Catatonic
Nine Lives
OH ... so it is the individuals that are the problem, not the 401k itself.
Sure, I'll go along with that.
Same as life in general.
Pension Consolidation
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Sure, I'll go along with that.
Same as life in general.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Like I said, it's all about perspective and what you think the goal was.
I mean, really, the problem is old people......
Catatonic
Nine Lives
... that have not prepared for retirement.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Exactly, taking care of people that can't take care of themselves is one of the quintessential problems of a civilized society. Pensions did a better job of that than 401ks. Like I said, it's all about perspective, and what you think the goal really was.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Big
ing differnce between 'cant' take care of themselves' and 'choose to not take care of themselves'.I personally don't think that is a problem ... with that person, of society and especially of the Government.
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DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
That difference blurs a lot when the market tanks at retirement time.Big
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
I see a few problems with it.
For example, as a libertarian, I'm confused as to why people get a tax break for retirement savings. Maybe you can explain that one to me.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Because the US Central Government wanted to incent people to save for retirement so the US Government would not have to support all the deadbeat citizens.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Just let em keep enough of their own money to keep em happy eh?
Catatonic
Nine Lives
My 401k did not tank at my retirement age ... I had over 50% in Bonds and other type investments.
That is the fault of the individual once again ... every piece of investment starts off with ...
... "diversification is an essential part of every person's investment plan" ...
or sumtin' like that anyway.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
That's the Libs/Dims plan ... the Repubs don't care what you do with your money!
I almost typed that with a straight face.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Look, the bottom line is that a 401k does not compare to a pension at all. It's a completely different beast.
In a world where a pension never existed, 401k's are great.
In a world where corporations pushed for 401k's over pensions..... well there's a reason for that, and it's not because they were looking out for their employees.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
No doubt!
What dummy said that?
Just because UPS used a euphemism (enhancement) to soften the cuts ... non-Union employees are still bleeding.
upschuck
Well-Known Member
A properly run pension would be a better solution than individuals trying to invest themselves for the vast majority of us. The pension has professional investors that know what they are doing, and can move money around, a lot sooner than you or I can. The problem with the pensions, is people getting the money out, that was not contributed for, and promising too high of benefits.
Everybody on here would probably agree, that with a large sum of money, would tell you to go to a financial advisor to invest, to get the best return. That would be like some yahoo off the street telling you how to best do your job.
Everybody on here would probably agree, that with a large sum of money, would tell you to go to a financial advisor to invest, to get the best return. That would be like some yahoo off the street telling you how to best do your job.
Jackburton
Gone Fish'n
Curious to the discussion as all these people who haven't prepared for retirement, I don't have a new car, boat, take tons of time off. While each person has an individual goal, because someone has a different idea of what a goal is (mine to retire comfortably) why are we blaming a system, product if you will.
It's like saying cars are massive failure as a mode of transport, because you can't afford one. Yet the person who can't afford one doesn't feel as though working to obtain money for it is worth it. So that same person decides vacationing and living it up on his salary is the right way to do it because it's what his goals are. Meanwhile, someone else wants a car and works hard for it, yet does he say vacationing is a massive failure, because he has different goals?
It's like saying cars are massive failure as a mode of transport, because you can't afford one. Yet the person who can't afford one doesn't feel as though working to obtain money for it is worth it. So that same person decides vacationing and living it up on his salary is the right way to do it because it's what his goals are. Meanwhile, someone else wants a car and works hard for it, yet does he say vacationing is a massive failure, because he has different goals?
Jackburton
Gone Fish'n
Did you know they offer tax credits for low income earners for putting money into a retirement fund? A straight up tax credit. The Roth bashers won't or don't want to talk about that.
What Is The Savers Credit? - TurboTax Tax Tips & Videos
Unfortunately most of them do not make enough money to put some away for retirement.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Tax Credit
I know what it is I'm saying they so not have enough left over to out money away yes if they were smart they would find a way to take advantage of free money.
Jackburton
Gone Fish'n
But $5 Starbucks coffee and $800 phones take presidence.
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