Rats Jumping a Sinking Ship?

[MassWineGuy]

Last month our SM with 35 years at Express went to Ground to manage a terminal. Our district manager still oversees Express, but now also manages Ground. At a recent meeting with ops mgrs, he told them “Managers at Ground know how to run a business. Managers at Express are babysitters.” Ground mgrs do a tenth of the work Express mgrs do, so that’s quite insulting.

Has anyone seen such switching at their locations?

 

[Guitarman01]

Express morale has to be at an all time low with more and more locations rolling out forge knowing things will never be as good as they used to be and basically being written out of the software.

 

[purpder]

Last month our SM with 35 years at Express went to Ground to manage a terminal. Our district manager still oversees Express, but now also manages Ground. At a recent meeting with ops mgrs, he told them “Managers at Ground know how to run a business. Managers at Express are babysitters.” Ground mgrs do a tenth of the work Express mgrs do, so that’s quite insulting.

Has anyone seen such switching at their locations?

He's not wrong saying Express managers are babysitters. Ground and UPS don't baby their employees. Express does

 

[Commercial Inside Release]

UPS don't baby their employees

UPS dogs their employees like the worst control freak, draconian parents imaginable... All day, every day they nag them to within an inch of their sanity, and monitor every minute of their actions. Christ, they even tell you what socks you are going to wear, and make you buy them at $5+\pair.

 

[MassWineGuy]

UPS drivers earn every penny of their blood money. But it comes at a price.

 

[59 Dano]

Last month our SM with 35 years at Express went to Ground to manage a terminal. Our district manager still oversees Express, but now also manages Ground. At a recent meeting with ops mgrs, he told them “Managers at Ground know how to run a business. Managers at Express are babysitters.” Ground mgrs do a tenth of the work Express mgrs do, so that’s quite insulting.

There's an element of truth to that. Ground managers don't have any onroad employees, no vehicles to deal with, practically no service concerns, and don't have most all of their freight arriving at once in the morning and the issues that come with that.

The primary daily concerns for Ground managers are sort start times, flow rates, and sort down times.

 

[59 Dano]

He's not wrong saying Express managers are babysitters. Ground and UPS don't baby their employees. Express does

Oh yeah. Ask an Express courier why it took 23 minutes to get from point A to point B when it normally takes 6 and "OMG WHY AM I BEING HARASSED WITH SUCH UNREASONABLE DEMANDS" ensues.

 

[Coldworld]

UPS dogs their employees like the worst control freak, draconian parents imaginable... All day, every day they nag them to within an inch of their sanity, and monitor every minute of their actions. Christ, they even tell you what socks you are going to wear, and make you buy them at $5+\pair.

 

[MassWineGuy]

There's an element of truth to that. Ground managers don't have any onroad employees, no vehicles to deal with, practically no service concerns, and don't have most all of their freight arriving at once in the morning and the issues that come with that.

The primary daily concerns for Ground managers are sort start times, flow rates, and sort down times.

Yes. So they really don’t have to deal with tons of issues that mgrs at Express do. The contractors essentially deal with drivers.

 

[10-27]

Last month our SM with 35 years at Express went to Ground to manage a terminal. Our district manager still oversees Express, but now also manages Ground. At a recent meeting with ops mgrs, he told them “Managers at Ground know how to run a business. Managers at Express are babysitters.” Ground mgrs do a tenth of the work Express mgrs do, so that’s quite insulting.

Has anyone seen such switching at their locations?

Through the years there have been several rounds of managers getting buyouts to cut cost. Only to get replaced by a new generation of managers that were useless couriers. Most of the old school "Can Do" type ops managers are gone, and what we have now is a generation of obese, inbred imbeciles that couldn't even do the courier job. Not all, but most of the new generation manager has no desire, interest, or skill set to run a multi million dollar operation. Critical thinking is gone. Their goal is to get out of the facility as soon as possible after the sort is down. Couple this with clueless engineers and fuzzy ideas ( DRA, Midday, ESTAR, etc...) and now a "leader" that's clearly out of touch with the front line, essential employees, who's only interest is lining his own pockets. His goal is to have a workforce that is underpaid and overworked as to please his and the shareholders bank accounts first of all. I rarely post here, but these are some of my experiences and observations as a 42 year employee.

 

[59 Dano]

Through the years there have been several rounds of managers getting buyouts to cut cost. Only to get replaced by a new generation of managers that were useless couriers. Most of the old school "Can Do" type ops managers are gone, and what we have now is a generation of obese, inbred imbeciles that couldn't even do the courier job. Not all, but most of the new generation manager has no desire, interest, or skill set to run a multi million dollar operation. Critical thinking is gone. Their goal is to get out of the facility as soon as possible after the sort is down. Couple this with clueless engineers and fuzzy ideas ( DRA, Midday, ESTAR, etc...) and now a "leader" that's clearly out of touch with the front line, essential employees, who's only interest is lining his own pockets. His goal is to have a workforce that is underpaid and overworked as to please his and the shareholders bank accounts first of all. I rarely post here, but these are some of my experiences and observations as a 42 year employee.

The idea that it takes a good courier to make a good manager is a myth. The old school managers worked largely under the radar and were often able to forge, falsify, and fudge with impunity if needed. New technology and methods to evaluate performance played a big role in exposing many of the "can do" managers.

 

[MassWineGuy]

I think there’s a lot of truth in what you say.

 

[59 Dano]

I think there’s a lot of truth in what you say.

It's pretty easy to notice once you've seen it enough. I came in not too long before they started to get a little deeper in the tech and ability to track things and was lucky in that there was an opportunity to play with all of this stuff as it was being implemented. Now? Give anyone who knows what to look for a station and about a half hour and it's pretty easy to evaluate it. A lot of smoke and mirrors BS that used to go undetected sticks out like a sore thumb.

It's such a terrible misconception that a good courier makes a good manager. Good couriers who go into management are just as likely as bad couriers to flop. Lots of good couriers who go into management want to be buddy-buddy with their employees and get taken advantage of. Few of them have ever had to delegate anything and that can be an issue. Others have trouble going from 'all I have to worry about is my route' to 'I'm responsible for lots of moving parts that all have to come together.' Some are terrified at being seen as sellouts. Anyone who is a people pleaser has no business in a management position. There is an enormous difference between the ability to run a route and the ability to understand the bigger picture and assemble a plan and successfully execute it. The former is reliant upon skills that can be taught while the latter is more reliant upon traits that can't.

 

[MassWineGuy]

The ops managers at my station are all pretty well-liked and respected. My own mgr switched over about three years ago from 12 years as a courier. We get along very well. But each of us knows there’s a line. From my perspective, any ops mgr should have some experience driving a route. Our ex SM had none, which made me doubt some of her actions.

The lots of moving parts analogy is spot on. I’ve seen even experienced mgrs new to a PM sort look a little overwhelmed.

 

[Fred's Myth]

It's pretty easy to notice once you've seen it enough. I came in not too long before they started to get a little deeper in the tech and ability to track things and was lucky in that there was an opportunity to play with all of this stuff as it was being implemented. Now? Give anyone who knows what to look for a station and about a half hour and it's pretty easy to evaluate it. A lot of smoke and mirrors BS that used to go undetected sticks out like a sore thumb.

It's such a terrible misconception that a good courier makes a good manager. Good couriers who go into management are just as likely as bad couriers to flop. Lots of good couriers who go into management want to be buddy-buddy with their employees and get taken advantage of. Few of them have ever had to delegate anything and that can be an issue. Others have trouble going from 'all I have to worry about is my route' to 'I'm responsible for lots of moving parts that all have to come together.' Some are terrified at being seen as sellouts. Anyone who is a people pleaser has no business in a management position. There is an enormous difference between the ability to run a route and the ability to understand the bigger picture and assemble a plan and successfully execute it. The former is reliant upon skills that can be taught while the latter is more reliant upon traits that can't.

So are you saying that all the videos we were forced to watch, illustrating how the process worked, were real world? That management training based on these training videos properly prepared managers to manage? And that an individual who couldn’t even set up their own route to be successful could properly manage others to accomplish that task?

Didn’t think so.

 

[MassWineGuy]

I agree with lots of what you say. But I strongly believe that many can be decent to excellent couriers, while many fewer have the skills and temperament to be good managers. At least that’s what I’ve experienced over the years and having a couple of horrible managers.

 

[59 Dano]

So are you saying that all the videos we were forced to watch, illustrating how the process worked, were real world? That management training based on these training videos properly prepared managers to manage?

I have no idea what videos you're talking about.

And that an individual who couldn’t even set up their own route to be successful could properly manage others to accomplish that task?

Oh, he most certainly could. There's no reason why he couldn't. His job is to lead a team to results, not to set up a courier's route. If the courier can't set up his own route, he needs to find another line of work.

 

[59 Dano]

I agree with lots of what you say. But I strongly believe that many can be decent to excellent couriers, while many fewer have the skills and temperament to be good managers. At least that’s what I’ve experienced over the years and having a couple of horrible managers.

I'm not saying that good couriers can't be good managers. I'm saying that being a good courier is not an indication that one would make a good manager.

 

[MassWineGuy]

That was what I was trying to say. Courier skills can be taught and honed to a decent extent. The administrative and organizational parts of managing can be taught. But leadership skills really can’t. That goes to how someone regards and treats others, which definitely affects how teams succeed and goals get met.

 

[Fred's Myth]

I'm not saying that good couriers can't be good managers. I'm saying that being a good courier is not an indication that one would make a good manager.

And the corollary of bad courier can be a good manager??