TDU in action at ups!

[oldmetrony]

If people don't care to get involved things wont get better.

The company doesn't work for us, it hasn't been working for us. Therefore we need to change it. We made it change in 97 by striking them. Name calling because you can't when on facts, pathetic. Sticking up for the company, pathetic. Have you such a low opinion of yourself that you don't think you deserve better, pathetic. I know I deserve better. If we can't get a substantial increase in the starting pay there will be a lot of people drinking kool aid because that is all that they will be able to afford.

The last time I looked my paycheck said UPS on it , not local ???, I don't know about you but UPS puts the food on my table by way of a well deserved paycheck every week. I am not saying that the company is right in their actions every step of the way but that is what the grievance procedure is for if you get that far that you have to utilize it. Maybe if you stopped eating that TDU Bull____ you might have a better outlook on life in general. It seems that you want to make everything a war. The company this the company that...that is what I call pathetic.

 

[Brother Joe]

ups does not give us a check out of the kindness of their heart. They use as few workers as possible & manage by stress. We made them give us 10,000 jobs & every thing else we won in 97. It was through struggle. I'm the hardest working man in the history of hard work, but I realize I get nothing for my hard work but more hard work. You think your paycheck is well deserved? Now thats Patheic! What have you done to deserve it? What have you done to build the union so we can get a better paycheck as well as the laundry list of items that need improvement. The Teamsters make ups give us a pay check. We wouldn't get as good of a paycheck as we get if we weren't union. Many wouldn't have a job if we didn't have just cause. They would just fire people they didn't like. The work you do for ups is not as an important to getting a good paycheck as is organizing for a better contract. The grievance procedure was put in place as well as labor law to create labor peace because of previous militant struggles. It is better to have that than nothing. But direct action would be far superior if the members were class conscious & organized. Teamster Voice is a great source of information in the IBT. Much better than the propaganda put out by the jr administration. From studying history, from my personal experiences & from my critical analysis, comes my outlook on life. There has been a war on the working class. The 1% fired the first shots of the war in the early 70's. They have been taking ground ever since. The working class are starting to figure out that there has been a war on us. From the late 40's to the early 70's as productivity increased our wages kept up. Therefore we could buy the goods & services we were producing. That stoped in the early 70's. So therefore to keep the same lifestyle both adults in a nuclear family had to work. When that wasn't enough, credit cards were maxed. When that wasn't enough, equity was taken out of the home. Enouh is enough! It is time to draw a line in the sand. Our living standard & quality of life has declined to an unacceptable level. Corporations are going to have to accept less profits!
The company is what it is, we all should know that. How about the companysucks (noun) this companysucks that. companysucks are pathetic.

 

[satellitedriver]

ups does not give us a check out of the kindness of their heart. They use as few workers as possible & manage by stress. We made them give us 10,000 jobs & every thing else we won in 97. It was through struggle. I'm the hardest working man in the history of hard work, but I realize I get nothing for my hard work but more hard work. You think your paycheck is well deserved? Now thats Patheic! What have you done to deserve it? What have you done to build the union so we can get a better paycheck as well as the laundry list of items that need improvement. The Teamsters make ups give us a pay check. We wouldn't get as good of a paycheck as we get if we weren't union. Many wouldn't have a job if we didn't have just cause. They would just fire people they didn't like. The work you do for ups is not as an important to getting a good paycheck as is organizing for a better contract. The grievance procedure was put in place as well as labor law to create labor peace because of previous militant struggles. It is better to have that than nothing. But direct action would be far superior if the members were class conscious & organized. Teamster Voice is a great source of information in the IBT. Much better than the propaganda put out by the jr administration. From studying history, from my personal experiences & from my critical analysis, comes my outlook on life. There has been a war on the working class. The 1% fired the first shots of the war in the early 70's. They have been taking ground ever since. The working class are starting to figure out that there has been a war on us. From the late 40's to the early 70's as productivity increased our wages kept up. Therefore we could buy the goods & services we were producing. That stoped in the early 70's. So therefore to keep the same lifestyle both adults in a nuclear family had to work. When that wasn't enough, credit cards were maxed. When that wasn't enough, equity was taken out of the home. Enouh is enough! It is time to draw a line in the sand. Our living standard & quality of life has declined to an unacceptable level. Corporations are going to have to accept less profits!
The company is what it is, we all should know that. How about the companysucks (noun) this companysucks that. companysucks are pathetic.

Really?
Do you believe the blather you just spewed?

We made them give us 10,000 jobs & every thing else we won in 97.
Those 10,000 jobs never happened.
Much was lost on 97'.
I'm the hardest working man in the history of hard work,
Wow,
I missed the awards show. Did you get a trophy?
Corporations are going to have to accept less profits!
Great logic,
The less they make means they can pay you more.

I enjoyed reading your uninformed diatribe.

 

[Brother Joe]

Ignorance & stupidity, pathetic.
We struck & won 10,000 jobs in 97. After agreeing to give us those job they said they didn't have the work. liars! They agreed to it during a strike knowing that there might be a decrease in volume. So we had to file a class action lawsuit to get what we won on the line. We even got backpay! We should of went right back out though! We never got all the 10,000 jobs from the 2002 contract. You can blame jr for that one. As well as everything hes been giving up since. We won a 50 cent increase in the starting pay, an extra half hour guarantee for part timers, $1 catch up pay for part timers. We stopped ups from pulling out the pension. It was the labor victory of the decade!

Multiple employee of the month. Was only given an award once. Were you absent, slacking, sleeping?

Im not talking about less revenue for the company. I mean less profit for the company. That means more in our hands: wages, pension, ect... & less for the ceo, managers & ect....

I'm also the most honest man in the history of honesty & I can honestly say I did not enjoy your disingenuous company propaganda, floyd.

 

[brownIEman]

Ignorance & stupidity, pathetic.
We struck & won 10,000 jobs in 97. After agreeing to give us those job they said they didn't have the work. liars! They agreed to it during a strike knowing that there might be a decrease in volume. So we had to file a class action lawsuit to get what we won on the line. We even got backpay! We should of went right back out though! We never got all the 10,000 jobs from the 2002 contract. You can blame jr for that one. As well as everything hes been giving up since. We won a 50 cent increase in the starting pay, an extra half hour guarantee for part timers, $1 catch up pay for part timers. We stopped ups from pulling out the pension. It was the labor victory of the decade!

Multiple employee of the month. Was only given an award once. Were you absent, slacking, sleeping?

Im not talking about less revenue for the company. I mean less profit for the company. That means more in our hands: wages, pension, ect... & less for the ceo, managers & ect....

I'm also the most honest man in the history of honesty & I can honestly say I did not enjoy your disingenuous company propaganda, floyd.

The Strike in 97 was a major victory for Carey and the labor movement. Seems to me little was made of that victory. Which makes it all the more sad in my mind, since everything Carey won through the strike for UPS workers, he could have gotten without a strike and without costing drivers the huge difference between their UPS wages and the stike pay for those weeks. He was more interested in creating a PR victory for himself and labor, so I supose it could be said he had a larger agenda than just looking after UPS Teamsers.

 

[Inthegame]

The Strike in 97 was a major victory for Carey and the labor movement. Seems to me little was made of that victory. Which makes it all the more sad in my mind, since everything Carey won through the strike for UPS workers, he could have gotten without a strike and without costing drivers the huge difference between their UPS wages and the stike pay for those weeks. He was more interested in creating a PR victory for himself and labor, so I supose it could be said he had a larger agenda than just looking after UPS Teamsers.

What is sad in my mind is how deluded you are. The '97 agreement was a done deal (hand shake) as of Thursday July 31. No strike was called for Friday August 1 because of the temp agreement reached on Thursday. UPS came back on Friday with the restructured proposed final offer that caused the strike, knowing full well a public offering was in the works for the near future. This was obviously done to attempt to sweeten that IPO. The exact labor package that was accepted 2 1/2 weeks later was the one temporary agreed to on Thursday. UPS took that money out of EVERYONES pocket by playing chicken with the wrong guy. Foolish, foolish greedy move that costs billions in lost revenue still reverberating even today.
Do you have any idea of the reduced wage/benefit package that was offered compared to what was accepted. UPS union employees made their losses back ten fold in little time, and remarkably UPS continued to set record profits even as they flat out lied in those negotiations predicting doom if they accepted that contract. If you're actually in IE, you should be thanking Ron Carey as all employees wage structure is based on the union contract.

 

[rocket man]

What is APWA?

american pineapple worker asswipes

 

[brownIEman]

What is sad in my mind is how deluded you are. The '97 agreement was a done deal (hand shake) as of Thursday July 31. No strike was called for Friday August 1 because of the temp agreement reached on Thursday. UPS came back on Friday with the restructured proposed final offer that caused the strike, knowing full well a public offering was in the works for the near future. This was obviously done to attempt to sweeten that IPO. The exact labor package that was accepted 2 1/2 weeks later was the one temporary agreed to on Thursday. UPS took that money out of EVERYONES pocket by playing chicken with the wrong guy. Foolish, foolish greedy move that costs billions in lost revenue still reverberating even today.
Do you have any idea of the reduced wage/benefit package that was offered compared to what was accepted. UPS union employees made their losses back ten fold in little time, and remarkably UPS continued to set record profits even as they flat out lied in those negotiations predicting doom if they accepted that contract. If you're actually in IE, you should be thanking Ron Carey as all employees wage structure is based on the union contract.

The meeting on July 31 was between both sides and the Federal Mediators. At the end of that meeting, both sides agreed to return to the negotiating table on Aug. 1, and the IBT agreed to postpone the strike till Aug 4. There was no handshake agreement on a contract on July 31. Whoever gave you that information is mis-informed or making it up. They negotiated thoughout that weekend. Kelly claims on Sunday UPS offered a proposal that was about the same as the one that was eventually agreed on, including no longer asking to pull out of the multi-employer pension funds. Carey claimed later that was not the case. In either case, UPS also asked at that time to continue negotiating past the new deadline to resolve the issues without a strike. That request was refused.

You are somewhat deluded about your compensation ideas for non-bargaining unit employees. There was a time in the good old days when UPS management and certain other non-union employees had the same benefits package the IBT got, and got similar raises. That connection has long been severed, and UPS has saved money on that front. While I am not convinced of a direct causal connection, I suppose an argument could be made that Carey could be thanked in part for that.

As for the difference between the wage that was initially offered and what was accepted, that is really not the point when looking at the cost to teamsters of lost wages during the strike. The number to look at would be the difference between the wage that was won and what the IBT COULD have one had it agreed to continue negotiating without the strike. That we can only speculate on.

 

[PobreCarlos]

brownIEman;

InTheGame;

You might want to reference "Sprague v. CSPF" (SPRAGUE v. CENTRAL STATES SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST AREAS PENSION FUND, No. 01-1501. - US 7th Circuit | FindLaw). Bottom line is that the union - or at least the union trustees of (at least one of) their pension fund - "blinked"....in a manner that set the path for several of the Teamsters multi-employer pension trusts. Not sure I'd term that outcome a "major victory"...either for Carey or the labor movement in general. Seems to me that many "victories" along those lines could spell the death of the movement.

 

[Inthegame]

The meeting on July 31 was between both sides and the Federal Mediators. At the end of that meeting, both sides agreed to return to the negotiating table on Aug. 1, and the IBT agreed to postpone the strike till Aug 4. There was no handshake agreement on a contract on July 31. Whoever gave you that information is mis-informed or making it up. They negotiated thoughout that weekend. Kelly claims on Sunday UPS offered a proposal that was about the same as the one that was eventually agreed on, including no longer asking to pull out of the multi-employer pension funds. Carey claimed later that was not the case. In either case, UPS also asked at that time to continue negotiating past the new deadline to resolve the issues without a strike. That request was refused.

You are somewhat deluded about your compensation ideas for non-bargaining unit employees. There was a time in the good old days when UPS management and certain other non-union employees had the same benefits package the IBT got, and got similar raises. That connection has long been severed, and UPS has saved money on that front. While I am not convinced of a direct causal connection, I suppose an argument could be made that Carey could be thanked in part for that.

As for the difference between the wage that was initially offered and what was accepted, that is really not the point when looking at the cost to teamsters of lost wages during the strike. The number to look at would be the difference between the wage that was won and what the IBT COULD have one had it agreed to continue negotiating without the strike. That we can only speculate on.

Forgive me for the deluded comment. You sound like you know how this plays out, therefore you know of the many after hour meetings that take place. An extremely reliable source who was in the "inner circle" assured me hall and David Murray had a deal done Thursday night. Carey and Kelly came to the Friday session and things went south. If indeed Kelly offered that deal to Carey, it wasn't offered to the table. (I oftened wondered how did UPS get info about their offer in my mailbox by Tuesday August 6th if it wasn't printed beforehand?) Anyway the wage deal was far improved over what the company presented as their last, best and final offer. UPS proposed $.30 increases every other year (not first year) and a 7 year book. That's $.90 compared to the $2.10 (plus cola) received in the five year book plus additional monies far above the UPS original offer for benefits.
I agree the wage package for management today is different than the wages received by non-hourlies of years ago. I've been around a while and presumed you have also, and benefitted from IBT wages negotiated years ago.
I do not understand your last point as how Carey could have gotten without a strike what it took a strike to get. If UPS was willing to give what they eventually agreed to give, even after the first day of the strike, lots of losses could have been avoided. It took that strike to get the proper attention. The agreement reached was exactly what the Teamsters requested the last week of July. The Teamsters didn't increase demands at the end. The negotiations lasted long enough, the difference in those negotiations was Carey and his adherence to deadlines. Carey and Kelly had negotiated before at L804 and Kelly was well aware of Carey's intransigence.
I appreciate your informed thoughts. There were "good old days" when treatment for all employees was at a higher level. I have friends in upper management who are very disappointed by the new regime.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

well all im saying is ,,,if t.d.u doesnt stop production harassment at ups and get us a raise+extra weeks vacation this contract then im looking into finding another communist based leach of an organization to sponge off teamster members.i mean really,you cant get jim jr. or ken to listen to any of your proposals ....whats up with that?

 

[satellitedriver]

Long paragraphs of "informed" minutia about the 97' strike.
The health and welfare of the UPS union worker was not the basis, of "the strike".
All this "inside" scooby about the negotiations was just the smoke and mirrors of the Carey campaign fighting for control against Hoffa's machine, and the accusations being investigated by the Federal Govt.
The strike was planned a year in advance, as a counter measure.
Carey won the next election, then got canned when the facts came out.
Hoffa took control, and now here we are.
Yep,
In 1996, I knew a guy, that knew a guy and that guy warned me to save up some money because there was going to be a strike in 97'.
When it did pan out that way, I quit the teamsters.
I refuse to be a pawn to UPS, or the teamsters.
I simply work and bank my check.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Long paragraphs of "informed" minutia about the 97' strike.
The health and welfare of the UPS union worker was not the basis, of "the strike".
All this "inside" scooby about the negotiations was just the smoke and mirrors of the Carey campaign fighting for control against Hoffa's machine, and the accusations being investigated by the Federal Govt.
The strike was planned a year in advance, as a counter measure.
Carey won the next election, then got canned when the facts came out.
Hoffa took control, and now here we are.
Yep,
In 1996, I knew a guy, that knew a guy and that guy warned me to save up some money because there was going to be a strike in 97'.
When it did pan out that way, I quit the teamsters.
I refuse to be a pawn to UPS, or the teamsters.
I simply work and bank my check.

how much did you save for those ? days off? you mean you let a bank hold your money?

 

[Inthegame]

Long paragraphs of "informed" minutia about the 97' strike.
The health and welfare of the UPS union worker was not the basis, of "the strike".
All this "inside" scooby about the negotiations was just the smoke and mirrors of the Carey campaign fighting for control against Hoffa's machine, and the accusations being investigated by the Federal Govt.
The strike was planned a year in advance, as a counter measure.
Carey won the next election, then got canned when the facts came out.
Hoffa took control, and now here we are.
Yep,
In 1996, I knew a guy, that knew a guy and that guy warned me to save up some money because there was going to be a strike in 97'.
When it did pan out that way, I quit the teamsters.
I refuse to be a pawn to UPS, or the teamsters.
I simply work and bank my check.

So you deride my post as "informed" minutia and give your version of events as a counter argument that's based completely on hearsay,"I knew a guy that knew a guy..." Must be very thin air you breathe. Thanks for the normal sized font.
One more question, what excuse would you have used to quit the Teamsters if they accepted the insufficient offer UPS proposed in '97? Nevermind, I already know.

 

[satellitedriver]

So you deride my post as "informed" minutia and give your version of events as a counter argument that's based completely on hearsay,"I knew a guy that knew a guy..." Must be very thin air you breathe. Thanks for the normal sized font.
One more question, what excuse would you have used to quit the Teamsters if they accepted the insufficient offer UPS proposed in '97? Nevermind, I already know.

I still have the UPS offer in my files.

The "offer" that was denied, by the teamsters, to buyout of the failing Central States Pension Fund would have secured the future UPS retiree's a stable paycheck, at the cost of 560 million.
20 and out, and, 25 and out guaranteed at any age.
Full health insurance provided for free, to the retiree.
Yep, da teamsters showed them and went on strike.

Central States Pension went down the tubes.
25 and out was still in effect, but the retiree had to deduct 6% for every year under the age of 65.
Do the math, and subtract those 6% yearly reductions.
If one retired before the age of 57, one was banned from getting health insurance.

Hat in hand, da teamsters, accepted a contract that cost UPS 6 billion, instead of 560 million, to save the UPSER's in Central States.

So you deride my post as "informed" minutia and give your version of events as a counter argument that's based completely on hearsay,"I knew a guy that knew a guy..." Must be very thin air you breathe. Thanks for the normal sized font.
The "I knew a guy that knew a guy" comment was sarcasm, but true.
Since you know so much, answer me this.
(I know the answer).
What percentage of UPS teamsters voted to give the negotiation committee the unilateral right to call a strike?
Why was the number so small?
(I know that answer, also)
One more question, what excuse would you have used to quit the Teamsters if they accepted the insufficient offer UPS proposed in '97? Nevermind, I already know.
No excuse needed.
I was lied to.
No way in hell will I forget, or forgive.

 

[Inthegame]

No way in hell will I forget, or forgive or understand.

Here we go, back to the big font...You might not forgive but you have definitely forgotten. If you indeed still have the offer in your files, reread it. Or maybe your RTW glasses are fogged. There was no offer to buy out just CS in '97. The offer was to replace all Pension plans not just CS. Not sure what the point of comparing withdrawal liability dollars as UPS didn't seem too "stretched" to afford the 2007 number. But on to your points,
No 20 and out was offered although 20 was the floor for "early outs" which was reduced by age. The 25 and out was also reduced by age. Retiree insurance was not free, in fact it matched the CS plan of $50 per month at the time. The flaw in your position is you're comparing recent reductions in CS plan with offers made in 1997. Not many at the time had the crystal ball. UPS health plans that cover active management today have monthly co-premiums not in place in 1997. Do you in your wildest dreams think employees would be immune from those costs if the '97 UPS offer was accepted and H&W was offered to union employees? Things have changed my friend, were you space travelling? Ask a retired UPS manager about the supplemental plan evaporation. Since '97 H&W costs have risen into low earth orbit. (that was for your benefit)
I don't know the total number of Teamsters that showed up at local union strike authorization votes. I know in our local it was nearly unanimous. The number is small because most people are lazy and would rather watch "My Favorite Martian" than secure their future. I do know once the strike was called 99.5% of Teamsters stayed out 17 days without crossing a picket line. You're the one in the small minority. More numbers... the UPS last best and final in '97 had wage offers totaling $1.50 plus two bonus years. The Teamsters secured you (a freeloader) $3.10 increases in wages. Do you own math on that. Base wages are multiplying benefits that grow at a exponential rate. You are thousands ahead every year because of that strike and because of the TEAMSTERS.

 

[satellitedriver]

You are thousands ahead every year because of that strike and because of the TEAMSTERS.

Finally we are in agreement.
Since 97', I have not had to pay union dues. That has saved me roughly $10,000. +.
The thing is, I never kept a dime of it.
I immediately started giving it to charities and have increased my donations with every raise I have been given.
The teamsters have never "secured" anything for me.

 

[Brother Joe]

well all im saying is ,,,if t.d.u doesnt stop production harassment at ups and get us a raise+extra weeks vacation this contract then im looking into finding another communist based leach of an organization to sponge off teamster members.i mean really,you cant get jim jr. or ken to listen to any of your proposals ....whats up with that?

Red baiting, little boy blue, needed the money. How much is ups or jr paying you to be a suck or are you doing it for free?

 

[Brother Joe]

The "offer" that was denied, by the teamsters, to buyout of the failing Central States Pension Fund would have secured the future UPS retiree's a stable paycheck, at the cost of 560 million.
20 and out, and, 25 and out guaranteed at any age.
Full health insurance provided for free, to the retiree.
Yep, da teamsters showed them and went on strike.

Central States Pension went down the tubes.
25 and out was still in effect, but the retiree had to deduct 6% for every year under the age of 65.
Do the math, and subtract those 6% yearly reductions.
If one retired before the age of 57, one was banned from getting health insurance.

Hat in hand, da teamsters, accepted a contract that cost UPS 6 billion, instead of 560 million, to save the UPSER's in Central States.

In 97 we won 10,000 fulltime jobs, 50 cent increase in the starting pay, an xtra half hour guarantee for part timers & stopped ups from pulling out of the pension among other gains. Since then no increase in starting pay, no new full time jobs in the current national, allowing ups to pull out of central states among other losses. jr & hall let ups pull out of the central for a one time payment that went up in smoke. ups did that cause it would be cheaper in the long run. gegare lied about not knowing about it. Now the ups pension plan pays less than any Teamster pension plan for members that work at ups. We need to get organized for a better contract! Catch up pay for part timers, increased contributions in the pension for full timers & no changes to our insurance for the worse!

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Red baiting, little boy blue, needed the money. How much is ups or jr paying you to be a suck or are you doing it for free?

jr sucks,tdu sucks and you suck.now go get your shine box .