Teamsters bosses resist calls to reopen UPS contract after 'no' vote

[zubenelgenubi]

That ain't going to happen. I think it would be easier for UPS Teamsters to go independent.

You mean like split off from the rest of the IBT? I wonder what the process for that would be. I also wonder if it would prevent the IBT from siphoning money from our compensation packages to support pensioners who never worked for UPS. If we're going to have a pension, a multi-employer plan is certainly safer, but when the IBT negotiates higher pension contributions increases than gwi, that says something about their motivations.

 

[Brown echo]

• THEY HAVE NEGOTIATED GREAT PAY AND BENEFITS FOR A DUMB LABOR BLUE COLLAR JOB THAT YOU DONT EVEN NEED A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA TO MAKE 6 FIGURES

 

[BigUnionGuy]

You mean like split off from the rest of the IBT? I wonder what the process for that would be. I also wonder if it would prevent the IBT from siphoning money from our compensation packages to support pensioners who never worked for UPS. If we're going to have a pension, a multi-employer plan is certainly safer, but when the IBT negotiates higher pension contributions increases than gwi, that says something about their motivations.

And just like that....


The average intelligence of a UPS Teamster member, is revealed.

 

[Wally]

And just like that....


The average intelligence of a UPS Teamster member, is revealed.

So never question the motives of our leadership?

 

[Bubblehead]

And just like that....


The average intelligence of a UPS Teamster member, is revealed.

I suppose that, in turn, makes him "electable"???

What I don't get and where you lose me at times Bug, is that you claim to participate here on BC in order to educate and share your vast self proclaimed knowledge and experience....

....but more often than not you choose to ridicule and belittle instead, as you have again in this instance???

There are many locals (like mine) where there are very few places to turn for knowledge and support, and with this in mind, what qualifies a UPS Teamster as "average", and who's fault is that???




~Bbbl~™

 

[hellfire]

Used to be a percussionist, now I just say drummer. What about yourself?

I’ve always been told you’re a master of the skin flute

 

[zubenelgenubi]

And just like that....


The average intelligence of a UPS Teamster member, is revealed.

I'm sorry, do you think you are actually convincing anyone...

With your argument style?

If I'm wrong, say so, and point me in the direction of where I can find accurate information. I have no problem admitting if I'm wrong. Since you couldn't do a simple thing, like explain how I'm wrong, I will just assume that I am not. And anyone reading along will know which of us is bringing down those intelligence averages you mentioned.

Nevermind, I just realized which post you were quoting. I thought you were talking about the 50% 2/3 rule. I'm not wrong about the increases, math checks out. $5 is more than $4.15.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I suppose that, in turn, makes him "electable"???

What I don't get and where you lose me at times Bug, is that you claim to participate here on BC in order to educate and share your vast self proclaimed knowledge and experience....

....but more often than not you choose to ridicule and belittle instead, as you have again in this instance???

There are many locals (like mine) where there are very few places to turn for knowledge and support, and with this in mind, what qualifies a UPS Teamster as "average", and who's fault is that???




~Bbbl~™

I realize I've only been active here a short time, by comparison, so I assume BUG has amassed some credibility over the years. In my experience, however, he has done absolutely nothing to advance any conversation he's involved himself in. And the strange, halting writing style? The abnormal use of commas, elipses and blank lines between writing. Makes me think of someone in the process of having a stroke. If his attitude is any indication of a majority of hard core union members, it's no wonder the union is in the dismal state it is in. I take nothing he says with any sincerity at all, because he gives me no reason to.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

What I don't get and where you lose me at times Bug, is that you claim to participate here on BC in order to educate and share your vast self proclaimed knowledge and experience....

How much more "gnashing of the teeth" are we going to see.

People didn't vote and the IBT has exercised provisions of the IBT constitution.

End of story.


I think it's funny, how people were so sucked in by UPS's statement that they

anticipated going back to the table after the vote count.

Hate to tell everyone.... UPS isn't stupid.


"All employers negotiating agreements with multi-union, multi‐state, area, multi‐area
or national conferences, trade divisions or committees established hereunder, or with subordinate bodies, shall be provided with a copy of this Article at the time negotiations are started so they will have notice of the approval necessary for a binding agreement."


Being that UPS was provided a copy of the IBT Constitution prior to commencing

negotiations, don't you think they were aware of the constitutional requirements ?


Maybe.. just maybe.. they were trying to look like the "good guy" by feigning

confusion, and trying to see what the IBT would do.... to try and embarrass

the IBT by using the constitution against us ?


On another note;


People keep bring up the 2013 contract vote, and how the IBT didn't impose

the 50% 2/3 rule on the supplements that were voted down.


Again.... the IBT constitution.


"In the event such a special rider or supplement is not approved by the affected members, and the master agreement is ratified, the supplemental negotiating committee shall meet with the master negotiating committee to identify the issues which resulted in the rejection of the special rider or supplement. The master negotiating committee shall assist the supplemental negotiating committee when bargaining resumes with the employer in an effort to resolve the issues."


https://teamster.filecamp.com/0/teamster/binary/25np-re7bjk5k.pdf


In 2013, the Master was ratified and the IBT followed the constitution by going back

and attempted to resolve the issues. After the required attempt(s) to resolve the

local issues.... it was determined, the 3 remaining supplements were just voting no

trying to change the Master language regarding the TeamCare issue.

....but more often than not you choose to ridicule and belittle instead, as you have again in this instance?

I guess, I'm the only one that knows these types of things.


After all....

My PayPal account hasn't seen a dime, from all the knowledge I dispense.





-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

How much more "gnashing of the teeth" are we going to see.

A bunch is my hunch?

After all, the 3,000 member Vote No Facebook group grew to over 22,000 members over the last "gnashing of teeth" 5 year period.

....and it nearly cost Hoffa and his disciples the last General Election.

What do you predict is going to happen this time???

I think it's funny, how people were so sucked in by UPS's statement that they anticipated going back to the table after the vote count.

Pretty sure it was Denis T who said it first?

Hate to tell everyone.... UPS isn't stupid.

"All employers negotiating agreements with multi-union, multi‐state, area, multi‐area
or national conferences, trade divisions or committees established hereunder, or with subordinate bodies, shall be provided with a copy of this Article at the time negotiations are started so they will have notice of the approval necessary for a binding agreement."

Being that UPS was provided a copy of the IBT Constitution prior to commencing negotiations, don't you think they were aware of the constitutional requirements ?

Is there a chance that UPS, because "they aren't stupid", considered this little caveat in their provided copy?

~Section 6. The General Executive Board is empowered to amend, delete, or add to this Article if at any time it believes such action will be in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies.~

In 2013, the Master was ratified and the IBT followed the constitution by going back and attempted to resolve the issues.

So....why aren't they "going back" now, like they did in 2013 in order to "follow the Constitution" in regards to the failed Supplements?

I guess, I'm the only one that knows these types of things.
After all....My PayPal account hasn't seen a dime, from all the knowledge I dispense.

It would seem that there is not much of a market for yesterday's ice water or a badly outdated situational comedy.



~Bbbl~™

 

[Frankie's Friend]

How much more "gnashing of the teeth" are we going to see.

People didn't vote and the IBT has exercised provisions of the IBT constitution.

End of story.


I think it's funny, how people were so sucked in by UPS's statement that they

anticipated going back to the table after the vote count.

Hate to tell everyone.... UPS isn't stupid.


"All employers negotiating agreements with multi-union, multi‐state, area, multi‐area
or national conferences, trade divisions or committees established hereunder, or with subordinate bodies, shall be provided with a copy of this Article at the time negotiations are started so they will have notice of the approval necessary for a binding agreement."


Being that UPS was provided a copy of the IBT Constitution prior to commencing

negotiations, don't you think they were aware of the constitutional requirements ?


Maybe.. just maybe.. they were trying to look like the "good guy" by feigning

confusion, and trying to see what the IBT would do.... to try and embarrass

the IBT by using the constitution against us ?


On another note;


People keep bring up the 2013 contract vote, and how the IBT didn't impose

the 50% 2/3 rule on the supplements that were voted down.


Again.... the IBT constitution.


"In the event such a special rider or supplement is not approved by the affected members, and the master agreement is ratified, the supplemental negotiating committee shall meet with the master negotiating committee to identify the issues which resulted in the rejection of the special rider or supplement. The master negotiating committee shall assist the supplemental negotiating committee when bargaining resumes with the employer in an effort to resolve the issues."


https://teamster.filecamp.com/0/teamster/binary/25np-re7bjk5k.pdf


In 2013, the Master was ratified and the IBT followed the constitution by going back

and attempted to resolve the issues. After the required attempt(s) to resolve the

local issues.... it was determined, the 3 remaining supplements were just voting no

trying to change the Master language regarding the TeamCare issue.





I guess, I'm the only one that knows these types of things.


After all....

My PayPal account hasn't seen a dime, from all the knowledge I dispense.





-Bug-

The question that always brings crickets is:
Why did the ibt leadership allow two whole regions to vote on our proposed healthcare change and they weren't subject to it themselves?

Question #2:
Did they actually trade another year of full time progression for getting the healthcare money?

If so, it's all about the money and not about the membership.

In my opinion, the negotiating committee for the ups/ibt cba should only be comprised of people who have worked at ups.

The rest of the company sympathizers can stay home...
up to and including our BA/Pres.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

How much more "gnashing of the teeth" are we going to see.

People didn't vote and the IBT has exercised provisions of the IBT constitution.

End of story.


I think it's funny, how people were so sucked in by UPS's statement that they

anticipated going back to the table after the vote count.

Hate to tell everyone.... UPS isn't stupid.


"All employers negotiating agreements with multi-union, multi‐state, area, multi‐area
or national conferences, trade divisions or committees established hereunder, or with subordinate bodies, shall be provided with a copy of this Article at the time negotiations are started so they will have notice of the approval necessary for a binding agreement."


Being that UPS was provided a copy of the IBT Constitution prior to commencing

negotiations, don't you think they were aware of the constitutional requirements ?


Maybe.. just maybe.. they were trying to look like the "good guy" by feigning

confusion, and trying to see what the IBT would do.... to try and embarrass

the IBT by using the constitution against us ?


On another note;


People keep bring up the 2013 contract vote, and how the IBT didn't impose

the 50% 2/3 rule on the supplements that were voted down.


Again.... the IBT constitution.


"In the event such a special rider or supplement is not approved by the affected members, and the master agreement is ratified, the supplemental negotiating committee shall meet with the master negotiating committee to identify the issues which resulted in the rejection of the special rider or supplement. The master negotiating committee shall assist the supplemental negotiating committee when bargaining resumes with the employer in an effort to resolve the issues."


https://teamster.filecamp.com/0/teamster/binary/25np-re7bjk5k.pdf


In 2013, the Master was ratified and the IBT followed the constitution by going back

and attempted to resolve the issues. After the required attempt(s) to resolve the

local issues.... it was determined, the 3 remaining supplements were just voting no

trying to change the Master language regarding the TeamCare issue.





I guess, I'm the only one that knows these types of things.


After all....

My PayPal account hasn't seen a dime, from all the knowledge I dispense.





-Bug-

The Ohio Rider was voted down twice but no effort was made to address issues the membership wanted changed in it and this time it wasnt even put up for a vote.

This is all a farce. The strength of the union is only as good as the effort from the officials to honestly address (not defer) the membership's issues.

I guess non ups people know what's best for ups people.

Leadership's pay should be performance based and polled yearly. That would be a good start.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

A bunch is my hunch?

After all, the 3,000 member Vote No Facebook group grew to over 22,000 members over the last "gnashing of teeth" 5 year period.

I wouldn't characterize that Facebook page, as any sort of barometer.

It seems to be comprised of low information, retiree, management, and

non-UPS people who believes what TDU tells them.

What do you predict is going to happen this time ?

Way too early to speculate.

It would seem that there is not much of a market for yesterday's ice water or a badly outdated situational comedy.

Ah....

@Bubblehead makes a backhanded funny.

Touche.



-Bug-

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Why did the ibt leadership allow two whole regions to vote on our proposed healthcare change and they weren't subject to it themselves?

I ask myself that.

Did they actually trade another year of full time progression for getting the healthcare money?

The company wanted out of the Healthcare business and they got an additional

year on the progression, so I don't understand what the trade would be ?

In my opinion, the negotiating committee for the ups/ibt cba should only be comprised of people who have worked at ups.

Well that will never happen.

That's like saying Local Union officials aren't qualified to re-negotiate a contract

with Bob's floral shop, because none of them ever worked there.


Besides.... UPS people don't vote, let alone, run for Local office.

Leadership's pay should be performance based and polled yearly. That would be a good start.

The Union has never allowed UPS to do it.... so why would the members be entitled to

exact that type of accountability on elected officials ?

I guess non ups people know what's best for ups people.

The rest of the company sympathizers can stay home... up to and including our BA/Pres.

You really don't like Brian.... do you ?



-Bug-

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I ask myself that.




The company wanted out of the Healthcare business and they got an additional

year on the progression, so I don't understand what the trade would be ?




Well that will never happen.

That's like saying Local Union officials aren't qualified to re-negotiate a contract

with Bob's floral shop, because none of them ever worked there.


Besides.... UPS people don't vote, let alone, run for Local office.




The Union has never allowed UPS to do it.... so why would the members be entitled to

exact that type of accountability on elected officials ?






You really don't like Brian.... do you ?



-Bug-

Truthfully, some people earn their contempt.

I'm not alone in this belief.

Btw: ups people in my area and local vote. We were over the 50% margin.

About 45% of the eligible membership voted in the last local election.
The incumbent president "won" by 1 vote... against a slate thrown together in 90 days. His competition was never a steward, never an officer, but an honest person.

Ups members make up less than 1/4 of the local membership. But we vote. We are "real" teamsters.

Does this tell you something?


There's many documented facts to be presented on this subject.
You weren't born under a rock.

*I just reread your whole post.
"Dont like Brian" who?
Nice try.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I wouldn't characterize that Facebook page, as any sort of barometer.

It seems to be comprised of low information, retiree, management, and

non-UPS people who believes what TDU tells them.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

*I just reread your whole post.
"Dont like Brian" who? Nice try.

I read all of your posts.

The Ohio Rider was voted down twice

We were over the 50% margin.
Ups members make up less than 1/4 of the local membership.

I guess non ups people know what's best for ups people.

up to and including our BA/Pres.

It's simple extrapolation.

I don't need to be Hansel and Gretel, to follow the trail of bread crumbs.


@Sickofit

Don't worry, I'm not trying to "out you".


I'm always interested in what you have to say.

Even though I can read through all the anger.... I like the perspective of your posts.



-Bug-

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I read all of your posts.











It's simple extrapolation.

I don't need to be Hansel and Gretel, to follow the trail of bread crumbs.


@Sickofit

Don't worry, I'm not trying to "out you".


I'm always interested in what you have to say.

Even though I can read through all the anger.... I like the perspective of your posts.



-Bug-

This is an oxymoron.
"Goat man" follows me (as well as others).
Do you have goats?

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Btw @BigUnionGuy ,
Anger comes with passion.
Oppression brings anger and I'm not afraid to own it.
I believe in truthfulness and being real, letting your yes be yes and your no be no. I'll tell you to your face what I say when I'm not in your presence.

If you knew me you would agree.

That's why I'm sick of some things and I'm not afraid to stand up and be "real" about crooked issues.

Let the chips fall where they may but for sure, I'm not a puppet like some other folks I've come to know.

 

[Blackstream]

I guess my main question is this. Has the union ever presented a non-final offer to the membership to vote on that we know of for sure? As in, we know it was non-final because either it was stated to be so, or because negotiations resumed after the result of the vote? I see a clause in the constitution that says it can happen, but I have no idea if it has ever happened (at least for UPS). I had thought this offer was non-final, but that clearly is not the case, so now I'm wondering if there has ever been precedent for a master contract vote to be non-final.

During negotiations, the Local Union Executive Board may order a secret ballot vote to be taken to determine whether the affected members authorize a strike or to obtain the members’ views on an employer proposal. If such interim votes are conducted before the Executive Board has determined that the employer has made a final offer, a majority of the members voting shall determine the question voted upon.