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Brown Dog
Guest
Better think thru the Pension Takeover by Uncle Parcel !!!!......I suggest that you ask management how happy they are with their poor (and getting poorer) pension plan ....
Would that be the one that is funded at 110%? Why would I want out of Central States for something like that? Why would I want 25 or 30 and out at any age when I could wait till I'm sixty-two with Central States?
We will see the details pretty soon, unlike ten years ago.
We will see the details pretty soon, unlike ten years ago.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Sorry, I have been too busy thinking about the "take down" of the pension by the teamster
CS pension fund.
OK, I thought about it now.
I think a "take over" by UPS is better than the "shakedown" of the teamster CS plan.
CS pension fund.
OK, I thought about it now.
I think a "take over" by UPS is better than the "shakedown" of the teamster CS plan.
satellitedriver
Moderator
It all depends on which way you are facing when it happens.
Basiclly what i have understood is that UPS will be out of their financial obligations to Central States after paying the buyout of Approx. 6 billion. We will be left to be taken care of by Central States prior to the contract and after it will be set up by Ups for ups ! What a jewel that we got to rely on Central States once again for a major part of our pension ? They are in trouble now whats to say that they won`t be in trouble later too ? Duh ! Ups gets the lifeboat and we get to share the vest in the water ? I just can`t see this as a win/win or more like a win for ups and a loose for the hourly`s. Anybody want to lay some info down what they heard ?
One of the real bad parts of this whole buyout thing is that we really have no say so in the matter. UPS does not need our approval. They can legally pay the buyout amount and proceed forward whether we like it or not.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Saw the only way that ups can buy out is with the approval of the teamsters, they cannot just opt out against our will. The teamsters better make sure that all involved are made aware of all the details regarding this issue.One of the real bad parts of this whole buyout thing is that we really have no say so in the matter. UPS does not need our approval. They can legally pay the buyout amount and proceed forward whether we like it or not.
browned_out
Well-Known Member
1 Question-Do you think that the whole company (hourlys
/pt) will have to vote on this issue, or will it be limited to just CS covered employees? Being on the West Coast and covered by a different pension plan, I would feel weird deciding your out come.
brett636
Well-Known Member
I still fail to see how there is any bad side to all of this. UPS wins because it no longer has an ever increasing obligation to central states. UPSers win because they get their 30 and out back with a secure pension. Central States wins because it gets a large cash infusion and no longer has an increasing liability to a growing number of UPSers.
The part I would be most focusing on is what does the company want in return for making this huge monetary investment to central states. The amount of money involved certainly gives UPS some clout in negotiations on other issues (wages, wage progressions, work rules. etc.)
The part I would be most focusing on is what does the company want in return for making this huge monetary investment to central states. The amount of money involved certainly gives UPS some clout in negotiations on other issues (wages, wage progressions, work rules. etc.)
Red,
I believe that you are wrong there friend. Once the buy out amount is set, the only requirement that UPS must meet is come up with the money, I don't believe they need the teamsters approval. Now the teamsters might have there hand in setting the buy out amount, I don't know about that. But if UPS has the money, I don't think the teamsters have the power to stop the buy out. At least that is the way I understand the process.
hourlys/pt) will have to vote on this issue, or will it be limited to just CS covered employees? Being on the West Coast and covered by a different pension plan, I would feel weird deciding your out come.
No one will vote on this, it is out of our hands!!!
Yesterday, my Center Manager was asking us to make sure UPS has an up to date mailing address for us. He didn't know the details why, only that we will get something in the mail regarding the pension and contract matters in the near future.1 We will see what the particulars are then.
1 We will see what the particulars are then.Brett,
Let me give you a scenario:
Number one, UPS stated that they would reinstate the 30 and out clause, CS has not said that. So, even if UPS buys there way out, our pension up to the time of the buy out stays with CS, anything accrued after that would go into the new fund.
So, someone with say 25 years would get a pension from CS for 25 years with the rest of their years of pension coming out of the new plan. Well the new plan has 30 and out. So this person would draw 5 years pension at any age from the new plan, but they will still have to wait until age 62 or 65 to draw the 25 years of pension from CS who has not reinstated the 30 and out clause.
Myself for example, I will have 30 full time at age 51. I could draw my five years from UPS at that time but would still have to wait 11 more years to draw the 25 from CS. In other words, most people still can not retire until age 62 or 65, unless you're a new hire.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Saw to my understanding that the pension is a negiotated item and must be negiotated as such.
Scratch i noticed that you stated that you should be receiving some info soon on the pension, i ask that if you guys get it if someone could please poat it so that we all can view its details and maybe just maybe we can help you come up with some questions that should be answered before the decision making process.
705red,
Personally, I think that it is already pretty much a done deal, based on the IBT pushing the October date and UPS gathering current mailing info. UPS has been sitting on a large pile of cash for a long time and is getting ready to spend it. The new pension laws go into effect at the end of the year,so I expect things to get interesting fast. Right now, the rumor mill has all kind of stuff going, 4.6 to 12 billion to fix pensions, etc. I have the attitude of waiting to see whats in writing before I make my mind up. I start year thirty-three next month, and I am 49, and am trying to not get too excited. It has got to be a good deal to get us to take it, but we have to figure out if the givebacks are worth it. I expect that the whole country will be in on it, and I hope that we will all benefit. I think that UPS and the Teamsters have learned a lot from the mistakes made ten years ago, for example; A strike vote before the members get pension reform info. The good thing about the Brown Cafe, UPS employees from all over the world can share information with each other. We just have to decide for ourselves what is BS and what is not.
Captain America
SuperDAD to the rescue
I was at our union meeting last sunday and our guys said that it is under negotiation for UPS's plan to make up the difference so you are not trapped by CS. MY God the company has got to be balking at the cost. It all needs to be done by the end of the year or the new rules go into effect and CS and UPS lose.
I was just skimming over the new pension reform act, the actually read and understanding is way over my head, but there was an interesting provision relating to tax penalities for any pension fund listed as critical that go into effect in January "08". Something like 10 percent surcharge of the current underfunded liablity. I believe that those payments go directly to Uncle Sam providing no relief or help to the beleaguered pension funds and or future pensioners. Whether this applies to the Central States trust, I really do not know, but if it does it provides another additional incentive for pushing this contract through in the next 3 months. With the withdraw liability basically a done deal with UPS paying 6 plus billion into the trust before the new year I would imagine that those additional funds should help push the Central States underfunding to a acceptable level to prevent these fines, taxes or penalities. This saves everybody contributing and or participating in that fund not just the UPS members.
The costs involved with this deal are considerable, but I am guessing that the professional bean counters from both sides selected the less of two evils. Also consider that UPS has already established pension funds set up for their employees (union and non-union) that apparently have been very well taken care of over the years, in other words that have the means or funds to absorb the additional costs.
Another big issue with this contract has to do with our Health and Welfare benefits active and or retired. Most companies are balking about the rising health costs. Whether you are under the company or union sponsored Health and Welfare plans, those benefits are provided by negotiated hourly increases in master contract language. From my limited understanding those weekly contributions are equal to the current pension payout. It is another costly factor that tends to take a back seat to the current pension debate.
Guess we all have to wait and see, take some deep breaths and let us all practice patience....
The costs involved with this deal are considerable, but I am guessing that the professional bean counters from both sides selected the less of two evils. Also consider that UPS has already established pension funds set up for their employees (union and non-union) that apparently have been very well taken care of over the years, in other words that have the means or funds to absorb the additional costs.
Another big issue with this contract has to do with our Health and Welfare benefits active and or retired. Most companies are balking about the rising health costs. Whether you are under the company or union sponsored Health and Welfare plans, those benefits are provided by negotiated hourly increases in master contract language. From my limited understanding those weekly contributions are equal to the current pension payout. It is another costly factor that tends to take a back seat to the current pension debate.
Guess we all have to wait and see, take some deep breaths and let us all practice patience....
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Scratch you wont be in a pension fund that is 110% vested. When ups pulls out and starts a new fund it will be for brand new employees. I have 25 yrs vested in CS and unfortunately thats where Ill be stuck.
Whatever years you have thats what you will keep in CS and then you will start all over with the UPS plan. I dont plan on working for ups another 25 yrs
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Brown Dog
Guest
As long as our pension was a Teamster pension we have been working for the Teamsters..We were loaned out to UPS......
