Pas system

Discussion in 'The Archives' started by muncher, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. muncher

    muncher Guest

    I work in a large center that is about to get the new pas system in. There are lots of rumors and questions from all the preloaders and nobody seems to haveany answers. There are a few points I need info on. One is that we have heard that once the system is in place loaders who were one loading 3 or 4 package cars now will have to load 6 cars, I load 3 cars now and can barly keep up, I don;t even look at mt alpha charts since I have been loading the same cars for 4 years, also heard that the will move the loaders all around the building, this will suck for me and my coworkers because we all work really good togather, also heard that we will have more time and lighter flow because thay have to but stickers on all the packages. Also heard alot of people are quiting because of the bigger work load.
    need some answers
    Is the union doing anything to protect the workers rights?
  2. jeff

    jeff Guest

    PAS was implemented 3 months ago in our center. Our work group went from 6 preloaders to 4, yet kept the 2 part-time sup's(who are both working 10x harder). The preloaders are expected to load 1 pkg every 11 seconds! The boxes pile up before there start time and boxes are getting damaged much more often.
    The EDD system works awesome IF everything goes according to plan! The biggest problem is the wrong label going on the wrong box. This means you could have a box with a PAL label for your route, but goes anywhere in the bldg and will be missed. You are told as a driver not to look thru your load and to get in your truck and go! So these missed pkgs can be NDA. I have had more missed pkgs in 1 week than in the 19 years I have been with the company.
    The next problem is the preloader loading it on the wrong truck within your work group. This is very common! The numbers are very similar and all the sequence numbers are the same. 18A-1455 18c-1455----2 different trucks. All those misloads must be run, causing more miles and more time. I have 4 drivers in my loop and I am guaranteed to get 1 pkg from each driver per day. That means it shows up in his board as a stop and he goes to that address and searches the entire truck and no pkg.
    All preloaders were moved to different work groups. The logic being that they would look at addresses and not the PAL label. I had the same preloader for 2 years and he was the best I have ever had and has since quit.
    Like I said, when the system works correctly it is awesome! 2 days of no errors in 3 months. Management has said the system in our bldg. cost over a million and they are going to recoup the cost thru payroll. That is all fine, but where is the logic in paying a preloader $10 an hour and starting him 10 minutes later,while allowing pkgs to get damaged? We saved $1.65 in wages and are spending hundreds in damage claims, not to mention our reputation. Paying drivers $35/hr to run misloads that the $10/hr preloader wouldn't of misloaded if they were given more than 11 seconds to load a pkg. Having $35/hr drivers "wrap up" there trucks in the morning while the preload sup's send home the $10/hr preloader. I could go on and on, but what does the hourly know?
  3. ezrider

    ezrider Guest

    Jeff Ups,how much did your route and the routes around yours change after PAS was installed?What I'm hearing is that all the routes in our building are gonna go thru re-looping once this new system is in and that always seems to be a mess.We finally have some teamwork among the guys I drive with everyday and I have a feeling that the cohesiveness we worked so hard to build with each other is about to be thrown out the window by a group of bean counters.I try to be positive,but from what I hear and read,I'm hardly looking forward towards exposure to PAS SYNDROME!!
  4. sendagain

    sendagain Guest

    The labels that direct our packages to the trucks ought to be color coded to the trucks they are going to. This would make misloads more difficult and would help the preloader spot a package on the belt long before he could read the label. When the belt is full, you can't possibly read all the labels going by, but you could spot a colored label that was your responsibilty.

    The relooping of routes has been done by people with no little or no experience on the areas they are looping. If anyone would see the mess that they made of my route, maybe some of these folks would be moved out of the way. End result, I manage my own route the way I've always done and clean up the mess that management made. Like always, I work around the many stumbling blocks that people make from little brick buildings miles away.
  5. wkmac

    wkmac Guest

    Funny you mentioned the loop problem and I was recently talking with someone in my area who was on that task for a short time and got moved. Their suggestion was the loop team go out with the drivers on route and to also get driver input. That good idea was quashed quickly because it would force the little 20 somethings out of the office and air conditioning. Take them away from a computer screen and they've got absolutely no idea what to do. The sad part if they would get off their little soft behinds and put a little work into it then you'd see PAS really pay off with the drivers as time on road would go down coupled with less fuel used and less miles on vehicles. Right now because a good job of loop detail wasn't done PAS really hasn't started to payoff yet.

    As for color labels, that technology is here but the costs I'm sure are very high so although it's a good idea on your part I doubt it would get much mileage. Sounds like you load from a runout belt and if you do I have one suggestion that might work but you guys would have to be able to show it makes the operation more efficent and cost effective. If there is room upstream from your runout belt have 1 or 2 people positioned to pre split the volume. At least this way the front end loaders aren't having to look at all the volume but only half or in theory it should be. Theories never work at UPS either. LOL! Get with the folks you work with on the belt and put your heads together. You more than anyone else know the area and job so chances are the best solution could come from you. Figure it out and then try to sell the idea to management. I'm not saying it'll work but I'm saying it won't either. Good luck.
  6. rth87

    rth87 Guest

    We just started edd/pas this week. You can see edd will be beneficial but the relooping of the routes is a nightmare. The thing I don't understand is why start right before peak.
  7. muncher

    muncher Guest

    Thanks for the good info on the pas, I was wanting to hear from some preloaders and how it is efecting there work, are you losing hours?, are you getting bigger work loads? Is UPS addding stops to drivers and cutting routes?
  8. sendagain

    sendagain Guest

    In EDD, the delivery stops should be lined up the same way they are lined up in our pickup logs. Instead, I see stops that I won't hit for four hours, and that completely destroys the whole concept of EDD. It would be wonderful if the management would actually listen to the people who are doing the work, and realize their mistakes. Instead, the drivers are working around the new problems, managing the company onroad, just like we've always done.
  9. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Sendagain a good loop plan is critical to PAS. Have you tried to get the setup changed?
  10. sendagain

    sendagain Guest

    Trying to get the PAS system changed is like trying to squeeze water out of a rock. When I complained about the one residential street that I deliver being lined up backwards, it was altered, but only halfway. It now reads high to low on half the street, then low to high on the rest of the street. My route is 90% commercial, but the PAS system tells me to deliver the residential stops after my next day airs. You would have to be a complete idiot to deliver this way. I've never followed the PAS system at all, knowing it's unworkable the way it's been lined up. The people who did this have moved on to destroy other centers, while I continue to deliver my route in it's most effective way. The good drivers are minding the store while the numbers guys are going over figures back at the office. It's a shame that so much time and money was devoted to this idea, only to leave it in the hands of the incompetant. There is considerably more to managing a city than just looking at sequence numbers on a computer.
  11. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    send again the pas is not some mystical system . Its dispatch is controlled by how your center sups loop it.
  12. dannyboy

    dannyboy Guest


    I guess if they do PAS like they did the relooping of our center, we are in for some tough times. There were sections with businesses that were not delivered in over a week because of the way they implimented the system here, and that is after they spent an aleged $140,000 on the reloop.

    While it looked good on paper to have a base line that is right in the middle of town, it is wrong to add and cut routes based on that street, esp if most of that area is business. You are changing the delivery times and pickup schedule of every business in that area, something that Is not wise with the fedex's and airbournes out there trying to get more from us.

    Common sense will go a long way. It wouldnt hurt to get the delivery drivers input when laying out PAS. JMHO

  13. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    I agree. I take it that did not happen.
  14. upsbrian

    upsbrian Guest

    The delivery order that is in EDD is not set in stone in any way, shape, or form. If there is a business need to delivery your common carrier first, the center team should make your delivery order reflect that. If they don't, its just lazyness on the part of the center team.
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Or the project requires more time or talent than they presently have available. You folks have a unique advantage. You actually know the routes and you probably have a good understanding of the loop concept and the goals and reasons behind the concept. Is there any chance you could steer the management team into understanding what would work. What is the process for getting the loop information edited?The reason I ask is twofold. I have heard that the preliminary preparation for the move to PAS is supposed to require or suggest employee involvement. I also think there will be a time somewhere down the road when a corporate person will be able to pull a report that tells him dannyboy is not following the loop dispatch plan in the planned order. Seems like now would be the time to get everything straight.
  16. dannyboy

    dannyboy Guest

    Tie, if it is one thing that management seems to have plenty of time for it is pulling and printing reports. Each day our center prints hundreds if not thousands of pages of reports.

  17. wkmac

    wkmac Guest

    "I also think there will be a time somewhere down the road when a corporate person will be able to pull a report that tells him dannyboy is not following the loop dispatch plan in the planned order."

    Remote micro management! LOL!

    I think at UPS there exists a whole multi-layer of management who's only job is to dream up more reports to be driven by computer data. I remember back in the mid-80's when PE went to a computer dispatch system one of the selling points was, "this will eliminate the need for all this paper!"

    REALLY! And the check's in the mail too![​IMG]
  18. brownmonster

    brownmonster Guest

    I run my route totally out of order. Therefore I have many happy customers that appreciate my early deliveries and later pickups. If I ran in logical mile saving order the guy in the white truck would be doing all my work.
  19. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Ok. I'm not disagreeing with the concept brown I'm asking if you can sell what your doing as being the best way?
  20. feeder

    feeder Guest

    Brownmonster, you are half right and half wrong. Tieguy, you are half wrong and half right. First of all, there should at least be some communication with your sups, brownmonster, on your D.O.L, Tieguy, you know better, you should be able to sit down with your drivers and fix any bad streets and D.O.L. problems. Second, fixing these inconsistences should make your day alot smoother other than running your route backwards from the way you have it loaded on the shelf. Finally, when I was in pkg-car, I had a sit-down with my sup and had my load overhauled to the point that the coverdrivers were running my route in their sleep. Just try to make it easier on the you and you will please your sup in the process.