There is Finally Hope for Liberals

Wally

BrownCafe Innovator & King of Puns
Don't laugh. @Future has be a test subject for these artificial nads. Remember his pipe
Mn4I_L.gif
cleaner arms? Well look at his guns now!
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
if you didnt hire workers, then its indeed your wealth

but if you hired workers, then its actually their wealth not yours.
You think people should start a business, build it up from nothing breaking their backs, then turn it over to people who want all the benefits without the risks. Who want a short work day with high pay. And long amounts of time off. Don't tell me I'm lying because you've said all of this repeatedly. You live in a fantasy world. What's that called again? The Matrix?
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
You think people should start a business, build it up from nothing breaking their backs, then turn it over to people who want all the benefits without the risks. Who want a short work day with high pay. And long amounts of time off. Don't tell me I'm lying because you've said all of this repeatedly. You live in a fantasy world. What's that called again? The Matrix?
but you are lying

im saying if 1 worker builds up a business then that business is theirs, but dont hire another employee; only do more co owners. 1 worker 1 vote. not 1 share 1 vote.

people inventing things is worth something extra which includes starting businesses.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
but you are lying

im saying if 1 worker builds up a business then that business is theirs, but dont hire another employee; only do more co owners. 1 worker 1 vote. not 1 share 1 vote.

people inventing things is worth something extra which includes starting businesses.
No I'm not lying. You're saying people should take all the risks, build up a business, then add co-owners who share in all the rewards. Doesn't work that way. Do your added co-owners invest an equal share into the business? Do they work 16-20 hours a day to make the business successful? Well?

A guy works 15 years at two jobs to save enough money to get his business started. He's investing his life savings in hopes of building a successful business. Let's say he has $70k in savings and invests $50k of it. After two years of 80-100 hr weeks he needs help to handle the work. Under your plan he needs to bring on a co-owner. Is that co-owner going to invest $50k into the business? Is he going to spend the next couple of years working 80-100 hrs a week to make sure he doesn't lose his investment? Are YOU going to do that? Or are you expecting to walk into 30 hrs a week with no investment and lots of time off? But as co-owner share equally in the proceeds and have the business cover your healthcare, retirement, and other benefits? Tell us how it all works where a guy breaks his back, risks his savings, then brings on others who share in the rewards without any risk to themselves?
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
No I'm not lying. You're saying people should take all the risks, build up a business, then add co-owners who share in all the rewards. Doesn't work that way. Do your added co-owners invest an equal share into the business? Do they work 16-20 hours a day to make the business successful? Well?

A guy works 15 years at two jobs to save enough money to get his business started. He's investing his life savings in hopes of building a successful business. Let's say he has $70k in savings and invests $50k of it. After two years of 80-100 hr weeks he needs help to handle the work. Under your plan he needs to bring on a co-owner. Is that co-owner going to invest $50k into the business? Is he going to spend the next couple of years working 80-100 hrs a week to make sure he doesn't lose his investment? Are YOU going to do that? Or are you expecting to walk into 30 hrs a week with no investment and lots of time off? But as co-owner share equally in the proceeds and have the business cover your healthcare, retirement, and other benefits? Tell us how it all works where a guy breaks his back, risks his savings, then brings on others who share in the rewards without any risk to themselves?
You believe your own lies. yes you are.richard wolff explains this on his democracy at work channel. its not theory btw

workers take risks too
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
You believe your own lies. yes you are.richard wolff explains this on his democracy at work channel. its not theory btw

workers take risks too
I painted a scenario for you. You've already said the owner should bring on co-owners, not employees. Owners share the rewards of a successful business. In your view should co-owners be brought on without investment or long hours like the original owner? Share the rewards but not the risks?

There's a joke that the definition of an entrepreneur is a person who'll work 16 hrs a day for themselves so that they don't have to work 8 hours a day for someone else. Are you prepared to save for years to strike out on your own and work long hours? Are you going to then bring on someone as co-owner to invest an equal amount and share the long hours too? Or are you going to bring on someone and tell them that you consider them a co-owner and you're going to let them work 30 hrs a week, have 2 months of paid vacation a year, great healthcare, and split the after expense profit with them while you put in 60 hrs, do all the paperwork, open the business in the morning, close it in the afternoon while they come in later and leave early? It's going to be an equal division of labor you say but they want two months off a year but you've got to be there to run the business because they don't know how to and they don't want to be treated like an employee, telling them to do this or that. Well?
 

Wally

BrownCafe Innovator & King of Puns
if you didnt hire workers, then its indeed your wealth

but if you hired workers, then its actually their wealth not yours.
Tell that to the employer paying their half of the workers social security, 6.2 percent!
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
I painted a scenario for you. You've already said the owner should bring on co-owners, not employees. Owners share the rewards of a successful business. In your view should co-owners be brought on without investment or long hours like the original owner? Share the rewards but not the risks?

There's a joke that the definition of an entrepreneur is a person who'll work 16 hrs a day for themselves so that they don't have to work 8 hours a day for someone else. Are you prepared to save for years to strike out on your own and work long hours? Are you going to then bring on someone as co-owner to invest an equal amount and share the long hours too? Or are you going to bring on someone and tell them that you consider them a co-owner and you're going to let them work 30 hrs a week, have 2 months of paid vacation a year, great healthcare, and split the after expense profit with them while you put in 60 hrs, do all the paperwork, open the business in the morning, close it in the afternoon while they come in later and leave early? It's going to be an equal division of labor you say but they want two months off a year but you've got to be there to run the business because they don't know how to and they don't want to be treated like an employee, telling them to do this or that. Well?
The name of the videos are called ask prof wolff. but i would watch his channel generally. they are already transitioning from capitalism to worker owned/run biz.

Maybe democracy collaborative has something on it too
 
Last edited:

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The name of the videos are called ask prof wolff. but i would watch his channel generally. they are already transitioning from capitalism to worker owned/run biz.

Maybe democracy collaborative has something on it too
You didn't answer my questions.
 
Top