Try this...maybe

[brownrodster]

It's insane to work off the clock at the beginning of your day so you can shorten the end of your day. You're still working the same amount of hours for less pay.

It's not insane. It will get the man off the clock earlier. Most people would rather start work earlier and get off at a decent time than work until 1900 and miss the kids baseball game.

That being said, I never come in early and sort my truck. I can't do it. I like to time it so I show up a minute or two before my start time. DO PCM, then sort my first shelf on the clock before I hit the road.

Clearly, if this man's coming in early to sort and prerecord stops is saving him huge amounts of time then his center does not have PAS/EDD yet.

A lot of guys do this because they hate the overtime and working late. They will gladly sacrifice some morning time so they have more evening time with their family. I happen to agree that it's BS to have us start so late in the morning when the ideal workload for us is 9.5 hours. I don't like getting him between 7-8 at night.

 

[soberups]

A lot of guys do this because they hate the overtime and working late. They will gladly sacrifice some morning time so they have more evening time with their family. I happen to agree that it's BS to have us start so late in the morning when the ideal workload for us is 9.5 hours. I don't like getting him between 7-8 at night.

I have no problem with the idea of a driver coming in early to sort through his truck and get everything set up for a more efficient day.

I simply do not understand why he would or should do this off of the clock.

You are doing work. You should be paid for that work. Its really that simple.

 

[JonFrum]

Let's all read together . . .

Article 17 --- Paid for Time
"All employees covered by this Agreement shall be paid for all time spent in service of the Employer. Rates of pay provided for by this Agreement shall be minimums. Time shall be computed from the time that the employee is ordered to report for work and registers in and until the employee is effectively released from duty. All time lost due to delays as a result of overloads or certificate violations involving federal, state or city regulations, which occur through no fault of the driver, shall be paid for by the Employer.

The Employer will not allow employees to work prior to their start time without appropriate compensation."

 

[bubsdad]

It is insane, because not only is he giving up the hour of overtime, he is taking work away from someone else. There is no reasonable argument for working off the clock before your start time. Go home tonight and ask your wife/husband if they would mind you coming home a little later if it meant a couple hundred more a week. The people who do this on a regular basis are always the first to complain when it becomes expected of them. If you don't want to do it all the time don't do it anytime.

 

[dannyboy]

i don't find it to be falsifying records i just

You are falsifying your time card there cupcake. And just like a drunk that refuses to acknowledge they have a problem, you refuse to see it for what it is. You are working off the clock, period.

We dont care what you feel about the situation, it is what it is, falsifying your time card. Period.

And I also find it interesting that a cup cake like you voluntarily violates the contract by working off the clock, then waves a grievance form around hiding behind the very contract you violated in the first place.

What a two faced bag of........(OK 9.5, this is one you wont have to edit.)

d

 

[City Driver]

it is what it is

 

[brownrodster]

It is insane, because not only is he giving up the hour of overtime, he is taking work away from someone else. .

Obvsiously this mans time away from work in the evening is more valuable to him than that overtime money or giving someone else more work to do. Therefore it's not insane.

I don't care if they are taking time away from other people. My only argument against coming in early and setting up your load is that most cover drivers will be destroyed when they try to do your route. I know one route where the driver comes in early and sets up his load and runs his ass off all day. I fail miserably most the time at his route.

 

[bubsdad]

Obvsiously this mans time away from work in the evening is more valuable to him than that overtime money or giving someone else more work to do. Therefore it's not insane.

I don't care if they are taking time away from other people. My only argument against coming in early and setting up your load is that most cover drivers will be destroyed when they try to do your route. I know one route where the driver comes in early and sets up his load and runs his ass off all day. I fail miserably most the time at his route.

OK, you win. If it's all about the punch out time, how about EVERY driver start 1 hour early? Off the clock, of course. That way EVERY driver can finish earlier. Noone should mind because the drivers will be happy they're getting home in time to watch Wheel of Fortune. Management will be pleased because their numbers will be great. All is good. Unreal.

 

[dannyboy]

What we have here is a justification of a means to get to the end we wish to see. Regardless of if the means is legal, right or not.

So using that same methodology when comparing that shooting of the doctor at the church, that shooting was justifiable.

After all, he was killing babies, so to prevent the killing of tens of thousands of babies, to kill just one man would be then justified.

You are using the same logic to work off the clock.

And your sup is allowing your falsification of your time card as well.

Justification for doing something wrong does not make it right, no matter how you try to sugar coat it.

d

 

[deepsouthmamaw]

I am the only driver in my ctr that does not go in early. We have drivers that go in 2 hrs early. Whats worse suposidly I am on the hit list I've been told (because I mess up their numbers). Could care less! Work safetly, efficiently and to the best of my ability. That is all that maters. In fact all the drivers are their now loading and I am at home in ac. I live 2 min from ctr. Our start time is 930 am. Morral of the story I always have the best preloader in ctr. My car is completly loaded when I get their and loader is always held accountable for his load. Normally by their 2nd month load gets really good. Then thats when they want to promote them to driver. They then get sent to driver school and come back to load untill they get promoted to driver. All of my preloaders have made it as drivers. Which is not the case for other preloaders.
mamaw

 

[brownrodster]

WhatAfter all, he was killing babies, so to prevent the killing of tens of thousands of babies, to kill just one man would be then justified.

You are using the same logic to work off the clock.

d

We are not talking about killing babies. We are talking about a guy showing up to work early and working off the clock so he can get done early. I don't do it. But I don't care if other people do it. It would be nice if UPS would not let those drivers do it. But I understand why some people would do it and do not hate them for it.

 

[dannyboy]

Rodster

you are missing the point. Wrong is wrong. Justify it to where it becomes right if you will, but it is still wrong.

Every one of us would love to be home each day by 5, but with our jobs, its not gonna happen. We knew it going into the job. And we took it anyway.

Working off the clock is wrong on a lot of different levels.

IF you mind or not is also not the issue, its still wrong.

d

 

[over9five]

(OK 9.5, this is one you wont have to edit.)

d

I don't know... You've been using the "c" word a lot.





Cup cake

 

[UPS Lifer]

This is one of the fallacies of the bonus system. I realize there are a lot of areas that either are not on bonus or just do not make bonus and this reasoning is hard to understand but a driver who earns bonus fallaciously believes that he/she is justified in working off the clock because the route is worth let's say 9.5 hours. If the driver can get it done in 8.0 hours then he/she got paid... so all is OK!

So skipping breaks or lunch or setting up the car is OK to this driver.

I really do not believe that this was the intent when bonus was started back in the earlier part of the 20th century. Unfortunately, it has morphed into that. Management turns a blind eye rationalizing just like the driver and THEN they begin to expect it. Drivers will take shortcuts. They will run, perform unsafe acts, and in some cases give poor service to their customers just to either get off earlier or make another buck or a combination of both.

I can speak from experience. I had a driver who was the highest producing driver in the entire region. He actually had family members take packages off his car and deliver them for him during peak. This is before we had helpers. His planned day at peak was between 15-17 hours and he was under 12 every day! I found out later he was like a paper boy throwing packages from the car to the front door!

Things changed in California when the lawsuits started. The state has tough laws when it comes to lunch time. The rest of the country should take heed.

There are other threads you could research that talk about this.

Bottom line - Drivers who follow the contract and use the methods as they are designed will give a consistent performance that is honest, can be measured and planned and is in the best interest of the company and our customers.

Here is a red flag - If a driver is under-allowed by more than .50 something is not kosher. Unfortunately, and why bonus can be fallacious is that we as management are geared to looking at performance problems and we ignore runners and gunners.

The problem is magnified though when the management team builds into their goals and plans for this type of driver performance based on dishonest performance standards.

 

[chopstic]

You cannot violate the contract by working off of the clock and then turn around and wave that same contract in your managements face every time they piss you off.

Is there really contract language prohibiting this behavior?

 

[bubsdad]

Is there really contract language prohibiting this behavior?

Umm yeah, Ever read it?

 

[dannyboy]

Chopstic, are you serious?

And this is the same type of person that has no clue as to cap N trade issues, until "dude, have you seen our electric bill?"

Chopstic, you are not to do work until you are on the clock. Period.

d

 

[chopstic]

I took a brief skim of the NMA, but didn't find it. I'm sure there is something to the effect of working off the clock. I wouldn't dispute that. But the way its worded can make all the difference. For example...... You have the right to remain silent if you are arrested, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to use that right. We always have the option to waive a specific right if we should so please. I guess I'm just curious to how the contract language is worded. I just got out of Law class so this junk is fresh on my mind, please take no offense to my post, I'm just curious, thats all

 

[JonFrum]

I took a brief skim of the NMA, but didn't find it. I'm sure there is something to the effect of working off the clock. I wouldn't dispute that. But the way its worded can make all the difference. For example...... You have the right to remain silent if you are arrested, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to use that right. We always have the option to waive a specific right if we should so please. I guess I'm just curious to how the contract language is worded. I just got out of Law class so this junk is fresh on my mind, please take no offense to my post, I'm just curious, thats all

Chopstic, scroll back to Post #23 in this Thread. Or read Contract Article 17.
- - - - -
Ayone who works off the clock is violating the Federal (and possibly State) Minimum Wage Law, at the very least. They are also falsifying their time card.

If the length of their workday, and the amount of their production, ends up in any reports, those reports are inaccurate, due to false data input.

Any cover driver or subsequent bid driver who does that route will find it impossible to "make the numbers" unless they too work off the clock.

Depending on the Pension and H & W contribution rules in the area, the benefit funds may be cheated out of about $14 for each unreported hour of work.

Anyone in the building can file a grievance to enforce Article 17 and put a stop to people working off the clock before their Start Time.

 

[City Driver]

if u are working off the clock and u get hurt u will be at the unemployment office