Thinking about applying for Sunrise (3AM to 8AM) and I have some questions

ORLY!?!

Master Loader
That's one of the numerous reasons I'm fond of UPS. I definitely lost weight and increased muscle mass somewhat significantly, and I've only been there for a little less than three months. I never really wanna work out or exercise on my own time so it's pretty awesome to get it done while at work.

Surem its great. To get paid to work out is amazing. I was at 230 when i started, now I'm hovering around 200. I cant gain weight at all, I've tried. When I played ice hockey, I tried to gain as much weight as possible. I went as far as 250, solid. I still have that mentality. Nothing is more hardcore or bad***** then someone thats used to being around the weight within training and hold cable meaning of being useful.

I look at myself now, Jesus. I'm a choir boy now... lulz
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
To address a number of issues you brought up:

As far as work shoes: I got steel toe Caterpillar work boots "Birmingham" and found them to be really comfortable.

The $23.70 I earn is as an air driver. See if this job a/k/a classification exists in one or both of the facilities you are interested in possibly working in. Then keep your driving record clean and learn to operate a stick. From the day you start air driving, it takes two years to reach top scale. You will never make $23.70 because if you started air driving today, top scale two years from now will be more than this amount.

As far as switching hubs, what you say makes all the sense in the world, but, in short, it is typically not allowed. From what I have seen, I don't think UPS is a very flexible innovative company in most ways.
 

NI3

Well-Known Member
What's "air driving"? $23.70 after 17 years? No way in hell I'm loading trucks for that long.
I'm not sure who came up such scaling. Do they think that I have twice the performance after 17 years?

Someone criticized college students as bad employees because we have other stuff going on. I don't know if that's a fair comment. Just look at people with kids who need days off for things that have to do with their kids.
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
What's "air driving"? $23.70 after 17 years? No way in hell I'm loading trucks for that long.
I'm not sure who came up such scaling. Do they think that I have twice the performance after 17 years?

Someone criticized college students as bad employees because we have other stuff going on. I don't know if that's a fair comment. Just look at people with kids who need days off for things that have to do with their kids.

Air driver are driver that deliver only Air package most work Tues - Sat. and only 8 hrs. These position usually go to the most senior driver in the building (drivers with more than 15 years of seniority in some building it might be over 20 years).

Everyone has things to do it whether we have kids or not we show up to work and on time or we don't have a job. I have 2 small children I know I'm going to miss a lot of there events that the nature of the job. Younger worker get a bad rap because they have some many dam excuses why things happen. Just show up to work and on time so somebody else doesn't have to pick up your slack.
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
You asked some fair questions in your last post, and feel free to keep them coming, but I would like to also direct you to the union contract a/k/a "National Master Agreement" which is permanently listed as the first thread under the forum "union issues." That is basically our "rule book" that governs how things are done at UPS. "Air Driving" is under Article 40. You may also want to use the search engine on BC. Instead of asking what air driving is in your post and waiting for a reply, you could have had your answer much more quickly.

As you can read in article 40, there is provision for full time air driving as well as part time air driving and even "air walking." Now just because the provision exists in the contract, it does not mean that every hub will have someone in such a job. There are many small centers without any air drivers at all. The hub I work out of has only part time air drivers, such as me, as well as "Article 22.3" full-timers who do what would otherwise be a part time air route and then something else, like get all the trucks staged in the building overnight before the preload begins.

As far as how long you would have to wait to get a part time air route, that simply depends on the particular building at a particular time. I went driving in less than 4 years, and my wait was longer than it needed to be at the time, in 2003. For a time I had the absolutely coolest sup on the preload and was basically happy doing what I was doing.

If the air driving job of which I speak sounds appealing to you, I would encourage you to see what the air driving opportunities are at both of the buildings at which you are considering working. Try to find out how many of the current air drivers on the roster see themselves as carreer air drivers, and for how many is the air driving possibly a stepping stone to full time package car. The question can be answered quite easily without speaking to the individuals: simply note how long they have been air drivers. If it has been for a time period much longer than what is a normal wait for being able to go full time package car, they are probably right where they want to be.

On this issue, you may want to look through my other posts to get more information, in short, I do want to warn you that I am not sure what the future holds for air driver classification in the contract that is to come. There have been attempts to scale back the use of air drivers...

I would discourage you from worrying too much about which building you would be better suited for based on the type of equipmant used on the preload. If you can lift a 70 lb weight off a table two feet high, carry it 15 feet, and place it on the ground, you mosy certainly should be able to do the job at either facility.

Finally, through your posts, I feel I have gotten some sense of your personality...I think you are in at least some ways a bit like me...take this for whatever its worth to you...

You seem to consider carefully the things you will undertake, ask appropriate questions, and then make a decision. You would NOT be one to just come home one day with three cute puppies you saw at the animal shelter which you just spontaneously happened to walk into on the occasion your family sent you to the grocery store for a loaf of bread. You would consider carefully the cost and time commitment involved...I can only commend you for your ways...

Now with that said, the passing years have also taught me to better appreciate just how unpredictable life is...for both good and bad, and how our carefully laid out plans can, in the twinkling of an eye, need a total make over.

The uncertainty of life, I believe is a spiritual issue regardless of what faith one may or may not practice. As I have been writing, my mind has been going... Here, for what ever its worth is a hymn that was sung recently at the church I go to. The words speak for themselves and represent what my attitude is to the uncertainties of life:

All my hope on God is founded;
he doth still my trust renew,
me through change and chance he guideth,
only good and only true.
God unknown,
he alone
calls my heart to be his own.

Pride of man and earthly glory,
sword and crown betray his trust;
what with care and toil he buildeth,
tower and temple fall to dust.
But God's power,
hour by hour,
is my temple and my tower.

God's great goodness aye endureth,
deep his wisdom, passing thought:
splendor, light and life attend him,
beauty springeth out of naught.
Evermore
from his store
newborn worlds rise and adore.

Daily doth the almighty Giver
bounteous gifts on us bestow;
his desire our soul delighteth,
pleasure leads us where we go.
Love doth stand
at his hand;
joy doth wait on his command.

Still from man to God eternal
sacrifice of praise be done,
high above all praises praising
for the gift of Christ, his Son.
Christ doth call
one and all:
ye who follow shall not fall.
 
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NI3

Well-Known Member
would like to also direct you to the union contract a/k/a "National Master Agreement" ...That is basically our "rule book" that governs how things are done at UPS.

hrmf. interesting.


I would discourage you from worrying too much about which building you would be better suited for based on the type of equipmant used on the preload. If you can lift a 70 lb weight off a table two feet high, carry it 15 feet, and place it on the ground, you mosy certainly should be able to do the job at either facility.
So I'm just flipping a coin between the two locations it looks like.


The uncertainty of life, I believe is a spiritual issue regardless of what faith one may or may not practice. As I have been writing, my mind has been going... Here, for what ever its worth is a hymn that was sung recently at the church I go to. The words speak for themselves and represent what my attitude is to the uncertainties of life:
ummm uh so confused..
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
would like to also direct you to the union contract a/k/a "National Master Agreement" ...That is basically our "rule book" that governs how things are done at UPS.
hrmf. interesting.
I would discourage you from worrying too much about which building you would be better suited for based on the type of equipmant used on the preload. If you can lift a 70 lb weight off a table two feet high, carry it 15 feet, and place it on the ground, you mosy certainly should be able to do the job at either facility. So I'm just flipping a coin between the two locations it looks like.
So I'm just flipping a coin between the two locations it looks like.
Well, does air driving sound like something you would like to do? If so, have you looked into which facility would more likely have air driver position openings? Don't know if this is clear to you: at least where I work, air drivers for any particular building are hired from among the people who already work at that building. The job isn't offered to an interested individual who is based out of the building on the other side of town.
The uncertainty of life, I believe is a spiritual issue regardless of what faith one may or may not practice. As I have been writing, my mind has been going... Here, for what ever its worth is a hymn that was sung recently at the church I go to. The words speak for themselves and represent what my attitude is to the uncertainties of life:
ummm uh so confused..
What exactly are you confused about? It may help if you had a better idea of what you would like to be doing long term... Take this for whatever its worth to you...I have been with UPS 12 years now. The previous organization I worked for was the place I thought I would someday retire from...in like 30 or 40 years. To make a long story short and without boring you to tears with the details, someone right above me who I thought I was getting along with just fine for two years suddenly turned against me. After another year I had to quit for the sake of my well being. I left without anything else lined up...much to the surprise of people who have known me to be a responsible person. I don't believe there was anyway I could have forseen what was going to happen and avoided it...Within a number of months I signed on with UPS, and the rest is history, as they say...
 

NI3

Well-Known Member

So I'm just flipping a coin between the two locations it looks like.
Well, does air driving sound like something you would like to do? If so, have you looked into which facility would more likely have air driver position openings?
Very good point. Never thought about this.


The uncertainty of life, I believe is a spiritual issue regardless of what faith one may or may not practice. As I have been writing, my mind has been going... Here, for what ever its worth is a hymn that was sung recently at the church I go to. The words speak for themselves and represent what my attitude is to the uncertainties of life:
ummm uh so confused..
(A.) What exactly are you confused about? (B.) It may help if you had a better idea of what you would like to be doing long term... [/QUOTE]

A. I was confused about the long religious thing you posted.

B. Yes, that is my problem. I need to figure this out :(
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
One a very immediate practical level comcerning your discernment between which of the two facilities you would apply to: have you considered whether one is in a much better (safer) neighborhood than the other.

Closely related to that question, have you gotten any sense of the kind of people you would be working with. You may want to hang out in the parking lot one day, and just do some people watching. Don't do anything to draw attention to yourself and the security guard and anyone else will think you are probably there waiting to give someone a ride. Now you need to be careful here, working in the building, people really trash their clothes and nobody cares what you look like, also like one of the coolest loaders in my building has both his arms like completely tatooed, and its not unusual to have guys drive out after the shift with loud rap "music" playing, so you you don't want to be too quick to judge. Now with that said, if all the guys from one building look like they belong to an outlaw motorcycle gang or something, you may want to apply for the other facility.

Finally, keep in mind that with a larger building, there are more places for a man to find his niche. If, for example, you find you don't work well with the sup on your boxline, at least in my local, by the union contract, you can place your name on a "preferred jobs list" requesting, say, the unload, and before a another person is hired for unloading, they are obligated to put you there.


Now, "about the long religious thing posted," and what I believe is the closely related issue of what you would like to be doing long term...Sorry to have confused you...

What I posted is a "hymn" ie. a song which is sung in church as part of worship. Check it out, if you wish, at the following website: Oremus Hymnal: All my hope on God is founded or you can look it up on You Tube, enter "All my hope on God is founded in the search. Any song is really poetry set to music, and as such, if it deals with something that is unfamiliar to you, the poetic language can leave a man confused quite easily. In addition, I am part of a church that uses some pretty old (but glorious in my opinion) material in our worship. Things like the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. So the archaic language can throw someone as well.

As I understand things, regarding myself to be a Christian, I am not just a "Deist," that's one who believes there is a God who is a "first cause" but rather a "Theist," who also believes, not just in a god who is a "first cause," but also in a God who continues to care for his creation and is personal. I, air_dr, am known to him and so are you, NI3. The implications of such a belief are tremendous in my mind:

As such, we are, in a very real way, truly part of something much bigger than ourselves. Given that you and I have at least a bond in a transcendent God by virtue of our creation, I feel you are worthy of my effort to give you tips on UPS. Ditto for a neighbor who I helped earlier today with an online application, etc. If I believed you, like I, were just a collection of molecules that traces its origins to what is ultimately some cosmic "accident," without any ultimate destiny or purpose for existing, then why would I care. I would then just go take a nap instead. Now, I will acknowledge there are many caring, moral, atheists and agnostics, and their unbelief doesn't diminish the goodness of something they may do in my mind. But I would say they are motivated to do good, not because of, but inspite of their core beliefs.

In addition, in light of the belief that God is personal, I do not feel abandoned to the whims of blind chance. Consider the following words of Jesus from the Bible: "26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble." While I will be the last person to advocate a life of passivity and irresponsibility, I want to be the first to say that "things happen for a purpose." Both good and bad things. And we are called to believe God is working everything out for his redemptive purposes, and that there is a plan for each of our lives. This is basically what the hymn writer, in poetic language was trying to say. See if that hymn text (song lyrics) now makes more sense to you.

This leads to the problem you acknowledged of your uncertainty of what you want to be doing long term... In short, I seek to do what I believe to be God's will for me. Very quickly, (because I have to go to work,) I believe I discover God's will by knowing and following the Bible, considering my natural strengths and weaknesses, seeking the counsel of trusted, competent people, and through prayer. We can continue this...I have to run now...
 

air_dr

Well-Known Member
I looked up the "Bubble of Goodness" website. I think I know what you are saying and I can respect the viewpoint. French philosopher and atheist Voltaire similarly made fun of Christians with his characters Candide and Dr. Pangloss. I remember reading portions of the book in a high school English class. The problem of evil is, hands down, the toughest issue those of us who believe in an all good all powerful God have to wrestle with and explain to skeptics.

You didn't really say what it was you believed, but I would encourage you to consider some of the alternatives to what I understand to be the Theistic view: God doesn't exist, he doesn't care, he's not always on duty, he can have a mean streak sometimes, or he is not all powerful. The implications of such a reality are chilling to me. If possible, I would much rather believe God is working everything out for his redemptive purposes and my future does not ultimately rest in my unsteady hands and feeble eyesight (figuratively speaking).

Now just because I would rather believe something doesn't make the belief true, and I will be the first to argue that none of us can believe something into existence. So the question, as I see it, comes down to whether it is intellectually honest or even sane to believe that the evil we see around us is part of God's uiltimate plan of redemption that could not be brought about in another way, and that we do indeed "live in the best of all possible words" as Voltaire wrote, allbeit sarcastically. My answer would be yes, and for a number of reasons.

First of all, sometimes within our earthly life time we come to appreciate the blessing of not having received what we wanted at some earlier time. One can see this in the relationship we see between a parent (or grandparent) and a small child. The discipline and the restrictions (no you can't have chocolate ice cream for breakfast lunch and dinner) are for the child's good, even if the child GENUNINELY (key point) does not have the understanding to appreciate it at the time and TRULY feels the adult hates them and is out to make their life miserable. The teenage girl who was convinced her parents surely wanted to make her a nun, by force if necessary, in time comes to realize the guy she so wanted to date was indeed a creep. Even as an adult, I am occasionally very grateful for prayers I prayed in adult life which were not answered in the way I had originally hoped. So while it does take a step of faith, I don't think its gullible, naive, or stupid to believe "God works all things for good..." because "his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than our thoughts..." and "no eye has seen nor ear heard what God has ready for those who love him..."

The above quotes are Biblical quotes and that gets me to the second point. I don't feel what I have written above is simply my own wild speculation or personal reflection. Instead, its based on what I believe the Bible teaches and that the Bible can be trusted. I believe it contains truth that has been divinely revealed to us, and our goal needs to be to seek to discover that truth rather than think or do what is popular or seems right in our eyes at a given moment. You may or may not believe this, or perhaps you simply haven't thought much about it. Defending the idea that the Bible is trustworthy has been the subject of many books over the centuries and I most certainly can't condense what has been written into this already too long post! If someone has the interest, they can look up people like Josh McDowell, Lee Stroebel, and Ravi Zaccarias. These men, and many others like them, are Christian apologists, and no that doesn't mean they have made it their life's work to be saying they're sorry. An apologist is one who strives to give a rational defense of some belief. I have found the above men and others like them to be engaging, intelligent, and unafraid of tough questions.
 
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NI3

Well-Known Member
I applied and all that fun stuff and they put me on "on call", so they want me to call-in every day to see if I'm needed and they said there is no such thing as guaranteed hours.

From the information given during the info session, I was expecting to get 17-20hr a week and work 5d/wk

Is this right? :(
 
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