Right to work states

[Lineandinitial]

Bossman,i'm not implying you,anyone in your center or any one you know is as i described. I was simply pointing out the common traits the majority of the Anti Union Freeloading Scabs in my building seem to share

I have seen quite a few "freeloaders" in my time at UPS. I judge them just like you judge them.
I think I'd categorize as many Teamsters as "Freeloaders" as i would some management people.
Every hourly that chooses not to be represented by the Union seems to be a hard worker that doesn't get wrapped up in the politics of Freeloading or oyther such games played by groups for different reasons.
I managed a group of people and a few crossed the picket line in 1997. They were all excellent workers and good people that didn't bring their whiney issues up everytime the wind blew in the direction they didn't agree with. Not all "represented" people do either, but since the subject came up about "Freeloading scabs", I have to disagree about who you are stating they are.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

I have seen quite a few "freeloaders" in my time at UPS. I judge them just like you judge them.
I think I'd categorize as many Teamsters as "Freeloaders" as i would some management people.
Every hourly that chooses not to be represented by the Union seems to be a hard worker that doesn't get wrapped up in the politics of Freeloading or oyther such games played by groups for different reasons.
I managed a group of people and a few crossed the picket line in 1997. They were all excellent workers and good people that didn't bring their whiney issues up everytime the wind blew in the direction they didn't agree with. Not all "represented" people do either, but since the subject came up about "Freeloading scabs", I have to disagree about who you are stating they are.

And just as you disagree with 728ups' depiction of scabs, so do I with yours. While some of the non-members I deal with in the hub come in and bust their asses to keep management off their backs (admittedly, there are a decent number of them and if they feel like destroying their bodies to keep from paying $40/month in dues then that's on them), we have some that would simply not make it in a non-union shop.

For example, the worst attendance record I've seen in my area is from a non-member who has almost been fired two years in a row for not coming to work; she even made herself puke at work in order to go home early for an entire week running during the summer while she was skeeted out on pills and recovering from a hangover. We have another non-member that will intentionally sandbag if she doesn't get to go home at least 2 days a week, another that goes ballistic and throws a temper tantrum when we have to stay and work late. And my personal favorite is the one that has been coming in late regularly and not punching in, effectively stealing time when their time card is verified at the end of the sort.

 

[RealPerson]

And just as you disagree with 728ups' depiction of scabs, so do I with yours. While some of the non-members I deal with in the hub come in and bust their asses to keep management off their backs (admittedly, there are a decent number of them and if they feel like destroying their bodies to keep from paying $40/month in dues then that's on them), we have some that would simply not make it in a non-union shop.

For example, the worst attendance record I've seen in my area is from a non-member who has almost been fired two years in a row for not coming to work; she even made herself puke at work in order to go home early for an entire week running during the summer while she was skeeted out on pills and recovering from a hangover. We have another non-member that will intentionally sandbag if she doesn't get to go home at least 2 days a week, another that goes ballistic and throws a temper tantrum when we have to stay and work late. And my personal favorite is the one that has been coming in late regularly and not punching in, effectively stealing time when their time card is verified at the end of the sort.

So if you are in the Union, you get lower MAR's. NO
People in my building are held to the same standards if they are in the union or not.
Heck I don't even think my Management knows who is or is not in the union, they treat everyone like they are.

Now given that, there will be Lazy People on Both ends and hard workers on both ends.

So, PS, if this Female is a Non Member and has an attendance issue, why is she still employed???

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

In my center its primarily the opposite end of that spectrum that does that. But as I was trying to say......we have people of varying backgrounds that do that and the backgrounds of of the people that are paying dues vary as well.

Bossman,i'm not implying you,anyone in your center or any one you know is as i described. I was simply pointing out the common traits the majority of the Anti Union Freeloading Scabs in my building seem to share

And I was implying that the common traits you describe in your building don't apply to everywhere else. Those traits are definitely not mutually exclusive.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

So if you are in the Union, you get lower MAR's. NO
People in my building are held to the same standards if they are in the union or not.
Heck I don't even think my Management knows who is or is not in the union, they treat everyone like they are.

Now given that, there will be Lazy People on Both ends and hard workers on both ends.

So, PS, if this Female is a Non Member and has an attendance issue, why is she still employed???

Lower management (FT supervisors and below) typically will not know the status of an employee's union membership, unless they're told. Sort Managers/Division managers almost certainly have the ability to find out, but the company typically won't go to the trouble unless said employee is going to panel.

I can't really tell you why said mentioned female employee still has a job because I don't know. I cannot/will not push UPS to enforce attendance policies they created, but a great deal of it has to do with new hire turnover. Since she hasn't been actually terminated, the union really has no role to play.

 

[Lineandinitial]

And just as you disagree with 728ups' depiction of scabs, so do I with yours. While some of the non-members I deal with in the hub come in and bust their asses to keep management off their backs (admittedly, there are a decent number of them and if they feel like destroying their bodies to keep from paying $40/month in dues then that's on them), we have some that would simply not make it in a non-union shop.

For example, the worst attendance record I've seen in my area is from a non-member who has almost been fired two years in a row for not coming to work; she even made herself puke at work in order to go home early for an entire week running during the summer while she was skeeted out on pills and recovering from a hangover. We have another non-member that will intentionally sandbag if she doesn't get to go home at least 2 days a week, another that goes ballistic and throws a temper tantrum when we have to stay and work late. And my personal favorite is the one that has been coming in late regularly and not punching in, effectively stealing time when their time card is verified at the end of the sort.

Maybe not being a unionized workers has more perks than you realize?
How do you have so much detailed, factual and most probably verifiable information on these tow (possibly three) female employees? Are you checking them out all the time so you notice these things? Maybe don't like women and so you have a bead on these two (maybe three)?
Are you simply trying to effectively argue that non-unionized workers are getting a better deal than you? Simply informing us that non-union workers have bad attendance records, get close to termination, go home early, take pills, have hangovers, puke on purpose, sandbag if they "can't go home at least 2 days a week", go ballistic and throws temper tantrums when having to work late, come in late and steal time?
Not sure what you're saying here, help me out.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

Maybe not being a unionized workers has more perks than you realize?
How do you have so much detailed, factual and most probably verifiable information on these tow (possibly three) female employees? Are you checking them out all the time so you notice these things? Maybe don't like women and so you have a bead on these two (maybe three)?
Are you simply trying to effectively argue that non-unionized workers are getting a better deal than you? Simply informing us that non-union workers have bad attendance records, get close to termination, go home early, take pills, have hangovers, puke on purpose, sandbag if they "can't go home at least 2 days a week", go ballistic and throws temper tantrums when having to work late, come in late and steal time?
Not sure what you're saying here, help me out.

I was making the point that there are employees "gaming the system" on either end (union member/non-member) while you were earlier insisting that the non-members you've dealt with have been "better" workers.

You earlier said:

Every hourly that chooses not to be represented by the Union seems to be a hard worker that doesn't get wrapped up in the politics of Freeloading or oyther such games played by groups for different reasons.

I was providing similarly anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Nice attempt at trying to paint me as a sexist, though.

 

[RealPerson]

Lower management (FT supervisors and below) typically will not know the status of an employee's union membership, unless they're told. Sort Managers/Division managers almost certainly have the ability to find out, but the company typically won't go to the trouble unless said employee is going to panel.

I can't really tell you why said mentioned female employee still has a job because I don't know. I cannot/will not push UPS to enforce attendance policies they created, but a great deal of it has to do with new hire turnover. Since she hasn't been actually terminated, the union really has no role to play.

Thanks for your answer.

Looks like Union people have an ace in the hole then. You can use her case to miss a lot of work. IDK, it is different in all parts of the USA..

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

May be a little late, but just now reading this thread. Just to clarify for some of the posts at the beginning, just because it's a right to work state, doesn't mean there is no union. At my hub, I would estimate between 50% and 75% are union. 99% of fulltimers or so are union. Part-timers are a different story, I would estimate roughly 30%, with the majority being 3+ yrs in seniority. (these numbers estimated from the people I know, and the people they know.)

However, lol...I would unfortunately expect a number of the pcd's that I know to cross. Just the impression I have got from some of them. Kinda sad.

Because of the low amount of newbie's that don't join, I could see that number being drastically different in about 15 years.

 

[didyousheetit]

Not really. Costco is unionized on the west coast and they haven't started jacking up costs yet.

The only major change we would likely see would be members of the Walton family having to downsize from a 72' yacht to a 60 footer and maybe having to switch over to generic caviar from the name brand. Also, there's a good chance the Walton children each might have to sell their third summer home, leaving them with only two.

that's not fair. They earned those three summer homes

 

[728ups]

And I was implying that the common traits you describe in your building don't apply to everywhere else. Those traits are definitely not mutually exclusive.

bossman, i never said they applied to anyone but the folks in my center. I seem to have really struck a nerve with you,but my comments really weren't aimed at you

 

[728ups]

I have seen quite a few "freeloaders" in my time at UPS. I judge them just like you judge them.
I think I'd categorize as many Teamsters as "Freeloaders" as i would some management people.
Every hourly that chooses not to be represented by the Union seems to be a hard worker that doesn't get wrapped up in the politics of Freeloading or oyther such games played by groups for different reasons.
I managed a group of people and a few crossed the picket line in 1997. They were all excellent workers and good people that didn't bring their whiney issues up everytime the wind blew in the direction they didn't agree with. Not all "represented" people do either, but since the subject came up about "Freeloading scabs", I have to disagree about who you are stating they are.

If an hourly dosent want to be represented by the Union that hourly shouldn't get the pay,benefits ,retirement and protection that Union employees receive hence the use of the term' freeloader'

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

bossman, i never said they applied to anyone but the folks in my center. I seem to have really struck a nerve with you,but my comments really weren't aimed at you

I acknowledge that you were speaking for your own center. But you clearly left an impression that you believe that its that particular type of person that tends to behave that way. I am simply telling you that it's not quite so in other areas. No nerve was struck. No big deal.

 

[RealPerson]

If an hourly dosent want to be represented by the Union that hourly shouldn't get the pay,benefits ,retirement and protection that Union employees receive hence the use of the term' freeloader'

Starting Hourly pay Sucks..
Benefits and Retirement are paid by UPS. Dues do not go towards this...

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Starting Hourly pay Sucks..
Benefits and Retirement are paid by UPS. Dues do not go towards this...

Do you think UPS would hand over these benefits and pay without a union? I doubt it! The starting pay is a bit weak,but the 32+ an hour is pretty Dam good! Just have to put your time in.

 

[mamirk69]

This was an interesting thread. I will say this and leave it at this. The union is great when you have the right individuals in office taking care of all the members and not their special interest groups that happened to vote for them in an election. The union in the south is poor for many reasons and it starts with better communication, horse trading and deals being made left and right with individuals being used as chest pieces. BA's are greener than ever and nothing ever of meaning gets resolved or as some would say "individuals are fighting the wrong fights." Laughable, especially when people were fighting for full time jobs but that is the wrong fight. The foundation Unions were built on being better pay, benefits, and equality etc., etc., makes sense but as we see in Congress what makes sense does not always turn out right. As to rights, in a right to work state, an individual has all the same rights as a union member except voting on union officials and of course the strike fund but outside of that; it is even across the board even down to voting on the contract but that individual would have to go through the headache of going through the union to receive a ballot.

I have read some comments by some people I know on this board and I have to shake my head. Sometimes it is best to say nothing at all then to bring this façade of individuals being poor workers based on their union activity.

 

[Macbrother]

The union in the south is poor for many reasons and it starts with better communication, horse trading and deals being made left and right with individuals being used as chest pieces. BA's are greener than ever and nothing ever of meaning gets resolved or as some would say "individuals are fighting the wrong fights." Laughable, especially when people were fighting for full time jobs but that is the wrong fight.

Couldn't agree with you more. Seniority rights routinely violated, RTD drivers driving well into January without being made full time, grieved time and time again with the response "the union gave UPS special permission to do x, y, and z."

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Couldn't agree with you more. Seniority rights routinely violated, RTD drivers driving well into January without being made full time, grieved time and time again with the response "the union gave UPS special permission to do x, y, and z."

Same thing happens in our "strong" northern local and I am sure others. In fact, I will always argue that compulsory membership only leads to worse results.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Same thing happens in our "strong" northern local and I am sure others. In fact, I will always argue that compulsory membership only leads to worse results.

No...you shouldnt be forced to join the union. But you shouldnt expect the same benefits and protection as a union member! You only get what you pay for...enough said!

 

[Box Ox]

What I pay the union weekly in my RTW state is well worth feeling free to jaw with sups who are also under pressure to push crazy volume with far fewer resources than they should have. There's a mutual respect that probably wouldn't be there if sups could can me anytime for looking out for myself.