Populist Indeed!

[DriveInDriveOut]

Seems to me from what I read there's some contention that secular humanism is a religion, which leaders of that movement claimed. When they realized their tactics to quash Christian thought from the public sphere were going to be used against them, humanism suddenly became science. Sounds to me it's an issue worthy of debate.

Seems to me you need to spend some time figuring out the difference between science and religion, because you're clearly confused.

 

[bacha29]

Keep hoping, van. I'm currently in a very red state that does have a significant coal industry. However, most of the state looks like it hasn't been prosperous since Ike.

These people simply need to move. No industry will re-locate where they are, and I'm figuring most are on some form of government assistance. Run down homes and trailers with yards full of junk cars or building materials...everywhere. For every decent house, there are 4 dumps. I guess nobody knows how to operate a paintbrush, hammer, or drive their crap to the dump. Trump can't help being lazy, ignorant, or both. Neither can the Democrats.

Trump will be able to do nothing for these decent folks, except kill their healthcare and/or cut their assistance.

Relocating, getting some skills, and some motivation would go a long ways towards improving their lives.

Oh, and religion is huge here. I guess Jesus doesn't want them to figure things out.

You described the " little piece of heaven" where I live in perfect detail. Expansive. mountainous poorly accessible sparsely populated clannish and appalling depressed. And billions in raw material was hauled out of here and nothing put back. I tell young adults..."If you are 35 or younger. you have in demand skills and you are offered a job in some other part of the country and you don't take it well then good luck. And oh yea, every time you turn around there's another Baptist church breaking up and those who leave well they just start another Baptist church . And it seems like every other day there's a new independent church started by a guy who went and got a preacher's license more often than not because he couldn't find a job or was too lazy to work one. And over on the Catholic side they are keep fully occupied closing parish"s , paying off the families of little boys their priests were molesting while trying to keep those guys moving around but not keeping them in one place long enough for somebody to find out about their past.

 

[Maui]

Seems to me from what I read there's some contention that secular humanism is a religion, which leaders of that movement claimed. When they realized their tactics to quash Christian thought from the public sphere were going to be used against them, humanism suddenly became science. Sounds to me it's an issue worthy of debate.

Even if we stipulate secular humanism is a religion. Secular education =/= secular humanism. Some want Christianity to receive preferential treatment in public education. These people are very ignorant. I know because I know some of the people involved in Frost v Hawkins County Board of Education. The group's ideas are indefensible and the real goal is to teach Christianity and pretend that even the absence of any teaching is somehow religious.

Here is a link to an old NY Times article about the Frost case. Sarah Frost is unsophisticated and reveals true motives. FUNDAMENTALIST PARENTS PUT TEXTBOOKS ON TRIAL

 

[vantexan]

Seems to me you need to spend some time figuring out the difference between science and religion, because you're clearly confused.

We walk by faith and not by sight. Just something some will never understand. Doesn't mean we're perfect, or better than anyone. Anyone who hurts someone, in the name of religion or otherwise, has a misunderstanding of Christianity. A lot of jaded people here only see Christianity as a malevolent force, but they are seeing the actions of people who aren't truly practicing Christianity. No, not likely, but if we were all trying our best to follow the principles whether we believe or not, we'd see murder, rape, spousal abuse, child abuse, war, and so many other horrible acts drop to miniscule amounts. It's never going to happen, but it's a worthy goal to strive towards. Otherwise all we have is the love of money, which is the root of all kinds of evil(that's the actual quote).

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

We walk by faith and not by sight. Just something some will never understand. Doesn't mean we're perfect, or better than anyone. Anyone who hurts someone, in the name of religion or otherwise, has a misunderstanding of Christianity. A lot of jaded people here only see Christianity as a malevolent force, but they are seeing the actions of people who aren't truly practicing Christianity. No, not likely, but if we were all trying our best to follow the principles whether we believe or not, we'd see murder, rape, spousal abuse, child abuse, war, and so many other horrible acts drop to miniscule amounts. It's never going to happen, but it's a worthy goal to strive towards. Otherwise all we have is the love of money, which is the root of all kinds of evil(that's the actual quote).

Ok?
That has nothing to do with what I posted, I don't give two s about your faith.

 

[BrownArmy]

I think you'd be shocked at the world we would live in without religion.

I think you'd be shocked at a world we could live in that was free from religion.

Morals don't begin and end from 'scripture'.

(Would you agree with some of your own statements about religion if they included Islam?)

Which 'scripture'?...do you even care? Take your pick...same difference.

Buddhists are killing other buddhists, as we speak...the irony.

Organized religion is a poison, and simply another type of control.

Here's the thing: believe whatever you want to believe.

I'll give you the same wide berth I give the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

In return, I expect and demand that you leave me the friend alone, and that extends to public policy.

 

[MrFedEx]

I think you'd be shocked at a world we could live in that was free from religion.

Morals don't begin and end from 'scripture'.

(Would you agree with some of your own statements about religion if they included Islam?)

Which 'scripture'?...do you even care? Take your pick...same difference.

Buddhists are killing other buddhists, as we speak...the irony.

Organized religion is a poison, and simply another type of control.

Here's the thing: believe whatever you want to believe.

I'll give you the same wide berth I give the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

In return, I expect and demand that you leave me the friend alone, and that extends to public policy.

Jesus, please protect me from your followers. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion, 2 basic concepts most Christians fail to grasp.

Worship whomever or whatever you want, but keep it to yourself and don't expect the rest of us to do things your way.

 

[MrFedEx]

We walk by faith and not by sight. Just something some will never understand. Doesn't mean we're perfect, or better than anyone. Anyone who hurts someone, in the name of religion or otherwise, has a misunderstanding of Christianity. A lot of jaded people here only see Christianity as a malevolent force, but they are seeing the actions of people who aren't truly practicing Christianity. No, not likely, but if we were all trying our best to follow the principles whether we believe or not, we'd see murder, rape, spousal abuse, child abuse, war, and so many other horrible acts drop to miniscule amounts. It's never going to happen, but it's a worthy goal to strive towards. Otherwise all we have is the love of money, which is the root of all kinds of evil(that's the actual quote).

Put away the Bible and drop the meaningless platitudes.

 

[vantexan]

I think you'd be shocked at a world we could live in that was free from religion.

Morals don't begin and end from 'scripture'.

(Would you agree with some of your own statements about religion if they included Islam?)

Which 'scripture'?...do you even care? Take your pick...same difference.

Buddhists are killing other buddhists, as we speak...the irony.

Organized religion is a poison, and simply another type of control.

Here's the thing: believe whatever you want to believe.

I'll give you the same wide berth I give the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.

In return, I expect and demand that you leave me the friend alone, and that extends to public policy.

Not trying to force my views on you, just pointing out how different the world would be if everyone tried their best to live by Christian principles, whether they believe in God and Jesus or not. Is that so hard to understand? Or do you prefer a world of kill or be killed? Survival of the fittest? Grab everything you can because this life is all there is? Are you so filled with anger that you can't see the good? You just react angrily to the very mention of Christianity? Do you want to have a better world or do you just want to lash out? What it comes down to is there are many who not only don't want to live the Christian life but it literally makes them angry to see others actually trying to. Have seen it all my life. And what many Christians are doing politically today is trying to ensure that they have the right to continue to practice their beliefs because quite a few are trying to completely take it out of existence.

 

[MrFedEx]

Ok?
That has nothing to do with what I posted, I don't give two s about your faith.

He just punted on 4th and 99. Jesus couldn't come up with a play.

 

[Maui]

Van, I do not view Christianity as a solely malevolent force. I know some wonderful people that do lots of good that are Christians. Local Christian churches are helping Muslim refugees as we speak by helping collect needed items, raise money and offering a gathering place. There is some good stuff in the Bible. The problem I have is the idea that all humans are bad and deserve eternal punishment. That whole concept seems contradictory to a benevolent, omnipotent deity.

 

[Maui]

Not trying to force my views on you, just pointing out how different the world would be if everyone tried their best to live by Christian principles, whether they believe in God and Jesus or not. Is that so hard to understand? Or do you prefer a world of kill or be killed? Survival of the fittest? Grab everything you can because this life is all there is? Are you so filled with anger that you can't see the good? You just react angrily to the very mention of Christianity? Do you want to have a better world or do you just want to lash out? What it comes down to is there are many who not only don't want to live the Christian life but it literally makes them angry to see others actually trying to. Have seen it all my life. And what many Christians are doing politically today is trying to ensure that they have the right to continue to practice their beliefs because quite a few are trying to completely take it out of existence.

Even this supposes the superiority of your faith. Equality feels like oppression to the privileged. Christians are fighting to maintain privilege.

 

[BrownArmy]

Not trying to force my views on you, just pointing out how different the world would be if everyone tried their best to live by Christian principles, whether they believe in God and Jesus or not. Is that so hard to understand? ...

I appreciate your steadfastness, but I'm perplexed by your inability to grasp my point.

Would the world be 'better' if we tried to live by Buddhist principles?

Would the world be 'better' if we tried to live by Sharia law?

Would the world be 'better' if anyone of nordic ancestry believed that Odin and Thor played a real factor in their lives?

Get real.

I'm a man of culture and science.

You seem to be saying that only 'Christian' values are appropriate for the way forward.

I simply disagree.

 

[vantexan]

I appreciate your steadfastness, but I'm perplexed by your inability to grasp my point.

Would the world be 'better' if we tried to live by Buddhist principles?

Would the world be 'better' if we tried to live by Sharia law?

Would the world be 'better' if anyone of nordic ancestry believed that Odin and Thor played a real factor in their lives?

Get real.

I'm a man of culture and science.

You seem to be saying that only 'Christian' values are appropriate for the way forward.

I simply disagree.

You came late to the party. This started when I pointed out that our schools would be better if we hadn't driven God out of them. Which brought on a chorus of Christian bashing. I'm not a Buddhist, or a Muslim, etc. I only know the basic principles of my faith. And I know that practicing them makes for a better life. I'm sure there are those here who are thinking Jesus freak, nutjob, etc. What I can tell you is I spent most of the last 30 years in a corporation that made me cynical, jaded, and angry. So much so that I believe it was a major contributor to a plugged up artery that almost killed me in 2011. I was a long way away from the kid who grew up in a family of ministers. And I have doubts about all of it too. But I do know quite a bit about what the scriptures say and the good that has been done in the name of Christ. Everyone will probably now scream about the evil. But the point of Christianity is to do good when you can, and to resist evil. Those who commit evil acts aren't faithful Christians, and if they believe they're doing right they've twisted the scriptures. You can believe Christianity is evil if you like, but it's been my experience that those who do are at their core angry, and their anger fills their heart with hate. In my case the anger and hate was directed at FedEx. But nearly dropping dead was enough to convince me that I needed to change. And I know what the opposite of hate is and that the religion I grew up with emphasized that. So yes, when I see Christianity attacked as evil on this forum I stand up for it. I know what it truly stands for and the good that has been done in the name of Christ.

 

[njdriver]

What you call discussing I call disgusting and clearly tensions between you "holier than thou's" are ratcheting up and that's when it gets dangerous.

I am perfectly willing to carry on a dialog with anyone about anything, at least in those areas I have either a passing or experiential knowledge of. Conversation to me is NOT the act of me trying to get you to accept my point of view, nor to dissuade you from yours. It is merely the sharing of ideas and ideals in a hopefully collegial manner.

"...tensions between you "holier than thou's"

You're mis-characterizing where the actual tensions lie.

It's not between those who have similar spiritual views, rather with those who are somehow offended the dialog has taken a religious tone at all. I make no apologies, nor will I ever make apologies for my faith. It is the guiding factor in everything I do, say or think, much the same way liberals cling to the same tired rhetoric whenever they hear something that doesn't align with their ideological worldview.

It's exactly what we see in many colleges today; free speech being shut down, Christian or Conservative speakers either being dis-invited or protested into abandoning planned speeches. Precious snowflakes who need safe spaces, puppies and crayons, to shield them from views they were never exposed to during their liberal K-12 experience.

"...that's when it gets dangerous."

What's really dangerous is the coming revolution as a result of the ideological tug-of-war occurring in our political arena. Gone are the days when both parties wanted more or less the same things, with disagreement being on how to get there.

The Democrat party has gone full-tilt to the Uber-Left. They have taken off their mask and are showing us how they really feel about anyone or anything that differs from their own point of view, or does not cede its will to them.

If that is how you will choose to conduct yourself in this thread, by judging its content or by casting aspersions, I will graciously withdraw from it, because I don't like repeating myself, or pissing in the wind.

 

[njdriver]

Even if we stipulate secular humanism is a religion. Secular education =/= secular humanism. Some want Christianity to receive preferential treatment in public education. These people are very ignorant. I know because I know some of the people involved in Frost v Hawkins County Board of Education. The group's ideas are indefensible and the real goal is to teach Christianity and pretend that even the absence of any teaching is somehow religious.

Maybe some do, but you continue to miss my point.

I'm just fine with Christianity not being taught in public schools!!!

However, I DO have, and will continue to have a problem with ANY group that fights to be legally ruled a religion, actually gets that legal recognition, to then turn around and expect not to be held to the same prohibitions Christianity and other religions are held to when it comes to public education.

I understand you don't agree with my view, and I'm fine with that too. I just don't want you or anyone else to mis-characterize my position in regard to this issue.


"Secular education =/= secular humanism."

Look, we can go round and round and round ad nauseum, so I'll give it one last go.

If secular education contains even SOME of the tenets contained in the latest iteration of the Humanist Manifesto, AND THE GROUP THAT AUTHORED THAT MANIFESTO FOUGHT FOR AND ULTIMATELY RECEIVED LEGALLY RECOGNIZED AND CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED STATUS AS A RELIGION, then there is simply no way around the reality that what may have once been considered secular has, by reason of that same legal Constitutional recognition, been transformed into religious dogma.

I'm aware the onus detractors of this argument posit is related to science, but that is just one of many outlined parameters the AHA has purposefully chosen to delineate as part of their overall credo.

They got what they asked for, now they should be legally forced to live with what they asked for.

 

[newfie]

So, here we are, less than two months into the “populist” presidency, and the new reality – for those that can face the truth – is already readily apparent.

For whatever reason, a certain percentage of the American populace seems to think that they will prosper under the current POTUS; please consider the following:

- The appointment of Betsy Devos: There’s not a lot of critical thinking required here. Let’s face it, the privatization of the public school system will undermine teacher’s unions and ultimately empower the corporate entities that Mrs. Devos unequivocally represents. How anybody could possible think that this appointment “drains the swamp” is beyond me me.

- The attempted appointment of Andrew Puzer: This gent is a classic piece of trash, one who describes working folk as “the worst of the worst.” Yeah, clearly this guy is pro middle-class all the way.

- The appointment of Scott Pruitt: “climate change is far from settled.” I am sure the money corporations will save will easily go into the middle-class coffers - guffaw, guffaw, guffaw

I wonder if anyone actually "guffaw's" anymore. better yet I wonder if anyone ever actually guffawed? could we possibly enhance this BS by splicing in real world laughs or was the laugh track meant to highlight the point that main "meat" of this posting was also out of touch with reality?

 

[newfie]

Trump battled heel spurs, which kept him out of military service. Rush Limbaugh had anal cysts, one of which was removed and became Mitch McConnell. Few to none of the Right Wingers ever served and most dodged service however they could.

what special forces unit was Maxine waters , harry reid , Bernie saunders or nancy Pelosi in? I know you want to slam the republicans but

 

[It will be fine]

Maybe some do, but you continue to miss my point.

I'm just fine with Christianity not being taught in public schools!!!

However, I DO have, and will continue to have a problem with ANY group that fights to be legally ruled a religion, actually gets that legal recognition, to then turn around and expect not to be held to the same prohibitions Christianity and other religions are held to when it comes to public education.

I understand you don't agree with my view, and I'm fine with that too. I just don't want you or anyone else to mis-characterize my position in regard to this issue.


"Secular education =/= secular humanism."

Look, we can go round and round and round ad nauseum, so I'll give it one last go.

If secular education contains even SOME of the tenets contained in the latest iteration of the Humanist Manifesto, AND THE GROUP THAT AUTHORED THAT MANIFESTO FOUGHT FOR AND ULTIMATELY RECEIVED LEGALLY RECOGNIZED AND CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED STATUS AS A RELIGION, then there is simply no way around the reality that what may have once been considered secular has, by reason of that same legal Constitutional recognition, been transformed into religious dogma.

I'm aware the onus detractors of this argument posit is related to science, but that is just one of many outlined parameters the AHA has purposefully chosen to delineate as part of their overall credo.

They got what they asked for, now they should be legally forced to live with what they asked for.

This is such a bad argument. So your claim is anything that any religious group claims is a tenet of their faith shouldn't be taught in public schools? So if the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster says they believe in calculus as the holy method of study of continual change it shouldn't be taught in schools? How about we just keep religious beliefs at home where they belong and you can stop pretending science is a religious belief.

 

[bacha29]

what special forces unit was Maxine waters , harry reid , Bernie saunders or nancy Pelosi in? I know you want to slam the republicans but

View attachment 121882

The results of an NBC News poll take a few days ago..........66% of the respondents believed that will be in a major war within 4 years. I believe that if there is it will as the result of the biggest foreign policy blunder since Vietnam. Right now it's an all volunteer force which might not last too long if it's a ground war of attrition . It would therefore most likely leave the president with 3 choices..... withdraw forces, reinstate the draft or break out the nukes. If it's the draft then as sure as the sun comes up in the morning the children of the nations elite won't get their heads blown off in some far away land. They will use their money and connections to keep the heirs and heiress's out of harms way.