Production termination!

[705red]

You never responded as to how a different job title can change how you treat or respect another human being. This is starting to sound just like what you accuse management of, demanding respect but giving none just because you are a steward. It's a title just the same as Manager is a title.


No man is better than another man! I do not care if you are talking about the pool boy to the president of the USA!

No were have i ever requested in a post or in person to be respected as a steward. You either do or you dont. I have had managers tell me to rewrite grievances to their liking! Never going to happen! I have had managers tell me my grievance has no substance and have had it thrown back at me, only to write presented to and rtsed by him/her.


So why should you behave and treat other humans one way while working for UPS and another way while working for the Teamsters? Not forgetting that Jim Casey stated that every UPSer is that first and then a Teamster.

I treat my customers with respect because they deserve it and treat me the same. When i am an employee of ups i am paid to represent the shield to the best of my ability. When i am acting as a steward i am representing the contract to the best of my ability! When acting as a steward i am no longer a driver sitting in that chair, and it might be hard for you to believe that a truck driver is considered your equal, but get over yourself!

Mr. Casey invited the teamsters in to protect the rights of the working class employees that are the back bone of this company! Do you think that he had visions on how bad some of his management team would be down the road?

Isn't this what got the guy in trouble? He was treating UPS employees (regardless of their titles) one way while on "Union Time" and another way while on UPS time to where he couldn't seem to keep the two separate?

It sounded like his manager couldn't operate his center without violating the contract at least 115 times, and the steward having a set and standing up for the contract got him in trouble. That and a manager not being able to run a center with integrity and honesty!


A man can only live with two faces for so long Red before they blend together. The language that you use as a Steward should be the same that you would say in front of your customers when delivering packages or at home with your family. The same goes for management.

My customers do not lie, cheat, steal from me at will like the company that i work for does! If you as a manager would like to be treated like one of our customers, open a store and i will turn in the lead for your business!

Why is it also that when somebody brings up valid points you pass them off as management mantra or intimidation?

Did i miss a valid point of yours? Or are you trying to take credit for what someone else said?

 

[705red]

One more thought for you Red

If the wicked witch of the west was really pro company and against this clown, why did this happen the way it did.


d

Danny even using progressive discipline, it was expedited discipline, and i have never seen disciplline that harsh and fast!

That alone points towards his union activity!

But she was unable to see past it, it is hard to get the whole scope of things that happened over the 3 days of hearings just from reading the summary.

 

[705red]

The Steward is protected from discipline resulting from Union related business or actions (such as grievances) taken on behalf of the Union. I personally feel and believe that the Executive Committee of the Brotherhood would agree with me that this protection does not extend to abusive language, regardless of the situation.

.

I agree with your bold highlighted section 100%! The clowns that are running the ibt are obciously in bed with you and the companies!

Thank god im in a seperate local that also has the same beliefs that i do! Members first!

 

[pretzel_man]

Here is the reason for the lunch period issue:

http://www.gotmealbreaks.com/

Take a look at who put up this web site. There have been many lawsuits on this issue. There have been many managers fired over this issue.

This is no "racket" on the part of UPS. The intent is to have you record your lunch and not work.

Some states are more agressive on this issue than others. California is the most agressive. They took the stance that the company has to take measures to ensure lunch is taken. Lawyers in other states have started arguing the same.

If you are being encouraged to record your lunch and work anyway, it will be easy to find a lawyer to get your and him money.

P-Man

Thats fine BrownIEman, but you get that money back and then some by forcing drivers to put 1 hour of lunch in their DIAD whether they take it or not. I've never recieved the order "You must stop 1 hour everyday for lunch and must enter the time in the DIAD". It is always "You must enter 1 hour lunch in the DIAD"

This is an enormous racket that generates millions of dollars in labor cost savings for UPS. Why are we required to "show" an hour lunch in the DIAD each day?

I'll tell you why! UPS knows that many drivers that are over-dispacthed will skip part of their lunch to finish earlier or to make a specific event. Instead of letting the driver just enter the 20 minutes it took him to eat an hour is required unless "permission" is granted from the center manager.

Why do you force the hour? The only logical reason is to obtain free labor. You are keeping a driver out on the road when its human nature to want to get home to his family. I asked for "no lunch" on X-mas eve and recieved a reply on the DIAD "Why don't you have time to take lunch you have 100% house calls?" Good friend-ing grief! I sent this message at 1745 and didn't feel like sitting in my truck until 1845 when everyone else in America was home with their family.

UPS is preying on our weakness in this matter and its shamefull in my opinion when you compare it to your "$6,000 for the 5% of the drivers" that don't meet your standards.

You make $10,000 a year off of the 1 driver that skips his lunch everyday. There is always 1 and probably 3 in a 50 car center which will bring the total to $30,000. Add to that the other 20-30% that doesn't take their entire lunch and the other 30-50% that don't take their paid 10 minute breaks and we are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars you are obtaining in free labor under your policies.

Yet, you feel a victory in proving $6,000 in slack from the workforce?

I just want a logical answer to one question and I will never argue this point again.

Why would you force the driver to take 1 full hour of lunch? Why can't you let him take what he needs and let him enter that time in the DIAD? Why can't we take 35 minutes and subtract that from our time?

 

[sano]

Here is the reason for the lunch period issue:

http://www.gotmealbreaks.com/


P-Man

From that site:
"If you don't get a lunch, the employer owes a bunch."

LOL
Is there a poetry course that attorneys that want to practice in California must take?
First it was "If the glove does not fit you must acquit" now this.

P-man, not making fun of your point, just got a kick out of the site.

 

[dannyboy]

Red

Danny even using progressive discipline, it was expedited discipline, and i have never seen disciplline that harsh and fast!

That alone points towards his union activity!

But she was unable to see past it, it is hard to get the whole scope of things that happened over the 3 days of hearings just from reading the summary.

Yes it was expedited. But when the driver has shown that he is resisting all manner of discipline and refuses ( note, I did say refused) to alter what he was doing, then as the arbitrator said, the decision was made that to continue would be a waste of time.

While the progressive discipline was very quick, it was not without president, as was demonstrated by lack of presented information to the contrary. Almost a year is not too short for the company to allow behavior changes. Especially when they even come back and lower the standards for the driver.

Mr. Casey invited the teamsters in to protect the rights of the working class employees that are the back bone of this company! Do you think that he had visions on how bad some of his management team would be down the road?

He invited them in for two reasons. One, he was a realist. He knew that first and foremost, they would be organizing them by force at some future date. So as the saying goes, you get more when you use sugar instead of vinegar. Why resist what will happen anyway. Kinda like the draft. If you know you are going to be drafted anyway, why not volunteer and get to choose what branch you serve in?

Also at the time, he was looking to expand into parts of the USA that were controlled already by unions. You want in, deal with the union. Still that way now. You want to work in this area, you gotta pay off the unions. The work can still be done by non union labor, but only if the union gets a "blackmail kick back" .......Oh I mean service charge.

So inviting the teamsters in would allow UPS to grow and expand faster than any other way. Good business move.

Then comes labor management issues. Already early on UPS were promoting those managers that showed control and lack of people skills. He had to have a process in place to counter the monster he created.

 

[dannyboy]

By the way, a little interesting tidbit from the link pretzel provided

Truck Driver Exemption

Under California law, many truck drivers are exempt from California overtime. As with loan officers, the California Labor Board will tell you that you are not entitled to overtime. However, if you don't drive a truck across state lines and the shipments that you are transporting are not part of interstate commerce, then you may be entitled to overtime under federal law. Overtime laws for truck drivers are very complex. If you think you might qualify, you can contact me, and I can look at your case.

 

[PAS'd out]

Tin


This is the only disagreement I see with what you posted. There is no production language in writing. There has always been some inferred level of production at UPS. You think UPS under our contract would not be able to do something if every driver tomorrow only delivered 5 stops in 10 hours? Your telling me before this, there was nothing they could do?

This hearing did not change a thing. And the arbitrator made it very clear that production was only a small part of why UPS got rid of him.

Any BA worth his salt would not have a hard time defending production against the company if they tried to use this as a basis for the termination. It does not set any precedence, it does not give the company any new powers over production that they already did not have.

quote]

Here is where this affects others. The other night our center manager was ecstatic about this ruling. What they are going to do according to him is to OJS every driver that signs their name to the 9.5 list and hold them accountable to the SPORH numbers from that ride. If the driver does not meet those numbers then they will be fired for failing to produce a fair days work for a fair days pay. Sounds reasonable, except as renobrown points out there are factors that can drastically affect SPORH. In my case for the next several months I will be down about 100 pieces a day on the delivery end and a bunch on the pickup side. In order to bring up the planned day I will be doing about 20 more total stops now than in June. If I sign the list now and get OJS’d now there is no way possible for me to keep up with that SPORH in the summer even though my overall paid vs. planned day will be the same or better.

 

[dannyboy]

And you are going to bury your head in the sand and do what????

Please get real

Here is where this affects others. The other night our center manager was ecstatic about this ruling. What they are going to do according to him is to OJS every driver that signs their name to the 9.5 list and hold them accountable to the SPORH numbers from that ride.

1 center manager have threatened to the beginning of time about production. And they will till hell freezes over. What he threatens and what he can actually do are usually two way different things.

First off, he is using this as black mail. You mentioned it yourself. Dont sign the 9.5 list, and you dont have a problem. Sign it and you will be targeted. Totally different than anything this covers.

Secondly they gave this guy two rides, the second one to adjust the first study. They tried to work with this clown.

Thirdly, this clown was 3-4 stops an hour off each day. Well almost. When they gave him a warning letter in the morning, he improved greatly. He also refused to work as instructed when they showed him a better method.

2 Your center manager needs to get a clue and read the whole thing, not just the parts he wants to highlight. This was not about production, it was about the whole ball of wax that makes a UPS driver.

So unless your stewards are blind and stupid, using this hearing will in no way allow them(UPS) to do any thing more than they could do a year ago.

d

 

[dannyboy]

Sounds reasonable, except as renobrown points out there are factors that can drastically affect SPORH. In my case for the next several months I will be down about 100 pieces a day on the delivery end and a bunch on the pickup side. In order to bring up the planned day I will be doing about 20 more total stops now than in June.

Which is why they tried to work with him and did a second time study to make sure they were fair to the driver. Had they not done this, their might have been some discrepancy with the first one. So a second time study to reflect the changes on area would also be needed for your area, no? Is the center manager willing to do that for your areas as well?

BTW, are you 3-4 stops an hour below your planned day?

d

 

[LastBest&Final]

What point they will try to make is: "Why is your SPORH with a supervisor so much higher than without?" If your only defense is: "there is nothing in the contract that addresses production", they will enforce progressive discipline. If your SPORH is high on a OJS, document why it is higher, and don't agree to a SPORH they feel you should be able to achieve and want to hold you accountable for. Too, many factors can change that you have no control over for you to be held accountable to meet those numbers even though you might be able too and do, but if you can't you will have to explain why you didn't. They can hold you accountable for not using your methods, so do the best you can in doing that. If you put effort in doing all the Safety methods, and cutting out all and any unapproved short cuts that save time but isn't a UPS method. Your SPORH might drop during your OJS, but don't let the on car sup harass you into working unsafe or not following some of UPS's time wasting methods and procedures. You are expected to follow them each and every day without a supervisor, so you should follow them with one no matter what he says. Start building a case that will discredit the point that you work one way supervised and another not supervised.

My take on why he got terminate was that he would not or could not give a reason for the difference in production, and not just that he had poor production. Keep your records of your production on your safety rides, and if your SPORH is low. Have them explain why when your expected to work safe your production goes down. Make every day a safe day.

 

[New Englander]

Bottom line is that the company should absolutely have recourse in dealing with an absolute donkey of an employee.

If the Union honestly thinks we all should have a job with UPS even if we give our absolute worst every day - I lose some respect for the Union. I absolutely lose respect to all of you who think we should.

 

[backinbrown]

how is that? As a cover driver the you typically drop and run, while the regular driver goes out of his way and puts the packages were the customer would like them.

The regular drivers tends to take his/her lunch, while the burner/cover driver doesn't.

The regular driver knows how to drive with the bulk head door closed, while the cover driver doesnt know how to close the bulk head.

Regular driver can move at a brisk pace, while the cover driver runs balls to the wall.

Regular driver has to work all the tracers from the no lunch taking, no method following runner cover driver.

amen i couldnt agree more, i am shocked though that somebody was fired for spore here in northern new england we dont recognize those numbers those are the companys numbers not the unions contract says we cant be fired for production im blown away,

 

[LastBest&Final]

UPS gets rid of many donkey's of an employees every day, and the union has the job of defending them the best they can (justice for all). We know it does always work the way is should, but it the best system we have. If there are employee that give their absolute worst every day, they most like would be the first to go. The company should have no problem getting rid of them, but if they are working hard and diligently they shouldn't terminated because of things that are out of their control.

 

[dilligaf]

UPS gets rid of many donkey's of an employees every day, and the union has the job of defending them the best they can (justice for all). We know it does always work the way is should, but it the best system we have. If there are employee that give their absolute worst every day, they most like would be the first to go. The company should have no problem getting rid of them, but if they are working hard and diligently they shouldn't terminated because of things that are out of their control.

I don't agree with the first part of your staement. UPS does not get rid of the jackasses that they should get rid of. They are the ones that are in the back pockets of mgt and therefore protected. Runners and gunners.

Bottom line is that the company should absolutely have recourse in dealing with an absolute donkey of an employee.

If the Union honestly thinks we all should have a job with UPS even if we give our absolute worst every day - I lose some respect for the Union. I absolutely lose respect to all of you who think we should.

Bottom line is they should get rid of the jackasses and not protect them. But they are in the back pocket of mgt and therefore protected. Runners and gunners.

 

[New Englander]

I don't agree with the first part of your staement. UPS does not get rid of the jackasses that they should get rid of. They are the ones that are in the back pockets of mgt and therefore protected. Runners and gunners.


Bottom line is they should get rid of the jackasses and not protect them. But they are in the back pocket of mgt and therefore protected. Runners and gunners.

Yeah! What ever makes you feel better about yourself I guess.

 

[dilligaf]

Yeah! What ever makes you feel better about yourself I guess.

Ya same to ya!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Yeah! What ever makes you feel better about yourself I guess.

What she said is the ABSOLUTE truth.

I work inside 22.3 , have been evaluated /harrassed/targeted 5 days in a row - methods, pph, handling, etc etc.

This is definitly harrassment and I don't care. Supervisors watching me constantly , trying to make my life hell ( so they think)

The problem is there are worse employees iwht handling, methods, pph and no one bothers them. for example: My own part-time sup told me "you are far from the worst sorter". Yet they have been targeting me every day for a week.

Same thing goes for "runners and gunners". They don't follow methods, skip lunches, leave their truck running, etc etc.

Inside -THere are employees that throw packages, drop them on bottom slides, no regard for anything -but because they move 1500 or 2000 per hour, they are left alone.


There is absolutely no regard for what is right and wrong. It is simply who management likes and dislikes.

 

[New Englander]

What she said is the ABSOLUTE truth.

I work inside 22.3 , have been evaluated /harrassed/targeted 5 days in a row - methods, pph, handling, etc etc.

This is definitly harrassment and I don't care. Supervisors watching me constantly , trying to make my life hell ( so they think)

The problem is there are worse employees iwht handling, methods, pph and no one bothers them. for example: My own part-time sup told me "you are far from the worst sorter". Yet they have been targeting me every day for a week.

Same thing goes for "runners and gunners". They don't follow methods, skip lunches, leave their truck running, etc etc.

Inside -THere are employees that throw packages, drop them on bottom slides, no regard for anything -but because they move 1500 or 2000 per hour, they are left alone.


There is absolutely no regard for what is right and wrong. It is simply who management likes and dislikes.

It's not the absolute truth. It's what you guys believe to get through your days or nights easier.

 

[dilligaf]

It's not the absolute truth. It's what you guys believe to get through your days or nights easier.

You and UPS Vette deserve each other..........so when are you going into mgt.