What is L.P. thinking?

tieguy

Banned
If that were the case jails would be over run by ups sups :happy-very:

Monavie this is a debate between various members of the brown cafe community , who have different perspectives on the issue. We are passionate in our opinions and thats all good.
Danny and Red have been shop stewards for a long time and have their experiences and opinions. I actually have a lot of experience dealing with theft issues , panel decisions and the support of law enforcement with these types of cases. My arguing the merits of this case should at least afford me the respect that I at least have that perspective based on similar cases I have seen.

Just because I take a position that you may disagree with does not afford you the right to jump in and start firing flames at me. If you have something more then a dislike for management to add to the debate then feel free.

If you don't like to read opposing opinions then the best thing you can is either avoid this thread or find a site to join where everyone thinks exactly like you do.
 

MonavieLeaker

Bringin Teh_Lulz
Monavie this is a debate between various members of the brown cafe community , who have different perspectives on the issue. We are passionate in our opinions and thats all good.
Danny and Red have been shop stewards for a long time and have their experiences and opinions. I actually have a lot of experience dealing with theft issues , panel decisions and the support of law enforcement with these types of cases. My arguing the merits of this case should at least afford me the respect that I at least have that perspective based on similar cases I have seen.

Just because I take a position that you may disagree with does not afford you the right to jump in and start firing flames at me. If you have something more then a dislike for management to add to the debate then feel free.

If you don't like to read opposing opinions then the best thing you can is either avoid this thread or find a site to join where everyone thinks exactly like you do.

My apoligies...No hard feelings :happy2:
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
steve

you are right, 10 pages of deep discussions on a subject that both sides are very passionate about, but yet nothing that would warrant moderation by the mods.

that is the essence of what bc is. the exchange of information without attacks upon another person (flaming) instead of attacking the view held.

tie, i too would love more information. as i said, you could be more right than wrong, or the opposite as well.

d
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
10 pages of (for the most part) insightful, thoughtful discussion which exposes the beliefs and convictions of the posters and presented in a mature, intelligent fashion. d is right, that is the essence of this forum and is one reason I am nearing 2,500 posts in one year (either that or I need to get a life).

I still contend this case will not see a courtroom as it will be plea bargained.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
they cant, unless they also brought those lesser charges against him.

you cant just arrest someone, then decide well we dont have enough to charge him on that charge, so we will plead to a lesser charge that we didnt think about.

what would be a lesser charge to possession?

d
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
they cant, unless they also brought those lesser charges against him.

you cant just arrest someone, then decide well we dont have enough to charge him on that charge, so we will plead to a lesser charge that we didnt think about.

what would be a lesser charge to possession?

d

d, I am not that familiar with our criminal justice system so I would not know off hand what a lesser charge would be. I just have a gut feeling that this will be negotiated between the lawyers and will not see a courtroom.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
d, I am not that familiar with our criminal justice system so I would not know off hand what a lesser charge would be. I just have a gut feeling that this will be negotiated between the lawyers and will not see a courtroom.
We already refused the plea bargain at the last court date, they wanted him to plead guilty to a mideameanor theft charge.


Tie you had asked if i talked to the other theives and the answer is no, they waived their union rights to representation and to were hand cuffed and took away in a police car.

The next court date is a month from today on nov, 18th.
 

stevetheupsguy

sʇǝʌǝʇɥǝndsƃnʎ
steve

you are right, 10 pages of deep discussions on a subject that both sides are very passionate about, but yet nothing that would warrant moderation by the mods.

that is the essence of what bc is. the exchange of information without attacks upon another person (flaming) instead of attacking the view held.

tie, i too would love more information. as i said, you could be more right than wrong, or the opposite as well.

d

I totally agree, except, you guys have said everything there is to say on this matter. Guilty, Innocent, Stupid and Naive; It's all there. Now we just have to wait and see the verdict/outcome so we can have 10 more pages, (maybe 11 after this post), of rebuttal. Have a good "discussion". I'll still sit here and read along.
 

tieguy

Banned
We already refused the plea bargain at the last court date, they wanted him to plead guilty to a mideameanor theft charge.


Tie you had asked if i talked to the other theives and the answer is no, they waived their union rights to representation and to were hand cuffed and took away in a police car.

The next court date is a month from today on nov, 18th.

Red, you say we? Are you representing him in court too?
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
We as in the employee, myself and the sttorney tie, and yes i will be at court with him until the process is completed, gets me out of delivering during peak.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
in reds case it would be volunteering. it happens you know, when you believe deeply about something and you want to see justice done?

d
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Danny is right its on my own time, the union will get me the day off by requesting the day for me, but it would not be fair to the other members if the union would waste their dues money on paying me for the day.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Good for you Red. If the guy is truly innocent and from what I have read I believe he is, then he should have all the representation that he deserves. And he should stick to his guns. If I were in his shoes I would not accept a lesser plea either (based on the information presented). Was he to trusting of his co-workers? Yes, probably. It's doubtful that he will do this again.
 

705red

Browncafe Steward
Well today was his court date and after spending 15 minutes at court the case was continued to dec 3rd. Nothing really happened at all, just some legal mumbo jumbo so until dec,3rd.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
A ptime employee was terminated and charged with felony theft for a cell phone they accused him of stealing. The employee spent several days in jail until he could get bonded out. At the low level the company would not listen to reason so the case was sent to panel.

At panel we proved that the employee did not steal the phone. He is a bulk driver that drives a mule with the train carts behind him, he only moves oversize packages. He does not unload package cars, trailers etc.

The company stated that he is in possesion of the phone so he stole it. The employee told lp, his bosses, and labor that he bought the phone in the parking lot one night. an employee approached him and several other employees trying to sell a blackberry for $300, they said no way. The employee said cmon i really need money for my family.

So my guy says i will give you a $100, the seller opened up the phone took out his sim card and handed the phone to my guy. What does my guy than do? He registers the phone with ups and receives a property pass.

When he was questioned about it he told ups that he had bought the phone from so and so. This other employee had been fired 3 weeks before for stealing cell phones.

He won his job back at panel and has been back to work for a couple of weeks.

Well the employee asked me if i could come to court with him today so, i took the day, on my own time to go and explain if needed. Ups is pushing the states attorney to continue this case, the states attorney offered him a plea down to guilty on a misdeamenor theft charge. We discussed it and agreed that he is not guilty of the charges that he is charged with.

He now has a trial date set for the middle of november, and i will be at this date and any other dates to assist this employee from wrongful prosecution. I am also filing a complaint with Lisa Madigan, Dick Devine and the ill attorney generals office for allowing ups to waste our tax dollars!

Red, your local should provide access to attorneys both criminal and civil?

Why are you getting involved? Where is his attorney? Hopefully you are NOT giving him legal advice. Under some jurisdictions, this could be a violation of law.

You keep saying "WE" refused this, "WE" said that.

It makes no difference where he bought the phone or from who. Recieving or purchasing stolen merchandise is still against the law. If he didnt know it was stolen, he should have, NOBODY buys a blackberry in parking lots and thinks it legitimate, unless your Tony Soprano.

In this case, there had to be some form of investigation by the district attorneys office to establish a premise for a charge, UPS doesnt set charges.

There had to be enough Prima facie evidence to make an initial case against this young man. Ignornace is never a logical defense.

I understand he is my teamster brother, but I for one have no sympathy for his situation. A person would have to be a complete idiot to walk into shipping company parking lot after a shift, see a former employee known to have stolen merchandise from the same company, get solicited for a phone at a 75% discount with no warranty, plan or insurance, pay for it, walk back into the same company and face the scrutiny of UPS security looking at a part time employee with a $500 dollar phone with a $9.50 an hour pay rate and ask for a property pass.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

My next question is this, Why hasnt the guy who allegedly sold him the phone been charged as well??

If your "pet project" is telling the truth, then he should have already fingered the guys name to the district attorney and this guy arrested and charged with selling stolen merchandise, a crime by the way, UPS would be all OVER.

Now, if your man doesnt want to finger anyone, then shame on him, good luck on the conviction.

A UPS panel case will have no bearing on this case in court. It lacks merit, investigation, or legal premise.

No union contract can violate STATE LAW. So, in other words, if the panel heard the case and determined he was eligible to return to work, yet, the circumstances were still a violation of State Law, then the charges can continue despite returning to work.

Internal theft is a huge problem at our company. I hate it like the next guy.

We had a case last year where a driver was always showing claims on route in the "tens" of thousands of dollars each month. After a lengthy investigation and his house raided, the company found over 50K of merchandise in his home.

He was a "nice" guy too.

He asked everyone for help, we had no choice but the let the law of the land deal with him.

Theft no matter how small is a big deal.

All I can say is I hope his attorney, not you, provide him the proper legal advice and he learns a valuable lesson from the experience.
:dead:
 
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