That defines how they can fire you but are they allowed to fire you and not pay unemployment? If they target older, better paid employees can they be sued for age discrimination? And if not, is it worth the bad PR to them to do so? Will it result in paying more up front to attract newhires who are reluctant to work for a company that has a reputation of dumping people they deem too expensive to keep?
The Big News
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
LTFedExer
Well-Known Member
In 11+ years I have NEVER seen anyone get fired that didn't deserve it. No made up stuff. We're talking no call/no show, falsification, accidents, etc. 2 couriers had >10 years and the rest were <5 years. Though that doesn't mean it hasn't or won't happen.
SmithBarney
Well-Known Member
So who is using the new PPAD2? looks remarkably similar to the gizmo(I don't know what they call it) that Ground uses...
They just rolled out ours.. more clues to a merger? GPS, and a 3mp camera(which you can't use...yet)
They just rolled out ours.. more clues to a merger? GPS, and a 3mp camera(which you can't use...yet)
Less hours means less money put into our portable pension plan as well as a smaller 401k match. It would be shocking if they don't make Express a strictly overnight service. And when customers have to set up a Ground pickup for their 2 day pkg they're going to see that Ground does regional overnight too. So many will deal with Ground as much as possible just to avoid setting up 2 different pickups. Express should shrink quite a bit. Hope this is just a wild rumor.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Yeah, but they can't simply throw all the money into one big figurative pot to be doled out as desired while operating as separate opcos under the parent company. Not as a publicly traded company. The SEC would rip them a new one for that kind of stuff. I mean, they can do what they want with the money, but they have certain laws/guidelines/regulations that dictate how it must be done in regards to the accounting aspect of it. It has to be visible. To this point, there's nothing in their financials over the last 4 fiscal years that even suggest that this has been going on.
I don't know the specifics of each state's rules for unemployment. I suspect some are more generous than others. As snackdad mentioned, it's not hard to legitmately fire someone. Remember that package that you forgot to deliver to that customer who had 10 other pkgs that you delivered at 1026? Remember how you went back at 1035 and gave it to them and told them not to worry about signing for that one because you'd fix it on your end and that was cool with them because they like you and are easygoing anyhow? And remember how when you got back at the end of the day, you manually entered the POD for that pkg and the time you entered was 1026?
There's your falsification, an offense that can get you booted and will probably keep you from collecting benefits. I've yet to meet anyone in the company who hasn't falsified something. Some do it as an absolute last resort while some, sadly, rely on it. If someone were to go fishing for something like that, he's gonna find it.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
How many of those lawsuits actually bear fruit? I'd say close to zero. You'd be amazed at how many people think they've been wrongfully terminated. Of the few who have indeed been wrongly terminated in the legal sense, proving it is something else entirely.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
I've seen one guy fired who probably deserved it, but the manager (a pure idiot) blew the process. Badly. The courier spent a couple hundred on a lawyer who wrote a letter and probably made a phone call, too. The gist of the lawyer's lawyer was "your corporate policy is that these steps must be followed in this order and you didn't even come close." Legal had the guy reinstated before his first GFT.
So the profit is for the parent company, the stock is for the parent company, but the revenue generated by a division must stay in that division? That doesn't add up.So FedEx decides to get rid of 5000 topped out couriers. They're going to dig up dirt on 5000 people? Or go through the files of 70,000 until they find something on 5000 of them? Seriously? How long until crazed couriers start beating on managers? What you are suggesting opens up too many cans of worms. FedEx would be known far and wide as the company that claims to care about it's employees while doing everything possible to get rid if older, better paid employees. And that it takes a long time to get to better pay. Yeah, let's go with that. The trouble is some of you guys are enamored with authority and think these guys have great power over you. We have to comply with reasonable demands but they don't own us and there are consequences for abuse. Maybe you can't get a legal remedy but if they hurt too many people it'll come back on them eventually.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
The political scuttlebutt coming out of the FAA Reauthorization negotiations indicate that Sen. Reid (D) of Nevada is dropping his opposition to the House version of the Bill, which included ending/scaling back of the rural airport subsidies, along with the reversion back to the old definition of a majority vote in a union certification election.
What this means is that a potential (will never happen now within FedEx) vote to certify a union for a particular craft/trade would require a majority of all POTENTIAL voters, not just a majority of those who actually cast ballots. This was the definition prior to the decision of the NLB last year to change the definition of what constitutes a majority for a certification election. There is also virtually no chance of FedEx now being pulled from the RLA and placed under the NLRB when it comes to unionization requirements (local as opposed to national level elections).
Part of the reason for Express remaining under the RLA is due to the ratio of employees directly in contact with aircraft. FedEx barely meets one of the current criteria for RLA classification by maintaining a certaiin threshold of its employees which are in trades directly related to aircraft operations.
However, there is still a strong incentive to shrink the size of DGO (to further increase the percentage of Express employees in direct contact with aircraft) to protect against any change in that particular criterion.
Should Sen. Reid drop all opposition to the House version of the bill, it looks like Express will have dodged yet another bullet. The rationale for Reid's dropping opposition is the large number of furloughed contract workers in construction projects which are affected by there not being legislation to fund their activity, along with having just over 4,000 FAA employees (which a large percentage are union members) being out of work. It is yet another case of saving those who are unionized (many of the construction jobs at airports are done by union workers) and letting those who are not unionized (Express employees) fend for themselves.
Given the current deal making going on right now, it looks HIGHLY unlikely that the Congress will take any action that would assist Express employees before the next election cycle. The Democrats are too busy trying to protect their base and aren't looking to expend any political capital to assist Express employees. Fred S spent well in excess of $30 million in direct lobbying efforts trying to maintain the RLA classification, and when combined with the expense of providing the perks of on call air transportation for Members of Congress, has conservatively spend in excess of $100 million over the past 2 years to keep his special exemption for Express.
Since Congress is looking to recess for a late summer break in the near future, it will be shortly known if the FAA Reauthorization will go through the Senate with the House version, or if a game of brinksmanship will be played with that legislation too. Given the fact that a few thousand people are out of work due to there not being legislation (and many of those workers are union), it looks like Express employees are going to be tossed under the bus yet again by Congress to save their current union supporters.
What this means is that a potential (will never happen now within FedEx) vote to certify a union for a particular craft/trade would require a majority of all POTENTIAL voters, not just a majority of those who actually cast ballots. This was the definition prior to the decision of the NLB last year to change the definition of what constitutes a majority for a certification election. There is also virtually no chance of FedEx now being pulled from the RLA and placed under the NLRB when it comes to unionization requirements (local as opposed to national level elections).
Part of the reason for Express remaining under the RLA is due to the ratio of employees directly in contact with aircraft. FedEx barely meets one of the current criteria for RLA classification by maintaining a certaiin threshold of its employees which are in trades directly related to aircraft operations.
However, there is still a strong incentive to shrink the size of DGO (to further increase the percentage of Express employees in direct contact with aircraft) to protect against any change in that particular criterion.
Should Sen. Reid drop all opposition to the House version of the bill, it looks like Express will have dodged yet another bullet. The rationale for Reid's dropping opposition is the large number of furloughed contract workers in construction projects which are affected by there not being legislation to fund their activity, along with having just over 4,000 FAA employees (which a large percentage are union members) being out of work. It is yet another case of saving those who are unionized (many of the construction jobs at airports are done by union workers) and letting those who are not unionized (Express employees) fend for themselves.
Given the current deal making going on right now, it looks HIGHLY unlikely that the Congress will take any action that would assist Express employees before the next election cycle. The Democrats are too busy trying to protect their base and aren't looking to expend any political capital to assist Express employees. Fred S spent well in excess of $30 million in direct lobbying efforts trying to maintain the RLA classification, and when combined with the expense of providing the perks of on call air transportation for Members of Congress, has conservatively spend in excess of $100 million over the past 2 years to keep his special exemption for Express.
Since Congress is looking to recess for a late summer break in the near future, it will be shortly known if the FAA Reauthorization will go through the Senate with the House version, or if a game of brinksmanship will be played with that legislation too. Given the fact that a few thousand people are out of work due to there not being legislation (and many of those workers are union), it looks like Express employees are going to be tossed under the bus yet again by Congress to save their current union supporters.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
As I pointed out before, there were two separate but related issues driving Express reorganization: desire to keep out a union and a desire to restore corporate profitability in the current (and believed new normal) economic climate.
With the House version of the Reauthorization, Express is moved back to its previous status quo that existed before this latest go around started in 2009 - RLA status firmly in place with a union certification vote requiring BOTH a national level majority as determined by a majority of all ELIGIBLE to vote, not just a majority of those actually choosing to vote. Given the dispersed nature of DGO, this makes it an impossible task to succesfully organize a unionization effort, thus the reason why the Teamsters walked away this past January even with the change in definition of a majority. With the Republicans taking the House in the 2010 election, it was an uphill battle. The NLB's administrative ruling regarding definition of a majority vote was just a small crack in the armor of Express. That crack is going to be mended in a few days it seems.
The issue of the FAA bill will be decided most likely by the end of the week, at the latest by mid-August.
Once the bill is signed, it will actually slow down the impetus for a rapid change in Express structure. Remember, I stated that if, IF, the reauthorization went through and FedEx somehow lost its RLA status, then Express would move rapidly to alter its business structure. Since the House version looks to be the version that will be passed, Express won't feel itself pressured to move nearly as rapidly to reorganize. Reorganization will be driven purely by financial concerns and not any concern to prevent unionization (in the short term anyway).
The "major overhaul" is already been in the planning stages for over two years, so it isn't something hastily cooked up.
http://ir.fedex.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=388559
This is from a web page done by FedEx itself when this whole issue first started. Here's the last paragraph from the linked page (referenced the purchase of B777 cargo aircraft). Italics and underlining my emphasis:
Impact of RLA status on B-777 purchases at FedEx Express
In our latest B-777 contract with Boeing, a provision was included that cancels 15 orders if FedEx Express or any of its employees is removed from the jurisdiction of the RLA. This clause does not affect the first 15 B-777s we have on order, only the last 15 aircraft currently on order. This provision was included in the contract as a prudent precaution against a possible major change in the circumstances of our business. It is a reasonable contingency to put in place because a change of that magnitude could affect the structure of our network or the fundamentals of our business model. At this time, we still plan to complete the purchases of all 30 B-777s.
Anyone reading the above paragraph with a bit of inductive reasoning can see that Express was making plans to alter its business model with the threat of unionization. It is also easy to see that Express saw the threat of unionization as REAL if it lost its RLA status - why else would Fred S engage in this sort of political extortion? Express KNEW that if it lost its RLA status, that unionization of a significant number of DGO locations would occur almost immediately. This is the company which you seem to think "cares" about you as an individual. Express was and is willing to engage in political extortion to protect its business classification (RLA) and will sell each and every wage (along with a few salaried employees) down the river if that is needed to protect itself.
Express has been moving to secure its status for sometime now. The reason why you haven't heard any monthly status reports in your station meeting (concerning the restructuring of Express) is because Express knows that if they start announcing obvious indications that changes are coming, that the rank and file may just decide to sign union cards in anticipation. Express lets you know what it wants you to know, when express wants you to know it. Right now, they don't want the rank and file to know anything.
Before I got out, most of the opposition to signing union cards from the Couriers was the fact that they were being asked to sign a Teamsters union card. The Teamsters don't have a sterling reputation out there. Many, MANY stated that if there was another union that could represent them they'd sign a union card for that union. It was a choice between Fred S and James Hoffa, most wanted "Choice C" in order to sign a union card and say no to what Fred was offering. The problem is that there isn't really another union out there that organizes on a national level (and with the resources to fight Express) which could pull off a union drive. Remember, the IBT is not affiliated with the AFL-CIO right now, they are affiliated with the CTW organization - which has a very leftist political orientation. By comparison the AFL-CIO is considered more centrist or left of center politically.
But this points to the root of the issue. There are approximately 1.5 million members of the IBT at this time. One must assume at least half are satisified with the orientation of the IBT. Is the IBT going to change its political alliances - thus potentially pissing off 750,000 of its members - in order to secure an additional 30 to 50 thousand Express employees? Don't think so. Bird in hand.... "Mr FedEx" stated in another string that the teamsters essentially need to step up to the plate to organize Expresss - it is the other way around, Express employees need to "come to the Teamsters" in order to get them to expend any effort on behalf of the Express employees. A Mexican standoff defined...
Change is coming. Exactly what that change will be for those left at Express is difficult to precisely tell. You may just be able to hold out for a couple more years and leave as the brunt of the changes are being implemented, you may end up waiting too long and being turned into roadkill by Fred S.
When Express pulls the trigger, it will unfold over the course of a few months and not years. There haven't been reports of Ground terminals being installed with caster decking coming in, but there have been indications that FedEx engineering have already drawn up proposals based on existing floor plans to rapidly put out contracts for installation. This would take a couple of months at most once the decision is made. The rerouting of non-overnight freight would merely require Express to take the volume off the afternoon flights once they arrived at the ramps, immediately load it onto CTV's, then move the containers to the Ground terminals which would have caster decking installed in a small - yet large enough area - to permit unloading of the contents and staging of empty cans. The next day/afternoon, RTD's would go to the Ground terminals and load empty cans into their trailers in accordance with the loadplan of the station they were hauling to. They'd drive to the stations with enough empty cans to enable stations to perform their reload operation with cans meeting their load plan for their respective ramp. A simple exercise in logistic planning.
The issue is whether Ground is ready to accept the Express volume. Two years ago, Express was in a bind, Ground wasn't ready, was facing mounting litigation concerning its IC model and fears were that Ground could've been shut down in litigation. If Express pulled the trigger back then, it would've been (potentially) left in a position with a shut down Ground operation, and Express with DGO employees HIGHLY pissed off that they had been sold down the river. Imagine Fred trying to make a plea to Express employees to "trust" him and deliver non-overnight volume (after having kick them in the groin and pulling delivery of non-overnight volume). Even Express saw danger there.
Fast forward to 2011. Ground is making the transition to an ISP model (which should place it just on the otherside of the legality line), Ground has improved its service - ironically due to the poor economy, turnover at Ground has slowed considerably in the past 18 months and FedEx has confidence that Ground can meet the minimum service level needed to keep customers.
Is is just coincidence that the ISP model will be implemented in most terminals by the end of this year? Is is just coincidence that Ground is getting new hardware (and will be getting new software) for their drivers which will assuredly recognize Express ASTRA codes? Is it just coincidence that Express has been pushing hard not only for productivity improvements, but also tinkering with route structures on a national level?
What's that early 1970's song? Sign, sign, everywhere a sign...
No, I don't think FedEx cares about me. But I do think they care about their public image. Some here seem to think they'll be down right vicious in getting rid of topped out couriers. But as I was asking, I don't think anything will happen before Congress passes that bill. They don't want to give anyone any ammo to turn a media spotlight on them. You make good points, and you seem to have inside info that is legit. I could live without the personal asides, but I hope you'll keep us informed. They must be planning on a mostly part-time workforce. Probably not too many people with ambition will want a 35 HR a week job that requires you to hump for every penny but has no future.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
The Senate adjourned without addressing the FAA Reauthorization. It looks like Reid got some encouragement afterall. Congress will be out for over a month, so those FAA employees affected will be out of work, along with all of the contract construction workers. Not having a continuing resolution is going to cost the Feds at least $1 Billion in lost fees. The next month will see lots of arm twisting it appears. The dance continues, the outcome is still undetermined, but I'd still bet that Express employees will get tossed under the bus.
Cactus
Just telling it like it is
Sounds like business as usual.
Congress once again fails to get their act together and takes another extended vacation. Therefore the problem still festers. Teamsters are a huge disappointment by running away again and Fred continues his underhanded ways.
We're already under the bus, so this'll be nothing new.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Mr FedEx" stated in another string that the teamsters essentially need to step up to the plate to organize Expresss - it is the other way around, Express employees need to "come to the Teamsters" in order to get them to expend any effort on behalf of the Express employees. A Mexican standoff defined... (Quote from Ricochet1a).
You and I usually agree, but you're wrong on this one. As long as Fred's Fear Factory operates with a free hand, very few are willing to step-up and lead a unionization drive. Those who went to the Teamsters in 1996 were abandoned when Fred slid his RLA language into the FAA Reauthorization Bill of that era. They promised legal support, yet never provided it, and also guaranteed that Teamster reps would be outside Express locations passing out flyers and providing information. That didn't happen either. The Teamsters abandoned FedEx employees, and not the other way around.
What is clear is that the Teamsters don't understand the environment at FedEx. Although it's illegal, FedEx targets and eliminates union supporters, and every employee with half a brain knows it. That's why the Teamsters need to come to us, not only to redeem themselves for their bad faith "support" in the past, but to educate and legally protect employees who are willing to stand-up to FedEx tactics. Management "strike teams" are standing-by, just waiting to spring into action with BBQ's, false promises, and outright lies to counter any unionization threat.
I fully expect Fred to get his way again with the RLA, and for the Democrats to fold like a house of cards in their "fight" to give us a reasonable means of organizing. Smith's "investment" in politiciians has paid-off for him again.
You and I usually agree, but you're wrong on this one. As long as Fred's Fear Factory operates with a free hand, very few are willing to step-up and lead a unionization drive. Those who went to the Teamsters in 1996 were abandoned when Fred slid his RLA language into the FAA Reauthorization Bill of that era. They promised legal support, yet never provided it, and also guaranteed that Teamster reps would be outside Express locations passing out flyers and providing information. That didn't happen either. The Teamsters abandoned FedEx employees, and not the other way around.
What is clear is that the Teamsters don't understand the environment at FedEx. Although it's illegal, FedEx targets and eliminates union supporters, and every employee with half a brain knows it. That's why the Teamsters need to come to us, not only to redeem themselves for their bad faith "support" in the past, but to educate and legally protect employees who are willing to stand-up to FedEx tactics. Management "strike teams" are standing-by, just waiting to spring into action with BBQ's, false promises, and outright lies to counter any unionization threat.
I fully expect Fred to get his way again with the RLA, and for the Democrats to fold like a house of cards in their "fight" to give us a reasonable means of organizing. Smith's "investment" in politiciians has paid-off for him again.
Cactus
Just telling it like it is
Too bad there's not another union available to compete with the Teamsters for this line of work.
They really have handled this whole thing poorly.
Hoffa Jr. sure ain't Hoffa Sr. Many UPS employees will tell you that.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Back in the 90's, the AFL/CIO was also interested in organizing Express. As far as I know, they've never been interested since. Unfortunately, the Teamsters are the only game in town for now, and they are pathetically inept. One would think that an organization needing both our people and dollars would be more action-oriented and competent. Had the Teamsters actually put forth a decent organizing effort, Fred would have a major problem on his hands right now.
Like I said, it's obvious that they don't understand our situation, and until they do, Fred is going to have his way with us. Bend over and grab those ankles, especially after the Democrats kiss his ring in September and dis-allow the modifications proposed to the RLA.
Oh, and did you know that Express is already designing a Ground/Express integrated dispatch for all of those E2 and XS pickups that Ground will be getting? Also, don't be surprised if some of those Ground trailers with rollers (for containers) start re-appearing in the very near future. My guess is that they are stored somewhere until the changeover takes place. That would seem to indicate that Fred might be trying to get rid of the RTD's by replacing their job function with Ground contractors (at least the E2 and XS freight).
The FedEx Ground package handlers are voting for union certification on August 12th. The "independent contractors" of FedEx are still in legal limbo since it's now being appealed in the Supreme Court.
