Scott Walker

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
If Fred didn't have the RLA, Express would have a contractor model or at the least be scaled back. Wouldn't affect Ground unionizing in the least.
We already been through this. There's a reason why express is all employees. And it has nothing to do with the RLA. Do you really think Fred would have the RLA exemption if it kept him from having the scam model?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
We already been through this. There's a reason why express is all employees. And it has nothing to do with the RLA. Do you really think Fred would have the RLA exemption if it kept him from having the scam model?
Again, Express as a union operation would.be massively scaled back and still would not impact Ground unionizing.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
How much debt has your boys added to that? How much have they increased the deficit since then? Please don't answer because its as depressing as watching the national debt clock.
Please don't act like there is truly a fiscally conservative party in this country. That's just willfully stupid or outrageously ignorant.
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
Again, Express as a union operation would.be massively scaled back and still would not impact Ground unionizing.
So they would just hand over high revenue freight to UPS? It's hard to scale back the Express division when you are trying to be the biggest INTERNATIONAL carrier. Let me know when you're trucks travel across the globe.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
We can roll it all into "compensation".
Come on now ... you are a business person.
Wages are expenses incurred as income is generated.
Pensions and healthcare are long-term debt funded (underfunded really) by pennies expected to accrue value through investments. Right now, those pension type guaranteed investments are getting an ROI around 1% instead of 8 %.
With some risk, the ROI goes up to 4%.
The biggest debt of many public sector (government) "businesses" are pension and guaranteed healthcare.
Most of these public sector debts are generated from people working as little as 10 years.
And their pensions are almost as much or more than their take home pay after only 20 - 25 years.
Ask the UPSers, whose company is one of the most profitable and successful of the private corporations offering pensions and healthcare.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Come on now ... you are a business person.
Wages are expenses incurred as income is generated.
Pensions and healthcare are long-term debt funded (underfunded really) by pennies expected to accrue value through investments. Right now, those pension type guaranteed investments are getting an ROI around 1% instead of 8 %.
With some risk, the ROI goes up to 4%.
The biggest debt of many public sector (government) "businesses" are pension and guaranteed healthcare.
Most of these public sector debts are generated from people working as little as 10 years.
And their pensions are almost as much or more than their take home pay after only 20 - 25 years.
Ask the UPSers, whose company is one of the most profitable and successful of the private corporations offering pensions and healthcare.
I have asked UPSERS here and insist that their pensions are part of their union/company negotiated compensation.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
So they would just hand over high revenue freight to UPS? It's hard to scale back the Express division when you are trying to be the biggest INTERNATIONAL carrier. Let me know when you're trucks travel across the globe.
We've been over this before too. Express Saver and others go to Ground etc.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Alright, if you are going to play dumb, I'll go elsewhere.
Actually, now you have me wondering.

If the investments don't meet the promised payout to pension recipients, who picks up the difference or are they just SOL?
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Actually, now you have me wondering.

If the investments don't meet the promised payout to pension recipients, who picks up the difference or are they just SOL?
UPS picks up the difference now.
UPS has paid out over 9 Billion to reenergize investment levels since 2008.
It varies by company.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Actually, now you have me wondering.

If the investments don't meet the promised payout to pension recipients, who picks up the difference or are they just SOL?
For public sector, taxes pay for it ... there is no such thing as not funding although some municipalities have forced negotiations from the Unions by threatening or going into bankruptcy.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
UPS picks up the difference now.
UPS has paid out over 9 Billion to reenergize investment levels since 2008.
It varies by company.
So then wouldn't that money be considered in the "wages and expenses" part of the ledger the same as other compensation?
 

Orion inc.

I like turtles
Again, Express as a union operation would.be massively scaled back and still would not impact Ground unionizing.

Absolutely it would affect ground because two things would happen: it would be easier to unionize if express was already unionized. And Fred would have to combine his operations to save costs if express did go union. Which in turn, the grounds would just be put on express for cost reasons like ups does. If he combined his service levels like ups, fedex would mirror ups in production standards, sporh etc etc.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
For public sector, taxes pay for it ... there is no such thing as not funding although some municipalities have forced negotiations from the Unions by threatening or going into bankruptcy.
Then really taxes need to go up and municipalitiesneed to honor the contracts they entered into.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Absolutely it would affect ground because two things would happen: it would be easier to unionize if express was already unionized. And Fred would have to combine his operations to save costs if express did go union. Which in turn, the grounds would just be put on express for cost reasons like ups does. If he combined his service levels like ups, fedex would mirror ups in production standards, sporh etc etc.
Fred would never combine the two. The cost savings would not offset what he would give up in the ISP model.
 
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