Ukrainians be like:
- Thread starter vantexan
- Start date
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Propaganda is necessary in war.
Be careful what you choose to believe.
Be careful what you choose to believe.
rod
Retired 23 years
BlackFriday
Please remove my account. This forum sucks.
Just look back at all the items trump got hammered for when he called it fake news that turned out to be true. The media is far left.
oldngray
nowhere special
And they never apologize for doing it. At most a stealth edit of old stories. Plus they will still try to link new stories to their old disproven lies.
AwashBwashCwash
Well-Known Member
You can't be serious.
In 2012-13 Ukraine's government made a series of reforms to help them get closer to EU membership. Russia responded by restricting trade with Ukraine, and offered Ukraine huge loans in exchange for orienting their economy back toward Russia. Ukraine did this, and then the protests started. These protests were heavily backed by the US (Victoria Nuland was the main operator, and there are recordings of her arranging the post-coup puppet government). The pro-Russian government fell and was replaced by Ukrainian nationalists. Ethnic Russians in the east of the country didn't accept the violent overthrow of the democratically elected president, and barricaded their cities and towns and declared independence. The Ukrainian govt sent militias (Azov, Pravij Sektor, etc) to crush the rebellion. They were quite successful until Russia intervened by invading south of Donetsk, opening up another front, The Ukrainians were defeated and withdrew. Meanwhile, Crimea (which is 90% ethnic Russian) voted to rejoin Russia, which protected Sevastopol, the Russian naval base in the Mediterranean. All this was back when Joe Biden was the Vice President and his son was smoking crack, sitting on the board of a Ukrainian gas company making $100k/month. The front lines have been static since then, with occasional shelling. The Ukrainian govt could stop all this by implementing the Minsk agreement with the separatists, and staying neutral to accommodate Russia's security concerns... but then the US military-industrial complex would lose out on a profitable market.
Ukraine in NATO poses a valid security risk for Russia.
Just like Soviet missiles in Cuba posed a threat to the United States during the 1960s. (Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis, etc.)
I don't know how anyone can intelligently look at the situation and say that Putin is wrong for doing what he's doing. Because if Mexico and China created an alliance overnight and China started setting up offensive military equipment and troops across the Rio Grande, you can bet your ass that the United States would intervene and put an end to it.
The U.S. is aggressively encircling Russia and China, toppling governments and setting up phony regimes left and right and now it's finally starting to catch up and Russia is putting their foot down. China will be next.
Here is the cold hard truth - the US government is beholden to war profiteers who have an MO of destabilizing foreign governments, using the CIA to spark color revolutions, and replacing them with American puppet regimes that can be more easily controlled. It's quite literally terrorism and economic imperialism. The US are the bad guys and have been since before you were even born.
newfie
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how kicking germany's ass about being whores for Putins oil and kicking thr EU's asses for not spending their committment of two percent on defense is weakening nato.
are you one of those liberals that believes being in bed with Russia and having no military makes you somehow stronger?
“…whores for Putin’s oil…”. That doesn’t make any sense. So tell me, if the entire world today put an embargo on all Russian oil, what would the oil market price shoot to?
You are essentially are talking out both ends of you love what the price of oil was three years ago and yet bemoan Russian oil of the time.
newfie
Well-Known Member
Ukraine is a soviergn country you can't just just invade someone because you think they're a threat. Just like you can't go shoot your neighbor because you think he may be a threat someday. You dont have right to dictate what goes on in your neighbors house and you dont have a right to demand the house next to you is either empty or has someone living in it that you like simply to keep you away from a neighbor you don't like on the other side of that house.
To make this argument you would have to ignore the other countries that Putin has already taken over in similar fashion for similar reasoning. Putin has displayed a pattern that is eerily similar to the Hitler playbook.
your mexico / canada example is not a good one. Nato does not sourround Russia. They are on the other side of that continent. a better example would be us dictating the politics of mexico because we dont like the country of Belize.
Putin has other options including diplomatic ones to Keep Nato' off his doorstep even offering financial investment offers to the Ukraine if they would stay neutral.
instead this action will put Nato on his doorstep and make him a pariah to the world.
Putin attacking another Country for any reason unprovoked should always be wrong.
the internal politics of your neighboring country can never be provocation.
If it becomes justification than every country that borders one with a different political belief is then fair game and the world will be caught up in endless war.
Last edited:
newfie
Well-Known Member
now you're spinning Bidens talking points. Ramp up the oil and Natural gas from the US which is what Trump offered to do back then to ween them from having to copulate the putin penis.
Instead the US is producing about 10 percent less oil this year despite better pricing due to the restrictive biden policies
The "violent" overthrow? Putin put in a puppet leader and the Ukrainians literally came out in the millions and demanded he resign. How many died in the overthrow? They were fighting Russian separatists before 2014. Putin came in 2014 to assist the seperatists. You seem to think that's his right to dominate a sovereign nation. It's what Ukrainians want, not Russians or the U.S., that matters. The majority want by far to be part of the EU and NATO. And the majority in Crimea wanting to be part of Russia? 65% of Crimeans are ethnic Russian. Another 12% are Tatars. As far as I'm concerned if Putin wants the Donbas and Crimea and a land bridge in between let him carve that off and leave. He wants all of it, wants to dominate Ukrainians who dared defy him, is willing to kill millions if necessary to achieve that. You seem to think that's perfectly acceptable. And your analogy about China in Mexico doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The Russians were trying to put nukes in Cuba to destroy the U.S. NATO does not have nukes or a large buildup of troops in Eastern Europe. It's about their protection from Russia, not aggression towards Russia. Mexico, Canada or anywhere else in the Western Hemisphere does not need China or Russia protecting them from the U.S. The Bay of Pigs was about Cuban nationals trying to retake their country with the help of the U.S. which failed miserably. The U.S. could've sent in their military at any time over the last 60 years but hasn't. Yeah, we've meddled in politics of many countries over the years. We were in a cold war with the Soviet Union and were trying to keep out the communists. Are you a communist sympathizer? Serious question.
Last edited:
AwashBwashCwash
Well-Known Member
You should tell that to the US government then. It's amazing how all of these "democratic protests" always pop up whenever we don't get our way.
Ghaddafi wants to get off the petrodollar and implement a gold standard banking system for Africa?
"Democratic protest" happens and he's killed by a mob.
Assad says no to the Israeli pipeline going through his country?
"Democratic protest" happens and partisans "advised" by US special forces attempt to overthrow him.
Ukrainian leadership reorients the economy towards Moscow?
"Democratic protest" happens and American puppet regime is installed and entire country is turned into a money laundering playground for Western elites.
I think I'm seeing a pattern. None of this is "internal politics" and none of it is "unprovoked." It only seems out of the blue to you because you are totally ignorant about the region. You have a double standard. You're ready to call out Russia as the aggressors but you're willing to overlook American aggression and the countless color revolutions we have funded and the many countries we have destabilized for the sake of expanding American hegemony at the cost of MILLIONS of lives.
It's funny how "sovereignty" applies in one case but apparently doesn't apply to the separatists who want to leave. The Ukraninan government certainly didn't buy into the sovereignty argument when they were shelling civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk and causing heavy casualties, where was your outrage then? Or do you only get outraged when the nearest screen tells you to?
I always know a discussion has reached abject pointlessness when people start playing Freud with world leaders and attributing motives.
"Putin wants to dominate Ukrainians who dared defy him" that is not a serious point of view.
Last edited:
Causing heavy casualties in the Donbas? The separatists were winning until Trump gave the Ukrainians weapons. Why do you think Putin is in there now? And the separatists are just that. The government in Kiev is the legitimate government. Hawaii can't up and secede tomorrow. Nor can any of our 50 states. Same principle holds true in Ukraine and other countries. The separatists don't have sovereignty. The casualties inflicted on them were of their own doing by rebelling and the Ukrainians suffered plenty too.
I've said numerous times the way the U.S. handled things in the past was wrong. Installing a strongman to run roughshod over a population to keep out communism blew up in their faces. China has made huge inroads in other countries by building infrastructure in exchange for access to commodities. We should've done the same. I've never said we're lilly white. But you're defending a maniac in Russia who's the root cause of nations wanting to join NATO. Which is their right and wouldn't be necessary if you didn't have the leader of a nuclear power opining about the glory days of the Soviet Union and wanting to bring it back. Instead of spending so much of their GDP on their military he ought to be building markets with the West and improving Russian lives. And he ought to have stepped down per the Russian constitution and enforced democracy. Instead he's an autocratic thug who you're defending. You're defending a dictator who has killed political opponents, journalists, even dissidents living abroad. So much so that you'd smear the U.S. as the ultimate evil instead of putting world destabilization right where it belongs, the autocracies of Russia and China. The U.S. isn't the problem. U.S. leaders taking money from China, Russia, and yes even Ukraine and others are the problem. Fix the rot in Washington, but ultimately that rot is there because of the insidious nature of China and Russia.
DriveInDriѵeOut
Inordinately Right
Democrats.
Lineandinitial
Legio patria nostra
Well Vol, don't expect anything from Biden to be timely or effective...
nypost.com
Zelensky pleads for US military aid, says if Biden acted sooner ‘there would not have been war’
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky thanked the US for the assistance it has already sent, and pleaded for additional American military aid for his besieged country a Senate source said.
nypost.com
Mattmac0912
Banned
Our government which is now a totalitarian regime is telling you to be paranoid about the Russians because of democracy. Remind me who was shutting down churches during the plannedemic putting the pastor in jail I think it was Trudeau
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
floridays
Well-Known Member
Todays answer is quite different than the one I would offer during Trumps presidency.
Actions produce consequences.
We are living in real time the consequences of Bidens day one energy policy.
Before you mention it, I am not speaking of the cancellation of keystone xl.
