Discussion in 'The Archives' started by upslocal480, Oct 9, 2002.

  1. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    Over9fife...we call the safety meetings here "Scam Meetings" because they promise prize drawings and such for the shifts that go certain amounts of time with no injuries. Well, we have gotten corny hats and t-shirts that are given away at hubs for doing nothing and we've had a drawing for a tv but the guy that won it has yet to receive it and its been 7 months.

    UPSScorpis...We load two pups. On average one trailer is 60-75% and the other, which is what I usually load, is just a full belly. The magazines were coming on a package car 90% of the time over the past year and there would usually be around 300. Sometimes allot more and sometimes allot less. I think there is a certain number that has to be reached for them to make it a feeder pick up (which comes here and not the hub) because of the weight of them I guess. Sometimes they'd just have another driver help and not send the feeder. If it was gonna be 5-8 skids worth they'd make it a feeder pick up but anything more than that would go to the hub. Well lately they are wanting us to unload it here no matter how much it is. Tonight they switched from the usual 28 ft trailer to a 53 ft. trailer!! There were 8 skids on there tonight but supposedly the reason for the switch was so that they could fit 16 or more skids on one load instead of having to send one trailer to the hub and bringing the other one here.
  2. happy

    happy Guest

    On the safety meetings being a scam.... I agree all management ratings or raises are based on 12 items. 1 of the 12 is loss ime injuries. If a center has an injury they will not make their goals and thus get a smaller raise if even a raise. Then the Division manager will not make their goal. We all know that Division Mgrs. don't like to see a cut in pay as well as look bad.They also don't like to have to explain it on a conference call. The more injuries the more conference calls. It's a joke!
  3. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    Hmmm. I didn't know that about raises for sups. Do they get bonuses for things like running certain ammounts of volume through or anything like that?
  4. upscorpis

    upscorpis Guest

    To say UPS doesn't care about safety is foolish. When people gripe about safety not being addressed, they like to point out that it will cost more so the company won't do anything to address it. The reality is a safe work place reduces overall costs. Did you ever think about what losing one injury law suit would cost vs. the cost to avoid it to begin with? There can be honest debate over whether prescribed work methods designed for safety are adequate vs. providing some other remedy, i.e. equipment or facility modifications. This will always exist since everyone has an opinion. I'm not going to say that all local management teams adhere to safety as an overall goal. I understand that type of short sightedness exists. In a very large orginization, it's not hard to imagine some bad apples in the bunch but realize that goes for management and non-management alike. However, the premise that UPS doesn't care about safety is plain wrong.

    As far as raises being based on operational performance, why would that be surprising? If lost time due to injury is on my evaluation, wouldn't that motivate me to have a safe workplace? I'm sure production numbers are part of the picture as are misloads, damages, load quality, etc. Trying to achieve good production and quality results in a safe workplace? What's not to like about that? There are no bonuses like you described, upslocal480. Why are conference calls aimed at holding people accountable and resolving problems a joke? Would you rather that problems go unaddressed? You'd surely complain then.

    Back to my orignal reason for responding to this thread: It sounds like your total volume is 1600-2000pcs. With that many folks on the sort, you definitely are underutilized. Not counting clerk and wash hours, a 3 hour sort at 2000pcs is 133pph. Add another 500-800 pcs provided by the feeder load in the same span and production jumps to 167-187pph. Normally, one person unloading should be optimal, if the rollers stay put. As previosly mentioned, pushing the volume down the belt with not enough folks to catch it is counter-productive as you end up chasing the volume down the belt to the load/pickoff positions. One unloader, one pickoff, and two loaders should work well, provided that the volume is not overwhelmingly going into one feeder such that one loader can't handle the flow.

    If you can estimate a time savings with good rollers, you can come up with a compelling case to get new ones. For example, say you can save 10 minutes on the sort span x 5 people = 50 minutes (.83hrs) each night. If the volume is 2500pcs nightly with the trailer, that equates to 177pph with a span of 2.83hrs with new rollers vs. 166pph with a span of 3.0hrs with broken rollers. .83hrs saved nightly times the hourly rate (including benefits), estimate $20, and the rollers are payed for over a short period of time. Add in the additional avoided damages and safety elements and it's a no brainer.
  5. wkmac

    wkmac Guest

    I'd like to respond to the issue of safety at UPS. First off, it's not a perfect world and none of us gets everything we want so keep that in mind also.

    When CHSP was first formed in the mid-1990's our company wide LWDII was in the mid 20's with the industry itself at about 14. By 1997' the UPS LWDII was in the upper teens and many felt we had reached success so the focus on CHSP was scaled back. The next year the LWDII started trending back up so UPS refocused CHSP and since then the LWDII has trended down to last year around that 14 mark which drove the industry number down as well. UPS saw value added results from this and pushing safety is not only important from a human standpoint but it's also extremely cost effective.

    Another area where UPS has IMO gone "WAY" overboard has to do with conveyor guarding. OSHA has guarding standards set but UPS goes way beyond those standards and for me they are a royal pain in the A##! However, I do understand and appreciate why UPS does this so if you want to belly ache about a lot of things at UPS I'll belly ache with you I'm sure but when it comes to safety, from a Corp standpoint, I'll defend them all day long because of firsthand experience. JMO!

  6. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    Your not answering the question, does your local sort work the same number of people each day regardless of the volume?
  7. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    I have already answered that.....
    "We have 9 people on our shift (unloader, splitter, 2 loaders, smalls, clerk, 2 car washers, clerk). We are usually one man short because one guy is a driver sometimes so we are usually stuck with 8 people"
  8. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    UPS talks allot about safety and puts allot of time and money into coming up with what they think is clever and useful programs but doesn't "walk the walk" as far as all that is concerned. Nothing actually gets done but I guess as long as we have a monthly meeting or a bunch of PCMs about it then I guess they think there job is done. I guess as long as management force feeds us a spoon full of acronyms such as CHSP then its all goood. Acronyms seem to be a trade mark of UPS management these days. It takes more than reading us acronyms and more than the hourlys working more safely because when there is unsafe equipment envolved then "production" slows down or someone is getting hurt. Or even both. Maybe management should figure that into their little equations so they won't be so shocked when they see their belts stopping and when they have to call in injurys that could have been avoided if they would just have spent UPS money on working conditions or equipment instead of going out and "acquiring" more businesses. I think that if they actually practiced what they preached about safety then their profits would benefit simply because there would be less injuries across the board.
  9. therodog

    therodog Guest

    All the Saftey crap was forced on UPS, thats why i dont take it seriously, they should have been doing this at day 1. A lot of CHSP people quit because its bull:censored2:. All they care about is getting the packages processed at a certain time. Our building is already over the six(6) injuries for the year allowed too...[​IMG]
  10. over9five

    over9five Guest

    At UPS we'll do anything to improve our overall safety (unless we have to spend money to do it).

    Take a walk around a UPS building. Ask how many drivers are getting treatment for severe tendonitis because for YEARS UPS threw away safety to save $18 on package cars by deleting power steering. Do you know how hard it is to steer a large vehicle without power steering all day? Do you know how easy it would be to retrofit these cars with power steering? (Oh, but then we'd have to spend money).

    No one else (DHL, Fedex, Airborne) uses vehicles without power steering.

    Just another example to add to 480 s.
  11. whatsthetune

    whatsthetune Guest


    Where'd you get the $18 figure? Oh, yes, it came from a dark place.

    CHSP committees can be effective or not, no surprise. The most effective ones are those with active non-management members and management teams that support them. you think the biggest cause of injuries is equipment? If you answered yes, you're wrong. It's BEHAVIORS. People not following proper methods and procedures, like bending legs when lifting.

    Wait, before you chime in that you are worked too hard to do the job right... in 25 years with UPS, hourly and management, I have never had ANYONE show me that they could not do the standard job required at UPS while following methods. Many folks tried to demonstrate sloth and even most of them could do the job using proper methods.

    One problem for safety and performance is that a lot of people think they know how to do the job and they don't. This goes for mgt and hourly.
  12. over9five

    over9five Guest

    "Where'd you get the $18 figure? " I made it up. Lets say it was $500 (but I still think it was closer to $18). How much money do you think Liberty Mutual (courtesy of UPS) pays for each driver suffering from elbow or shoulder pain caused by steering a large vehicle without power steering to go see the doctor, get medication, physical therapy, etc? Thousands. And then if they decide on surgery? All that money to save $500.

    "do you think the biggest cause of injuries is equipment?" No, of course not. I made a specific example in my post.

    "Wait, before you chime in that you are worked too hard to do the job right... " I never said that. If you read my post, it specifically relates to turning the steering wheel, NOT working too hard, sloth, or using proper methods.

    I also said it was just another example to add to 480's.

    Whatsthetune, Did you even read my post? After the $18 question, I wasnt even sure if you were responding to me or someone else.
  13. proups

    proups Guest

    When you look in the mirror each morning, you are looking at the person responsible for your safety.

    Those who think their employer is responsible are wrong. People have worked in conditions much worse than we have in other industries, and have very good safety records. That is because they work hard not to get hurt and still perform at the levels their employers expect them to.

    I have hurt myself on the job three times in my 20+ years at UPS. When I think about those injuries, I realize that I wasn't following methods or my safety training.

    Don't blame Brown....blame the person repsonsible for your safety!
  14. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    No I blame "Brown". Its their fault we still use dangerous equipment. There is no safe methods that will help change that. You can bend at the knees and lift with your legs until you are blue in the face but it doesnt help a bit when portable rollers are being thrown together to sometimes appear like the work from the "A TEAM" and they fall apart. Its not our fault that other rollers in the building are so old they can't support the weight of more than a few heavy packages and usually send them crashing back towards the person unloading. That happens to me all the time and I almost broke a finger the other night as a result of it. Its quite clear that those CHSP programs and such only work for basic jobs such as loading and unloading but don't help at all with equipment issus. Its also clear that managment thinks they are in the clear by inforcing such programs and don't think its necessary to address the equipment issue because all they have to do when an accident happens is blame the hourlys, like for everything else, and just say "We told you so" and "Thats what CHSP is there for".
  15. upscorpis

    upscorpis Guest

    Upslocal480, I gave you a stong business case for resolving your roller problem. Start being part of the solution. UPS has been successful due good people, both hourly and management. Do you want to be one of those people? If all you can do is fan the flames on a message board, do you feel that resolves your real life issue?
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Guest

    "No I blame "Brown". Its their fault we still use dangerous equipment. There is no safe methods that will help change that."

    Now your getting closer to the truth. The fact is from the first day you've posted to this board you have shown an affinity to be a UPS hater and whiner. No one will ever make you happy at UPS. You will always blame them for any and all shortcomings you posess. Stop your whining and grow up or go to a company you do feel meets your pampered needs. Us men have a job to do and don't need any whining wusses getting in the way.
  17. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    Tie Guy....You are a joke. Classic cold hearted supervisor with the ignorant "if you don't like it go elswhere" attitude. Only a fool would accuse someone of stating a legit claim such as work place safety as being a whiner. Its people like you that dont give a crap about what goes on in the workplace that ruin it and its people like you that make things the way they are. I bet you are one of those people that says stupid comments like "oh well life isnt fair". WRONG! Life is what we make of it and a safer workplace is a fixable problem but I guess we all just need to stick out our chests and be men and except the fact that getting hurt is just part of the job huh? There are two types of people at UPS. The ones that "whine" and the ones that are responsible for why those people are whining. I'm not sorry that my posts don't satisfy your reading pleasure and not sorry that my life at UPS isn't perfect like yours is. I have every right to "whine" about safety and monetary concerns. Monday I will go to work and ask for an additional pay cut and wear sandles while I unload and just let the fualty equipment send packages crashing into my knee caps. And when my supervisor asks me why I've wore sandles and crushed all my toes and why I've taken another pay cut and why my knee caps are busted.... I'll just reply..."Oh I'm just trying to be one of the men and us men have a job to do" and appoligize for being foolish enough to ever have whined about safety and getting a pay cut.

    (Message edited by upslocal480 on October 20, 2002)
  18. upslocal480

    upslocal480 Guest

    Upslocal480, I gave you a stong business case for resolving your roller problem. Start being part of the solution. UPS has been successful due good people, both hourly and management. Do you want to be one of those people? If all you can do is fan the flames on a message board, do you feel that resolves your real life issue?

    UPSCorpis. Thanks for not resorting to Tieguy tactics when responding. I, and others on the shift, have suggested new rollers MANY MANY times. We've been doing it for over a year. I've also pointed out the fact that production is slower by using those rollers and also for other reasons. I "fan the flames" on this board simply because its a UPS Board and with the hope that someone thats been through a similiar situation might be of some help. Also because....well...simply because this is a message board for UPS and this is one of the many things we talk about on here. Its a shame people like Tieguy have to act like pricks because they don't have a good suggestion or because they simply don't agree. I hate responding in the way I do sometimes but I think everyone gets pissed off sometimes. I think the best example of me mentioning one set of rollers we have was just last week when I showed my supervisor my smashed bloody finger. What else should we have to do here to get something done about it? I guess I'm waisting my time asking because I'm sure I'll just be called a whiner You seem more calm and intelligent than a couple of others and seem to be able to disagree without being a butt-hole so I'll just ask you....what do you suggest we do?

    (Message edited by upslocal480 on October 20, 2002)
  19. wkmac

    wkmac Guest

    I'm not totally familiar with your roller situation but if you're talking about Roller sections ie gravity rollers I might offer a suggestion. If you are currently using the T-stand type yes they are worthless, dangerous and over the long haul less cost effective.

    Have your local management contact your District PE folks about getting some Hytrol Roller Sections with H-Stands. They can be obtained in aluminum for lighter weight but the H-stand design offers a much safer conveyor and more cost effective longer term. The H-Stand gives far greater stability which covers the safety part but the old T-stands were also less cost effective because the stands needed constant maintenance and from year to year stands were being lost and new ones continuously purchased. The H-Stand legs are permanently attached to roller section and you can remove one bolt and the legs fold under the roller section for easy storage. (Peak Season only roller sections) There is even a place to store the locking bolt so you'll have that every time. Also get the 1.9 inch diameter roller with the minimum conveyor width of 24 inches. (JMO) If the package handling at your location is good get the aluminum rollers to save weight but if this is not the case get the steel rollers because they will hold up better longterm. Also specify sealed, greased packed bearings for the rollers (should be standard anyway). If exposed to the weather make sure you get galvanized conveyors.

    I've found this setup to not only answer the safety question but for those $$$$$ wise management types it answers the cost effective part also. Hope this helps.

    Conveyors and Drives is an Industrial Supplyhouse who carries Hytrol.
  20. proups

    proups Guest

    480 - I agree with the can be a part of the solution rather than just blaming Brown.

    When I was a part-timer, and we had equipment problems, we wrote them up on a Daily Equipment Condition Report until they got fixed. "We" being the hourly employees that had to use that equipment. The mechanics get a copy of it, and get the problem fixed. It helps when you write it up as a safety related problem. And lastly, write it up every day....this drives the PE guys nuts!