ups labor relations.

705red

Browncafe Steward
Originally Posted by 705red
I would have to disagree, if the contract says sups will not work it means they will not work!
I don't disagree but if you have ten vacations, normally you have 5 call ins and or optionals the double shift log and your still short ten you call in drivers early.......The preload needs to get down....you still file multiple grievences.......don't you.??....why don't I use the language concerning a work stoppage to fire the employees that did not come in to work???.......That would be dumb!!.....but thats what you would do if you were me , using your thought process??


My only response to you on this issue would be kudos for you to go the extra mile to attempt to cover the work with union hourlies. However that never happens here, the attitude here is well maybe only a few sups will get caught so the bad out weighs the good. Now this is were the multiple grievances come from.

Lets be realistic! You cant fire someone for calling in under work stoppage, this in no way is an attempt to stop the work from getting done.
If the 9.5 language says you work 3 days of 9.5 you get double/triple time it means you get it.
I agree as long as its the dispatch and not poor methods....or the dreaded, extending personal time.


I will disagree here on the dispatch. I have no controls over the numbers that ups installs on my route. 3 years ago when i bid on this route and made bonus,i came off of it for 2 months so that ups could train a new hire. When i came back i did the route thesame way and i was now an hour over. Just a month ago they found that my package allotment time was off and then i was under an hour over for a week. Now im back upto just around 2 hours over and i do the route the same way i did 3 years ago.

I file 9.5s weekly, i even had a sup with me this last monday because i had an 8 hour request in, he double peddled with me, covered my 3 big pick ups and had another driver stop and take 20 stops off of me, for a 7.3 dispatch day and i worked 9.18 missing my sons first grade orientation night. Now if ups wont redo a time study on this than they can pay me the penalty. What would be the right business move here? Of course the time study would be compared to 4 to 5 hours of triple time per week.

Alot of language is clear like the above mentioned, so why dont you as the ups managemr just pay the employee for violating clear language without them having to file a grievance.
The language goes both ways.....do I kill every union employee for not following every method or rule??....again that would be dumb!!


Your the one that said the language is vague and i agree to a point. But when its a clear cut violation like 9.5 why must we file a grievance? Grievances should only come into play when ups says its not a violation and the union insists that it is.

After all is that not what a grievance is? A dispute between the employee and the company? If its brought to ups's attention why must we put it in a grievance?
Follow the grievence procedure and talk before anything goes to paper (labor 101.....your ocal needs to take notes!!)


But it shouldnt have to go to paper if its a clear cut violation! The only reason that language is in the contract is to intimidate the employee before it gets to paper. Have you looked at our new contract? Look up article 7 and see whats changed about the grievance procedure.
Now you have vague language, article 54 disciple " dishonesty" what exactly is dishonesty? Now this gets abused by management for a number of things, does it not? If you want to teach someone a lesson just fire them for dishonesty, and this way ups has plenty of time to pin point something dishonest.



If your guilty, you know it, if not, no worries!!
Dishonesty is to broad of a term.

You know, you just made my case about you and your local. You know with the technology at my disposal, I can terroize my employee's, but I don't, unless they will not listen to repeated instructions, I do care about people and UPS.

You might want to keep away from chicago than, at least for the next 5 years because here you still can not use technology to discipline an employee.

You don't !!....You do not do the right thing, its all black and white to you. You don't care if a customer needs a package that was misloaded by a union preloader in the wrong car!....I have no one in the area and to make the delivery before the customer closes and I have no choice but to have a mangement person p/u the package and shuttle it to another driver for the final delivery. You feel even though another teamster did not do there job, UPS should call in another driver at incredible cost to p.u and deliver that package. If I have another driver or another am air driver in the area, I have no problem moving it with a union member but its not always possible.

When you have preloaders starting later in the morning and playing catch up all morning to get the trucks loaded you will have mistakes. Humans are not perfect and occasionally will error, we all have not been through the brainwashing boot camps that they force you to go through.

Ups wants to save cost on the preload by pushing back start times, than now the package centers have to endure costs to either pick up misloads to deliver them or eat a missed and refund it to the customer. The problem here is ups does not operate as one! The preload has their budget and operating expense while the package centers have theirs, feeders. the unload etc. All of these operations need to be combined for the buildings this way you wont have one area under cutting another.

You also believe that if there is a snow storm we have no right to help make service to our customers, that is insane for you to think that way, you would have us go out of business with no flexibility.

I had 4 drivers earlier this year all get into minor accidents in our feburary snow stroms. We received 14 inches of snow in a matter of 6 to 8 hours, starting as we were on the way into work. However ups never once agreed with me to pull the drivers off of the street, even though fed ex and dhl were called back. You would rather service the customer in a snow storm than care about the well being of your employees. You did not see one grievance for sups working this day, you know why? They were not stupid enough to go out in it.

Any ways i had the accidents removed from the drivers reports throught the grievance procedure.

Should we fire every employee for every misload or out of sync??....of course not!!.....but you don't get it. Do you really think all the members on this board agree with you??....If they do, UPS and the Union is in deep trouble!!
Actually i have about 30 sorters on notice of termination for missorts, so they are trying to fire people here for this. Maybe you should ask the knuckleheads that are giving you inside information whats their thought process.

The best thing about being an american is that i can speak my mind and my opinion on issues like this. People can agree or disagree and that will not change my mindset, i dont post here to win people over or attempt to teamsterize others into becoming good ups teamsters. I come here and respond to posts were people are asking for help and i also like to see what changes are in our near future by seeing whats going on across this country within the company that i work for.

You come here and only post in threads that i have posted in! Do you know we have other discussion boards like ups talks, life after brown and lighten ups, this is were most of your humorous posts should be for a good laugh.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
I did not repond to this as much as I could have.....so you ask me what is dishonesty??.........If you have to ask, than there's a problem.

Im asking what is dishonesty under article 54! Which is a terminating offense. I have an idea/defintion of this dishonesty which differs from management. Did the employee while being dishonest benefit from this dishonesty?


You say the company uses this to teach someone a lesson and try's to pin point something dishonest on the person???........Lets see I will give you 3 dishonest acts that you would probably diagree with al three.....first, a driver brings back several packages and buries them with his pickups. They are found on a check in audit....the driver does not sheet them, does not put a service cross on them, does not call them in.....they were in his EDD. Is that dishonest in you mind, pobably not.......but it is.

I agrre to a point its dishonest, however is it worth firing a 10, 15 year employee over it on the first offense? I would say no and progressive discipline should be used, you should not crucify someone for the first offense.

example number 2, a driver goes off his area 5 miles to go home, takes his lunch and breaks oncehe gets home, drives back 5 miles to his area. It takes him tem ninutes to get home and ten to get back to his area. Dishonest? If he has been told not to do that, its dishonest.

I will agree with you if hes been told that he should start his lunch as he drives home. However what will happen to this employee if he/she gets into an accident while driving home on lunch? I know that we dont have anything written in stone about how far you are allowed to go off of route for lunch, but have you ever thought about telling this employee he cant travel that far? Have his wife pick him up if he needs to go home.

example number three, an employee takes his full lunch and breaks, than on his return to the building stops for a soda and is on his cell phone for ten to fifteen minutes, he does not code this time out. dishonest??....Why don't you give me some of the examples of management abusing dishonesty and I will give you my point of view. We may find that we disagree or agree more than we think.

A soda would make a good argument, but if he stops for a gatorade on a hot day because hes thirsty. Ups preaches hydration throughout the day to keep yourself safe. Now who was on the phone? ups sups or was it personal? Here you are speaking of a one time occasion, if so have a talk with him about using the cell phone on his time. I usually save my ten minute break whan im expecting a call back from a manager or the labor manager over a grievance this way i have a decent amount of time to talk with the person on my time.


Whats dishonest, a driver delivering 15 pieces going to abc roofing however he sheets them as 15 stops, now this is dishonest because hes benefiting by raising his planned day and more likely the bonus hes earning.

A driver thats knowingly padding an additional 10 miles to his route per day by adding the ten miles to his mileage at the end of the day.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
You know, you just made my case about you and your local. You know with the technology at my disposal, I can terroize my employee's, but I don't, unless they will not listen to repeated instructions

Be aware that there are two sides to that coin.

It is true that with the GPS, EDD and DIAD, you now have the tools to monitor and micromanage me as never before. You know where I am, what I have done, and how many I have left.

But if you want to start jacking me around...all I have to do is submit. I can simply turn my brain off....stop making smart decisions based upon my 14 years of experience and area knowledge...and do nothing but blindly, stupidly and robotically deliver the stops EXACTLY as you loaded them and EXACTLY according to how they are dispatched in EDD, following every single one of your methods EXACTLY.

You want 100%? I will give you 100%. You arent going to like 100%. I gurantee it.

Or, as an alternative, do you instead want me to continue to use the tools you have given me to make smart, cost-effective business decisons out there on route? I can do that too...but you had better think twice before using your technology against me every time you arent "happy" with my numbers. Because if you aren't happy now, you REALLY wont be happy if I shut my brain off and just start doing it "your" way.

With the technology you have placed at my disposal...I can terrorize my management team, but I dont, unless they will not listen to repeated instructions.
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by 705red
I would have to disagree, if the contract says sups will not work it means they will not work!
I don't disagree but if you have ten vacations, normally you have 5 call ins and or optionals the double shift log and your still short ten you call in drivers early.......The preload needs to get down....you still file multiple grievences.......don't you.??....why don't I use the language concerning a work stoppage to fire the employees that did not come in to work???.......That would be dumb!!.....but thats what you would do if you were me , using your thought process??



My only response to you on this issue would be kudos for you to go the extra mile to attempt to cover the work with union hourlies. However that never happens here, the attitude here is well maybe only a few sups will get caught so the bad out weighs the good. Now this is were the multiple grievances come from.
I do exactly what I said above, I would agree with you if what you tell me is accurate, I have no reason not to believe you, but in my case would you still file??

Lets be realistic! You cant fire someone for calling in under work stoppage, this in no way is an attempt to stop the work from getting done.
OK, I was going overboard on that one!!

If the 9.5 language says you work 3 days of 9.5 you get double/triple time it means you get it.
I agree as long as its the dispatch and not poor methods....or the dreaded, extending personal time.


I will disagree here on the dispatch. I have no controls over the numbers that ups installs on my route. 3 years ago when i bid on this route and made bonus,i came off of it for 2 months so that ups could train a new hire. When i came back i did the route thesame way and i was now an hour over. Just a month ago they found that my package allotment time was off and then i was under an hour over for a week. Now im back upto just around 2 hours over and i do the route the same way i did 3 years ago.

I file 9.5s weekly, i even had a sup with me this last monday because i had an 8 hour request in, he double peddled with me, covered my 3 big pick ups and had another driver stop and take 20 stops off of me, for a 7.3 dispatch day and i worked 9.18 missing my sons first grade orientation night. Now if ups wont redo a time study on this than they can pay me the penalty. What would be the right business move here? Of course the time study would be compared to 4 to 5 hours of triple time per week.
I agree the time study must be accurate or the management team must be willing to accept the overallowed and give the driver less work. I fight for accurate time studies. I will accept some overallowed on drivers in non DR areas if they are truly trying to service the customers by waiting for consignee to answer the door.


Alot of language is clear like the above mentioned, so why dont you as the ups managemr just pay the employee for violating clear language without them having to file a grievance.
The language goes both ways.....do I kill every union employee for not following every method or rule??....again that would be dumb!!


Your the one that said the language is vague and i agree to a point. But when its a clear cut violation like 9.5 why must we file a grievance? Grievances should only come into play when ups says its not a violation and the union insists that it is.
This is an intresting one, I recently had a driver file, but for the last 6 months he wanted the overtime, asked for it daily, never t/w me about lowering the dispatch and filed. That's not right. He did not follow the grievence procedure. He picks and chooses when he wants O/T, which is OK as long as he gives us notice, but to blind side me is wrong!!.....This is where I go look and just fired a driver that threatened a 9.5. We found him padding 15-20 miles a day.....I did not fire him using GPS, but it alerted me and I went and followed him. He is gone gone. 20 year driver.
I did not like to do it but he was a very cocky driver that thought no one could touch him.

After all is that not what a grievance is? A dispute between the employee and the company? If its brought to ups's attention why must we put it in a grievance?
Follow the grievence procedure and talk before anything goes to paper (labor 101.....your ocal needs to take notes!!)


But it shouldnt have to go to paper if its a clear cut violation! The only reason that language is in the contract is to intimidate the employee before it gets to paper. Have you looked at our new contract? Look up article 7 and see whats changed about the grievance procedure.
Violations happen on both sides everyday, I don't hand out paper for everything, I talk with the employyee to try and get them to change without discipline. Why don't you try it??.....It works where I'm from, then if there is repeated violations we get what we deserve. (file)
Now you have vague language, article 54 disciple " dishonesty" what exactly is dishonesty? Now this gets abused by management for a number of things, does it not? If you want to teach someone a lesson just fire them for dishonesty, and this way ups has plenty of time to pin point something dishonest.



Actually i have about 30 sorters on notice of termination for missorts, so they are trying to fire people here for this. Maybe you should ask the knuckleheads that are giving you inside information whats their thought process.
well yes I have preloaders on notice as well, but I give them ample opportunity to clean it up. what do you mean by the knucklehead comment??......I know alot of people in Metro and ILL district. I have friends that drivers, pkg and feeders some are union reps as well.


The best thing about being an american is that i can speak my mind and my opinion on issues like this. People can agree or disagree and that will not change my mindset, i dont post here to win people over or attempt to teamsterize others into becoming good ups teamsters. I come here and respond to posts were people are asking for help and i also like to see what changes are in our near future by seeing whats going on across this country within the company that i work for.
God bless America!!!


You come here and only post in threads that i have posted in! Do you know we have other discussion boards like ups talks, life after brown and lighten ups, this is were most of your humorous posts should be for a good laugh.
Thats not true, I answer peoples questions and concerns, I give sound advice as well. I surf the other boards and occasionally post. You got me going in July on the contract or you may never had heard from me. You will give your opinion and if I disagree I will post.
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
To me Dishonesty does not constitute if it only benefits the employee.
One example is an employee punching in another employee even though the person has not reported to work yet. This has happened on preloads and in hub sorts. The person punching in the other is not benefiting but its dishonesty.

I usually give a 10, 15 year employee one chance, not progressive disipline, one time documented on PCIS with a union rep,and that it. If he does it again I term the individual for dishonesty.

My stance is a driver can't drive off area, he takes his lunch on area, with the price of fuel, no one is allowed to drive off area without permission from the manager.



quote=705red;392514]A soda would make a good argument, but if he stops for a gatorade on a hot day because hes thirsty. Ups preaches hydration throughout the day to keep yourself safe. Now who was on the phone? ups sups or was it personal? Here you are speaking of a one time occasion, if so have a talk with him about using the cell phone on his time. I usually save my ten minute break whan im expecting a call back from a manager or the labor manager over a grievance this way i have a decent amount of time to talk with the person on my time.
If the driver has no more personal time left, he needs permision to stop and buy a gatorade. Water somewhere on route is usually available. The cell phone use I refer to is personal time. You sound like your doing it right.


Whats dishonest, a driver delivering 15 pieces going to abc roofing however he sheets them as 15 stops, now this is dishonest because hes benefiting by raising his planned day and more likely the bonus hes earning.
Wow, we agree!!

A driver thats knowingly padding an additional 10 miles to his route per day by adding the ten miles to his mileage at the end of the day.[/quote]

We agree again!!.......WOW ! !
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Originally Posted by 705red
I would have to disagree, if the contract says sups will not work it means they will not work!
I don't disagree but if you have ten vacations, normally you have 5 call ins and or optionals the double shift log and your still short ten you call in drivers early.......The preload needs to get down....you still file multiple grievences.......don't you.??....why don't I use the language concerning a work stoppage to fire the employees that did not come in to work???.......That would be dumb!!.....but thats what you would do if you were me , using your thought process??


My only response to you on this issue would be kudos for you to go the extra mile to attempt to cover the work with union hourlies. However that never happens here, the attitude here is well maybe only a few sups will get caught so the bad out weighs the good. Now this is were the multiple grievances come from.
I do exactly what I said above, I would agree with you if what you tell me is accurate, I have no reason not to believe you, but in my case would you still file??


If you have made an effort like you stated you have and its obviously able to be verified, as in a steard was there when calls were made than no i would not file.

Lets be realistic! You cant fire someone for calling in under work stoppage, this in no way is an attempt to stop the work from getting done.
OK, I was going overboard on that one!!


If the 9.5 language says you work 3 days of 9.5 you get double/triple time it means you get it.
I agree as long as its the dispatch and not poor methods....or the dreaded, extending personal time.

I will disagree here on the dispatch. I have no controls over the numbers that ups installs on my route. 3 years ago when i bid on this route and made bonus,i came off of it for 2 months so that ups could train a new hire. When i came back i did the route thesame way and i was now an hour over. Just a month ago they found that my package allotment time was off and then i was under an hour over for a week. Now im back upto just around 2 hours over and i do the route the same way i did 3 years ago.

I file 9.5s weekly, i even had a sup with me this last monday because i had an 8 hour request in, he double peddled with me, covered my 3 big pick ups and had another driver stop and take 20 stops off of me, for a 7.3 dispatch day and i worked 9.18 missing my sons first grade orientation night. Now if ups wont redo a time study on this than they can pay me the penalty. What would be the right business move here? Of course the time study would be compared to 4 to 5 hours of triple time per week.
I agree the time study must be accurate or the management team must be willing to accept the overallowed and give the driver less work. I fight for accurate time studies. I will accept some overallowed on drivers in non DR areas if they are truly trying to service the customers by waiting for consignee to answer the door.

Alot of language is clear like the above mentioned, so why dont you as the ups managemr just pay the employee for violating clear language without them having to file a grievance.
The language goes both ways.....do I kill every union employee for not following every method or rule??....again that would be dumb!!

Your the one that said the language is vague and i agree to a point. But when its a clear cut violation like 9.5 why must we file a grievance? Grievances should only come into play when ups says its not a violation and the union insists that it is.
This is an intresting one, I recently had a driver file, but for the last 6 months he wanted the overtime, asked for it daily, never t/w me about lowering the dispatch and filed. That's not right. He did not follow the grievence procedure. He picks and chooses when he wants O/T, which is OK as long as he gives us notice, but to blind side me is wrong!!.....This is where I go look and just fired a driver that threatened a 9.5. We found him padding 15-20 miles a day.....I did not fire him using GPS, but it alerted me and I went and followed him. He is gone gone. 20 year driver.
I did not like to do it but he was a very cocky driver that thought no one could touch him.


If the driver has not told management that he wants his ot reduced and i file for him the 1st grievance is his official warning and he will not be paid his penalty pay. But if it happens again he is than entitled to penalty pay.
After all is that not what a grievance is? A dispute between the employee and the company? If its brought to ups's attention why must we put it in a grievance?
Follow the grievence procedure and talk before anything goes to paper (labor 101.....your ocal needs to take notes!!)

But it shouldnt have to go to paper if its a clear cut violation! The only reason that language is in the contract is to intimidate the employee before it gets to paper. Have you looked at our new contract? Look up article 7 and see whats changed about the grievance procedure.
Violations happen on both sides everyday, I don't hand out paper for everything, I talk with the employyee to try and get them to change without discipline. Why don't you try it??.....It works where I'm from, then if there is repeated violations we get what we deserve. (file)


Here i have several ulps im preparing to file because ups has pulled grievants into the office without union stewards to discuss their grievance and ask them to take it back. This is a serious offense as you know and is illegal. Thats why im not big on the employee going in alone before hand to discuss their issue. I would like a steward to be there to stop the intimidation in the first place.
Now you have vague language, article 54 disciple " dishonesty" what exactly is dishonesty? Now this gets abused by management for a number of things, does it not? If you want to teach someone a lesson just fire them for dishonesty, and this way ups has plenty of time to pin point something dishonest.


Actually i have about 30 sorters on notice of termination for missorts, so they are trying to fire people here for this. Maybe you should ask the knuckleheads that are giving you inside information whats their thought process.
well yes I have preloaders on notice as well, but I give them ample opportunity to clean it up. what do you mean by the knucklehead comment??......I know alot of people in Metro and ILL district. I have friends that drivers, pkg and feeders some are union reps as well.



Its obvious that someone that knows me is giving you information some right and some wrong. Like in your previous post you said that some hourlies dont like me and that is correct. They dont like me because i tell them to get off the dock in the morning because they are taking money away from the ptime preloaders. And i know who these people are, but if their jobs were on the line they would have no problem voting for me. Our steward elections are coming up here again and i look forward to seeing the totals. This is how you can judge how your doing, but at the same time i wouldnt be to upset if i got upset and was removed as a steward. I could just go back to being an employee without all of the headaches that go with being a steward.
The best thing about being an american is that i can speak my mind and my opinion on issues like this. People can agree or disagree and that will not change my mindset, i dont post here to win people over or attempt to teamsterize others into becoming good ups teamsters. I come here and respond to posts were people are asking for help and i also like to see what changes are in our near future by seeing whats going on across this country within the company that i work for.
God bless America!!!


You come here and only post in threads that i have posted in! Do you know we have other discussion boards like ups talks, life after brown and lighten ups, this is were most of your humorous posts should be for a good laugh.



Thats not true, I answer peoples questions and concerns, I give sound advice as well. I surf the other boards and occasionally post. You got me going in July on the contract or you may never had heard from me. You will give your opinion and if I disagree I will post.

To the tune of 198 disagreed posts? Cmon bloody you come on here looking to see what i have posted new, and thats fine if you debate the issues like you have over the last day or so. This is were we learn from each other, not me meeting you at humboldt park to duke it out! I have been to this park and had no trouble making it out in the past. Though it is a rough area, i worked at north and damen for a while.
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
A soda would make a good argument, but if he stops for a gatorade on a hot day because hes thirsty. Ups preaches hydration throughout the day to keep yourself safe. Now who was on the phone? ups sups or was it personal? Here you are speaking of a one time occasion, if so have a talk with him about using the cell phone on his time. I usually save my ten minute break whan im expecting a call back from a manager or the labor manager over a grievance this way i have a decent amount of time to talk with the person on my time.


Whats dishonest, a driver delivering 15 pieces going to abc roofing however he sheets them as 15 stops, now this is dishonest because hes benefiting by raising his planned day and more likely the bonus hes earning.

A driver thats knowingly padding an additional 10 miles to his route per day by adding the ten miles to his mileage at the end of the day.

Be aware that there are two sides to that coin.
You are correct, so why not try to get along!
It is true that with the GPS, EDD and DIAD, you now have the tools to monitor and micromanage me as never before. You know where I am, what I have done, and how many I have left.
That does not mean I want to terroize you, If you do your job, we probably get along just fine.

But if you want to start jacking me around...all I have to do is submit. I can simply turn my brain off....stop making smart decisions based upon my 14 years of experience and area knowledge...and do nothing but blindly, stupidly and robotically deliver the stops EXACTLY as you loaded them and EXACTLY according to how they are dispatched in EDD, following every single one of your methods EXACTLY.
Look, I don't abuse technology. I get along with about 90-95% of the drivers that work for me. I don't go after them. I have better thing to do. I only give a driver attention if he is begging for it. I used the example of a driver that was very cocky, thought he could not be touched, run high over allowed, threatenen a 9.5 grievence, I noticed using GPS that he appeared to be padding miles. I followed him for a few days and he was adding 15-20 miles a day, he no longer works for UPS.

You want 100%? I will give you 100%. You arent going to like 100%. I gurantee it.
An honest days work for an honest days pay!!...that's fair isn't it??

Or, as an alternative, do you instead want me to continue to use the tools you have given me to make smart, cost-effective business decisons out there on route? I can do that too...but you had better think twice before using your technology against me every time you arent "happy" with my numbers. Because if you aren't happy now, you REALLY wont be happy if I shut my brain off and just start doing it "your" way.
Of course I want you to do the right thing. You don't strike me as the type of person that I would ever have a problem with.

With the technology you have placed at my disposal...I can terrorize my management team, but I dont, unless they will not listen to repeated instructions.
Sure you could and no one wins, thats not how I run the business nor do allow it from those that report to me.
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by 705red
/
My only response to you on this issue would be kudos for you to go the extra mile to attempt to cover the work with union hourlies. However that never happens here, the attitude here is well maybe only a few sups will get caught so the bad out weighs the good. Now this is were the multiple grievances come from.

I do exactly what I said above, I would agree with you if what you tell me is accurate, I have no reason not to believe you, but in my case would you still file??


If you have made an effort like you stated you have and its obviously able to be verified, as in a steard was there when calls were made than no i would not file.
Well, we can agree on some thing, maybe more than we think. Yes a steward would be notified and a double shift log is used, along with a log for drivers that want extra work for preload.




I file 9.5s weekly, i even had a sup with me this last monday because i had an 8 hour request in, he double peddled with me, covered my 3 big pick ups and had another driver stop and take 20 stops off of me, for a 7.3 dispatch day and i worked 9.18 missing my sons first grade orientation night. Now if ups wont redo a time study on this than they can pay me the penalty. What would be the right business move here? Of course the time study would be compared to 4 to 5 hours of triple time per week.
I agree the time study must be accurate or the management team must be willing to accept the overallowed and give the driver less work. I fight for accurate time studies. I will accept some overallowed on drivers in non DR areas if they are truly trying to service the customers by waiting for consignee to answer the door.



Alot of language is clear like the above mentioned, so why dont you as the ups managemr just pay the employee for violating clear language without them having to file a grievance.
The language goes both ways.....do I kill every union employee for not following every method or rule??....again that would be dumb!!


Your the one that said the language is vague and i agree to a point. But when its a clear cut violation like 9.5 why must we file a grievance? Grievances should only come into play when ups says its not a violation and the union insists that it is.
This is an intresting one, I recently had a driver file, but for the last 6 months he wanted the overtime, asked for it daily, never t/w me about lowering the dispatch and filed. That's not right. He did not follow the grievence procedure. He picks and chooses when he wants O/T, which is OK as long as he gives us notice, but to blind side me is wrong!!.....This is where I go look and just fired a driver that threatened a 9.5. We found him padding 15-20 miles a day.....I did not fire him using GPS, but it alerted me and I went and followed him. He is gone gone. 20 year driver.
I did not like to do it but he was a very cocky driver that thought no one could touch him.



If the driver has not told management that he wants his ot reduced and i file for him the 1st grievance is his official warning and he will not be paid his penalty pay. But if it happens again he is than entitled to penalty pay.
That's fair but why file the first one, t/w management with the hourly. Than if its not fixed, file.

After all is that not what a grievance is? A dispute between the employee and the company? If its brought to ups's attention why must we put it in a grievance?
Follow the grievence procedure and talk before anything goes to paper (labor 101.....your ocal needs to take notes!!)


But it shouldnt have to go to paper if its a clear cut violation! The only reason that language is in the contract is to intimidate the employee before it gets to paper. Have you looked at our new contract? Look up article 7 and see whats changed about the grievance procedure.
Violations happen on both sides everyday, I don't hand out paper for everything, I talk with the employyee to try and get them to change without discipline. Why don't you try it??.....It works where I'm from, then if there is repeated violations we get what we deserve. (file)


Here i have several ulps im preparing to file because ups has pulled grievants into the office without union stewards to discuss their grievance and ask them to take it back. This is a serious offense as you know and is illegal. Thats why im not big on the employee going in alone before hand to discuss their issue. I would like a steward to be there to stop the intimidation in the first place.
I would never do that, I would always bring in a union rep for the employee if I am documenting disciple on pcis, unless the employee does not want a union rep. ( he would sign a waiver)
Now you have vague language, article 54 disciple " dishonesty" what exactly is dishonesty? Now this gets abused by management for a number of things, does it not? If you want to teach someone a lesson just fire them for dishonesty, and this way ups has plenty of time to pin point something dishonest.



Actually i have about 30 sorters on notice of termination for missorts, so they are trying to fire people here for this. Maybe you should ask the knuckleheads that are giving you inside information whats their thought process.
well yes I have preloaders on notice as well, but I give them ample opportunity to clean it up. what do you mean by the knucklehead comment??......I know alot of people in Metro and ILL district. I have friends that drivers, pkg and feeders some are union reps as well.



Its obvious that someone that knows me is giving you information some right and some wrong. Like in your previous post you said that some hourlies dont like me and that is correct. They dont like me because i tell them to get off the dock in the morning because they are taking money away from the ptime preloaders. And i know who these people are, but if their jobs were on the line they would have no problem voting for me. Our steward elections are coming up here again and i look forward to seeing the totals. This is how you can judge how your doing, but at the same time i wouldnt be to upset if i got upset and was removed as a steward. I could just go back to being an employee without all of the headaches that go with being a steward.

I am not stalking you. I have heard of you but have never asked specifically anyone I know about you. It was just people talking.
I never refer to conversations on this board.


The best thing about being an american is that i can speak my mind and my opinion on issues like this. People can agree or disagree and that will not change my mindset, i dont post here to win people over or attempt to teamsterize others into becoming good ups teamsters. I come here and respond to posts were people are asking for help and i also like to see what changes are in our near future by seeing whats going on across this country within the company that i work for.
God bless America!!!


You come here and only post in threads that i have posted in! Do you know we have other discussion boards like ups talks, life after brown and lighten ups, this is were most of your humorous posts should be for a good laugh.




To the tune of 198 disagreed posts? Cmon bloody you come on here looking to see what i have posted new, and thats fine if you debate the issues like you have over the last day or so. This is were we learn from each other, not me meeting you at humboldt park to duke it out! I have been to this park and had no trouble making it out in the past. Though it is a rough area, i worked at north and damen for a while.
I told you, you really pissed me off in July about the negotiations with your local. I have been giving it to you ever since, but I have learned to understand some of your anger, but I think you can learn that there are two sides and working together does work better than a constant uphill battle. I don't like the 16,000 grievences. I grew up near the park, I was having fun with you there!!....I would not stoop to that level....it was funny though, you have to admit.
 
M

mildsurfer

Guest
Why don't you give me some of the examples of management abusing dishonesty and I will give you my point of view. We may find that we disagree or agree more than we think.
How about ft sup falsifying our time card? is that dishonesty? and what about falsifying our miles to cut our bonuses? is that dishonesty? I can go on and on with mgnt tricks that they pull to improve their numbers. one more thing how about reducing gradually our time allowance to eliminate the bonuses is that dishonesty? want more ?.....

So don't come here and type that everything that you do is honest
 

1989

Well-Known Member
How about ft sup falsifying our time card? is that dishonesty? and what about falsifying our miles to cut our bonuses? is that dishonesty? I can go on and on with mgnt tricks that they pull to improve their numbers. one more thing how about reducing gradually our time allowance to eliminate the bonuses is that dishonesty? want more ?.....

So don't come here and type that everything that you do is honest


You are right bonus should be eliminated altogether.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
That's fair but why file the first one, t/w management with the hourly. Than if its not fixed, file.


This way we have documented proof of the warning. I know it might be hard for you to believe but management has lied in the past about not having any knowledge of this.

I am not stalking you. I have heard of you but have never asked specifically anyone I know about you. It was just people talking.
I never refer to conversations on this board.


I hope you have heard good things. Ever hear of any woman talking about me?
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
How about ft sup falsifying our time card? is that dishonesty? Yes and what about falsifying our miles to cut our bonuses? is that dishonesty?Yes I can go on and on with mgnt tricks that they pull to improve their numbers. one more thing how about reducing gradually our time allowance to eliminate the bonuses is that dishonesty? I don't understand what you mean?? I personally don't like bonus!!want more ?..... That's up to you ! !

So don't come here and type that everything that you do is honest
I don't know where this is coming from, but clearly you have not followed this thread. i speak for myself not for all management, dishonestly should be handled the same with management than with non management!! It should not be tolerated ! ..........I have no love for dishonest management people!!.........They need to go ! !
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
You are right bonus should be eliminated altogether.
The company will never put bonus back into a package center that has voted it out. ( I have never seen or heard that they have ). I don't like bonus, it temps people to do the wrong things!!
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
That's fair but why file the first one, t/w management with the hourly. Than if its not fixed, file.


This way we have documented proof of the warning. I know it might be hard for you to believe but management has lied in the past about not having any knowledge of this.
I believe you!!

I am not stalking you. I have heard of you but have never asked specifically anyone I know about you. It was just people talking.
I never refer to conversations on this board.

I hope you have heard good things. Ever hear of any woman talking about me?
Mostly, that your a pain in the _ _ _ ! ! That doesn't surprise you does it???.....no women yet, but do you want me to ask???.........probably best that I don't but I'll let you know if I do hear anything...........I have never brought you up in conversation with anyone I know back there. Like I said it was just things I heard in conversation.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Im the same way on here that i am in person. I have nothing to hide so i continue to post knowing that people know who i am. Im actually quite funny in person and enjoy laughing all the time. I do have a problem with cursing and it does get the best of me.
 

Bloodybrown

Well-Known Member
Im the same way on here that i am in person. I have nothing to hide so i continue to post knowing that people know who i am. Im actually quite funny in person and enjoy laughing all the time. I do have a problem with cursing and it does get the best of me.

Well, people are not always what they seem to be,( i'm in that mix as well } we would probably get along just fine, except for an occasional spat.........well maybe more than occasional???..........you will probably win your election, but you never know who will be voting and how often in chicago:happy-very: Have a good week ! ! It's almost 4 am, I need some coffee!!!
 
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