steward said he'd be "pushing buttons" if he grieved such an issue again. That's also how our stewards would react unless a sup was spending 10-15 minutes at a time doing this work and doing it several times per day.

Our current sort aisle sup is very good about not progressing. The poor guy sees us getting backed up with pkgs falling on the floor and can't do much about it. He has been know to try and keep some from progressing by physically holding back some of the avalanche until we get our current mess cleared up. He uses his body like a shield of some sort and you can just see him hoping no one shuts down the belt. The only control button sorters have shuts down the entire building, then we have a ft sup come up yelling and throwing a tantrum.

Our sort aisle sup is the best I've ever seen. He actually watches out for us and can use his control panel button to stop flow while keeping the secondary on. This allows us a few minutes to clean up without upsettnig the higher ups. Sadly, the unload sup slams the stuff out to make himself look good and couldn't care less about us. Our prior sort aisle sup wasn't up there enough to know or care what was going on. In fact, he was often down there whipping the unloaders to go faster. Moral sucks, as our current sup and the unload sup don't get along at all. One wants production only, and the other sees it necessary to consider safety and quality. Our sup gets a lot of heat for wasting those precious few minutes.

Guess I've rambled on a bit but it has lots to do with my opinion. It's sad to see a decent young man put in such an impossible situation. Yep, he took the job and knew what it would be but has shown more common sense than any I've seen.