Production termination!

[local804]

100% agreed. The drivers in our center say they "are proving a point." I'm not sure who they think they are hurting but the only people it affects is those of us on the sort that get home an hour or 2 later than we would if they would just do their jobs. I for one hope they do start cracking down on that particular behavior and put an end to that crap. I've noticed that the biggest whiners are the ones that bid the routes with the longest day because of the overtime and then bitch about it every single day.

Oh please, you act like you are not getting paid for the time you work. I am sure UPS deals with the problem children that they have and I could assure you, this driver was not one of them. Maybe if you were a delivery driver, you would have a different outlook on the job. I have done your job, you have not done mine. I have never been a production problem and my sph range like a football score. Alot has to do with the edd cuts and the volume ( now area is alot bigger) Some days it could be 15 some days it could be 19. No 2 days at UPS are the same ever and any driver(even suit can agree) There have been many OJS`s performed by UPS management and the sph on the 3 days were way way off. That is why they use the average of the 3 day ride. Dont think everyone is out to fk the company just because the numbers arent always what they are expected to be.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

How would you do it then?

I would set realistic production goals for my employees to meet that don't reward most of them with failure for working their off. If you think that UPS has already done such than you either have not been a package car driver or if you were, you did not adhere to the methods.

 

[705red]

You are right Trpl. I don't know if it is in the contract, but stewards aren't supposed to solicit greivances. But any good steward knows how to work around that by asking questions in a certain way.

As a steward it is my job to solicit grievances! No were in the contract does it say that i am not allowed. I encourage drivers to file for 9.5s and that is why i have more 9.5 drivers in my center than the rest of my building does in 4 centers combined.

I'm only 1 man, i can not watch every move a sup makes or every contract violation they do, without talking with the other employees to see what they know. Its become a lot easier, now that i have gained the trust of the drivers and when they see a sup, they either call me or text me all the info, stops the sup did, trk numbers, what time,,,etc.

 

[705red]

100% agreed. The drivers in our center say they "are proving a point." I'm not sure who they think they are hurting but the only people it affects is those of us on the sort that get home an hour or 2 later than we would if they would just do their jobs. I for one hope they do start cracking down on that particular behavior and put an end to that crap. I've noticed that the biggest whiners are the ones that bid the routes with the longest day because of the overtime and then bitch about it every single day.

If you were a driver you would understand what "proving a point" meant. So i will explain it to you. It means that they are taking all of their lunch, paid breaks, doing the job by the methods, closed bulk head door, hand rails, using the cart as much as needed, all of these adds time to your day. This is why you see the drivers coming in later. You should come in and look at these trucks in the morning before you start flying off with alleged allegations. I'm sure when you see a loaded 12 cube bricked front to back going out and than coming back in the same way, you might have a better grasp of what our job details.

Until you have walked a mile in our (package drivers) shoes, you should only speak off your life experiences!

 

[trickpony1]

Correct me if I am mistaken but isn't the center managers and division managers bonus based on how good the production numbers of his drivers are?
Also, ever heard of MAR? minimum acceptble something (i forgot)
If you are allowed 9 minutes to do a certain part of your job and you do it in 7 minutes then 7 minutes becomes your MAR forever and ever.
Doesn't allow for unexpected intervening variables does it?

 

[ih8tbrn]

Oh please, you act like you are not getting paid for the time you work. I am sure UPS deals with the problem children that they have and I could assure you, this driver was not one of them. Maybe if you were a delivery driver, you would have a different outlook on the job. I have done your job, you have not done mine. I have never been a production problem and my sph range like a football score. Alot has to do with the edd cuts and the volume ( now area is alot bigger) Some days it could be 15 some days it could be 19. No 2 days at UPS are the same ever and any driver(even suit can agree) There have been many OJS`s performed by UPS management and the sph on the 3 days were way way off. That is why they use the average of the 3 day ride. Dont think everyone is out to fk the company just because the numbers arent always what they are expected to be.

I never once mentioned anything about numbers and I never said I didn't get paid. Me and my fellow sort workers all have full time jobs and families so that hour or 2 that we have to stand around and twiddle our thumbs makes the difference not the pay. And it is a fact that 1 or 2 drivers in a small center can screw up the whole night. Don't assume that I am talking about every single driver. There are going to be bad apples in every profession. And if you're going to tell me that you believe there aren't drivers that deliberately slack off to "prove a point" then you are either blind or ignorant. You all took the job so suck it up and do your "fair days work." What I do at UPS can't screw up a drivers day, but what they do can screw up mine.

 

[705red]

I never once mentioned anything about numbers and I never said I didn't get paid. Me and my fellow sort workers all have full time jobs and families so that hour or 2 that we have to stand around and twiddle our thumbs makes the difference not the pay. And it is a fact that 1 or 2 drivers in a small center can screw up the whole night. Don't assume that I am talking about every single driver. There are going to be bad apples in every profession. And if you're going to tell me that you believe there aren't drivers that deliberately slack off to "prove a point" then you are either blind or ignorant. You all took the job so suck it up and do your "fair days work." What I do at UPS can't screw up a drivers day, but what they do can screw up mine.

Do you really believe that we want to be out there all night? You speak about a fair days work for a fair days pay, how about telling the management team not to bust out the route and pile an additional 30 business stops on us or have us cover the pick ups off the guy they sent home because ie said they must break a route!

Have you ever tried driving? I cant judge an iron worker, stock broker, doctor because i have never done these jobs. If you want more family time than maybe you should switch to the preload. This week should be a slow week for us, but i will be filing at least 15 9.5s and every night we have had drivers out past 2100, and its not because we want to deliver in the dark while walking over black ice covered by snow. The bosses decided to dispatch us heavy and keep us out all night. But you say we should suck it up and get in because you want to go home! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Covemastah]

RED!!!!!! Just curious,I'm sure everything was covered during the panel meetings,but was AGE ever discussed!!! Was this driver older than the other ones that were measured?????

 

[Dark_Team_135]

Don't know if it is still part of the contract but at one time it was under the Steward duties and responsibilities section that a steward was not to solicit grievances. Which would be a contract violation. Why wasn't he fired for that if that is why they wanted him gone?

Actually this is false.

Encouraging members to enforce their rights is “protected concerted activity” under the National Labor Relations Act. A supervisor who threatens a steward with discipline for doing his or her job, including “soliciting grievances,” has made an illegal threat and committed an unfair labor practice. In that event, you or your local union can file a charge with the NLRB.

 

[tieguy]

Which in my opinion would be great for the grievant. This was a three day arbitration, that is broken down in to a 36 page summary. I'm obviously reading it through glasses worn by a union supporter, but i do not see how the arb could say that his union activity did not play a role in this termination.

I don't know what kind of job this guy did. But I'm not sure you can argue that we should not hold our people accountable if they are big union supporters.

I've seen some big union supporters that took the concept of fighting productivity standards to extremes. Guys who spent more time and energy trying to demonstrate they could not be productive rather then using that same time and energy to get the job done.

The company has always felt we can fire people for productivity standards if we handle the case correctly. Many centers do not have the time and resources to take someone through the entire process and usually get sidetracked at some point.

 

[tieguy]

Well now I hope UPS goes and fires every driver on their payroll who happens to miss their sporh by 1.5 stops per hour. Wouldn't have any left. I'm pretty fast, but there are days where it's impossible to meet UPS' goals.

If I'm correct the guy did not miss the routes sporh as much as he missed his own demonstrated performance when under direct supervision? example guy does 14.5 sporh average on a performance ride then drops 1.5 to 3 stops an hour whenever he is on his own.
If he was consistently dropping that much from his demonstrated performance then that is a pretty big drop.

we can't hold you accountable for an IE number we can hold you accountable for your own demonstrated performance.

The question I would also have to ask is what else did he have going on on the route. If this guy had as many things going on with the union as Red says then my suspicion would be that he spent a lot of time on the cell phone talking to others about union issues while running his route.

 

[tieguy]

Actually EEOC and NLRB work hand in hand. EEOC can give a case to NLRB if it is warranted.

maybe file a complaint with NASA and immigration too while you're at it.

The driver has responsibility here. He consistently demonstrated better performance results under direct supervision then he did when unsupervised. He was an experienced shop steward so I'm sure he understood the methods argument. yet for whatever reason he consistently did a much poorer job when unsupervised. He has responsibility in this case that we are now telling him to avoid by filing nuisance lawsuits.

 

[tieguy]

I'm not freakin lawyer...what the heck does that mean?

comon tex you're smarter then that. he is saying the guy keeps stirring things up for his own personal gain.

Its a valid argument I've seen over the years. Someone who intends to run for union office starts filing all kinds of BS grievances and creating all kinds of hate and discontent in order to promote himself.
Wants to make a name for himself set a reputation for himself as a tough guy. I've seen the election flyers before where someone running for office was put down by his opponent because he did not file enough grievances as a steward.

 

[ih8tbrn]

If you were a driver you would understand what "proving a point" meant. So i will explain it to you. It means that they are taking all of their lunch, paid breaks, doing the job by the methods, closed bulk head door, hand rails, using the cart as much as needed, all of these adds time to your day. This is why you see the drivers coming in later. You should come in and look at these trucks in the morning before you start flying off with alleged allegations. I'm sure when you see a loaded 12 cube bricked front to back going out and than coming back in the same way, you might have a better grasp of what our job details.

Until you have walked a mile in our (package drivers) shoes, you should only speak off your life experiences!

So your argument is that the driver doing his job properly and according to the methods and the contract is his way of screwing the company? Then essentially you are admitting that in either case the driver is at fault. Why do you hold the company to much higher standards than you do your union coworkers? You expect the company to follow the contract to the letter, but you don't expect the hourlies to follow it unless it benefits them.

 

[705red]

So your argument is that the driver doing his job properly and according to the methods and the contract is his way of screwing the company?

Never in any of my posts did i say that the drivers are screwing the company!! Are you in a different country and having a hard time reading english?
Then essentially you are admitting that in either case the driver is at fault.

If a driver takes his lunch and is over worked and you have to sit and wait to unload a couple extra package cars, how is this the drivers fault? the drivers do not disptch themselves the company does.

Why do you hold the company to much higher standards than you do your union coworkers?

Please explain what standards?

You expect the company to follow the contract to the letter, but you don't expect the hourlies to follow it unless it benefits them.

The drivers should all be forced to take their lunch everyday, and when/if this happens you will need to bring a picture of your family to work, because that is the only time you will see them during the week, like the rest of our drivers. I do 19 to 20 stops an hour, 60 to 80 business stops, 100 residentials and 15 pick ups, monday it was a total of 205 stops, i was 204 over and averaged 20 stops per hour, but im the slacker right?

 

[ih8tbrn]

Do you really believe that we want to be out there all night? You speak about a fair days work for a fair days pay, how about telling the management team not to bust out the route and pile an additional 30 business stops on us or have us cover the pick ups off the guy they sent home because ie said they must break a route!

Have you ever tried driving? I cant judge an iron worker, stock broker, doctor because i have never done these jobs. If you want more family time than maybe you should switch to the preload. This week should be a slow week for us, but i will be filing at least 15 9.5s and every night we have had drivers out past 2100, and its not because we want to deliver in the dark while walking over black ice covered by snow. The bosses decided to dispatch us heavy and keep us out all night. But you say we should suck it up and get in because you want to go home! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

Yes I have driven. 20 years ago fresh out of college I drove for an overnight freight company. I did that for 5 years until I'd had enough of the 14-15 hour days 6 days a week. Yes, I know that it sucks to work long days. In fact, I'm working 2 jobs now so I am actually working 13 hour days. The fact that you are overlooking or choosing to ignore is that there are actually people that intentionally do the wrong thing and that behavior affects other people. Those particular people need to be dealt with.

I applaud your loyalty and convictions to all things union, but I can't believe that you actually think every single union member is giving his all. If you do then you are extremely naive.

 

[ih8tbrn]

The drivers should all be forced to take their lunch everyday, and when/if this happens you will need to bring a picture of your family to work, because that is the only time you will see them during the week, like the rest of our drivers. I do 19 to 20 stops an hour, 60 to 80 business stops, 100 residentials and 15 pick ups, monday it was a total of 205 stops, i was 204 over and averaged 20 stops per hour, but im the slacker right?

I can see that having an intelligent argument with you is impossible so I will concede. Good luck to you.

 

[tieguy]

Have you ever driven package car? Somedays you can walk through your truck easily, and some days its a game of hide and seek. Now if your playing a game of hide and seek looking for packages than its very easy for your spoh to go down by 3 stops. What should we do on days like this? Dont spend time digging and continue on and just drive back through the route later on in the day, which will also lower your spoh due to the extra miles.

ultimately for the rest of us its going to come down to being able to explain what happened. If you're like I was as a driver, you have a good idea where you usually are at certain points of the day. Certain parts of the route that you use as reference points. If you find yourself behind then you need to probably keep some notes on things that affected you that day. One thing I think that prevents a lot of these types of problems is a little end of day communication. Don't be the driver that the boss has to find the next day to ask what happened. Go to the boss the same day when you roll in and let him know you had a crappy day and why. It shows concern on your part. Some people who run as stewards sometimes forget to have that dialogue as an employee concerned about the job.

I've seen a lot of arguments about management targeting people for union activities here. I can't say it does not happen but I can honestly say that we target people who we feel do not care about the job they do first. If you're the kind of person that shows absolutely no concern about the job you do then you can quickly become that target.

 

[705red]

Yes I have driven. 20 years ago fresh out of college I drove for an overnight freight company. I did that for 5 years until I'd had enough of the 14-15 hour days 6 days a week. Yes, I know that it sucks to work long days. In fact, I'm working 2 jobs now so I am actually working 13 hour days. The fact that you are overlooking or choosing to ignore is that there are actually people that intentionally do the wrong thing and that behavior affects other people. Those particular people need to be dealt with.

I applaud your loyalty and convictions to all things union, but I can't believe that you actually think every single union member is giving his all. If you do then you are extremely naive.

I can see that having an intelligent argument with you is impossible so I will concede. Good luck to you.

Your kidding right? Your comparing driving for a freight company 20 years ago for 5 years to what a ups driver does on a daily basis. There is no comparison, so who's really the one that's not debating intelligently?

 

[redshift1]

I would set realistic production goals for my employees to meet that don't reward most of them with failure for working their off. If you think that UPS has already done such than you either have not been a package car driver or if you were, you did not adhere to the methods.

Production goals must be quantifiable or performance is impossible to measure. Who's to say what "realistic production goals" are. While it sounds nice it's nebulous and vague. UPS applies stringent standards but for 60k to 70k a year with benefits what else would you expect.