Where is the posting about the Div. manager memo wanting old drivers forced out?

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by helenofcalifornia, Aug 4, 2011.

  1. helenofcalifornia

    helenofcalifornia Well-Known Member

    I am not exactly sure of the facts but something to that effect. The manager was from Nor Cal. Any help would be appreciated.
  2. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    I do not know about Nor Cal.
    If they want to force this old skinny fart in Texas out,
    they better have a good team of mules and a stick of dynamite.
    I will leave on my terms and at my choosing.

  3. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Dude, dont invest your time into rumours...

    talk like this is considered "out of school" and is useless. While there is no doubt that the company would like to see its senior drivers walk out the door as that increases profits, I dont believe you will find any usefull document like this to go anywhere with.

    People say and do dumb things all the time. Managers are no exception. Do your job correctly, dont cheat and leave the detective work to professionals.

  4. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    First of all, the "dude" looks like a lady because she is a lady.

    Second, there was a thread here a short time ago about an e-mail to a center manager directing him to "thin the herd" by targeting older drivers. This e-mail had been left where a few of the drivers were able to read it and make copies of it.
  5. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

  6. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Thanks, Over. I was looking for it, too.
  7. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Thank Dave. I only found it because I searched "thin the herd email".
  8. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    FAIL !

    First of all, that IS NOT what the letter purported to say. The letter stated that "drivers overallowed by 2 hours would be thinned out"... there is NO MENTION of age in the suggestion and its the POSTER to leaps to the conclusion that it is AGE related. The poster goes on and on about age and illegality but has absolutely ZERO facts to base that opinion on.

    The fact that a driver in his center is running 2 hours overallowed and he is 53 years old means nothing. Too many people on this board want to play Perry Mason with language and this is another example of it.

    The letter is harmless and within the level of acceptance for running a business. The company has a right to run the business the way it wants to and if a comment is made "privately" between supervisors that suggests that they "target" overallowed drivers then whats the big deal?

    Are the routes accurately rated? (NO) Can drivers break standard doing the job correctly? (NO) Are the time studies currently in place fair and honest? (NO)

    But that doesnt mean anything. A fair days work for a fairs days pay is the principle we operate under. A physical observation is required to make this determination.

    I am a 21 year driver and I run 2 hours overallowed everyday and believe me, they say NOTHING TO ME. Yes, I am the senior steward of the region and a former executive officer of the Teamsters but first and foremost, I DO THE JOB THE WAY THEY WANT IT DONE and that means 2 hours in the hole. I am 52 years old.

    They have been on car with me and the more they ride, the more the numbers slide. The answer? They stay off car now.

    Do the job correctly.

    Look, its no secret that this company wants to rid itself of its high paid drivers. The cost is tremendous despite the sacrifices we all make on the road ( come home late, weather, pain, exhaustion, missing school events etc etc etc)

    We all sacrifice so many things for this company everyday that it justifies what we earn.

    I have said a million times before that the company would be better served bringing back incentive and paying us 1 hour of incentive at $32.50 than paying us 2 hours of overtime at $47.50 an hour.

    They want to speed us up? Pay us for it.

    This "letter" is worthless and hardly worth the time or investment in its contents. Its a harmless piece of nothing the poster tried to make into a huge piece of something.

    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  9. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    So THERE ! HelenDude!
  10. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    And I'm betting you're one of the BEST and most beloved of all union representatives too, with your condescending attitude. Must be a Democrat thing.

    Wow! 52 years old! How do you do it?

    Peace and the zing of a nitrous oxide shot.
  11. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    The best union reps are the ones who dont blow smoke up your rear end and deal from the top of the deck. There are plenty of bottom dealers in the ranks of business agents.

    Oh and by the way, your not suppose to drink the octane!

  12. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Oh, and I'll bet you're one of the best "non-smoke" blowers, too. Did I say anything about dealing from the top or bottom?

    You know, the few stewards, briefly I might add, that we had before I took over had your same attitude. Always had a chip on their shoulder. So, whenever there was a problem, there was a wall that was shut down immediately on the management side. You could always depend on a fight ensuing, PLUS, alot of deals made.

    When I took over, I had alot of diffusing to do to just try to calm management down so that we could, at least, talk like grownups. AND alot of deals to break.

    It got to where I could go in before work to talk about problems or after work to do the same, in fact, I think some looked forward to it. But I did so in a spirit of calmness and non-demeaning. I didn't have any problem talking to a Supe, center manager, Division M, Labor M, District M or anybody they could throw in. I picture you going into a meeting with an AK-47. Am I wrong? Prove it.

    Answer my inquiries without calling me "Dude" or "brainwashed by the Republicans". I said before, I'm not committed. That is, neither Dem or Rep or Tea or anything but you have to pin the demise of the Concorde and all the other world's problems on the Republicans.

    I'm bettin you flake this off too.

    Peace and "nitrous oxide shot" is not a drink, it's a power enhancer that's injected or "shot" into an engine's fuel system. Geez.
  13. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    OCTANE snuffer,

    First of all, your first mistake is to compare yourself to me. While I can appreciate your stepping up to the challenge of standing up for your fellow brother, you will need to walk more than a mile to fill my shoes, sonny.

    I sat on two negotiation committees in 1992, then again in 1997. I have been a business agent for two terms (6 yrs), I was an executive officer for 2 terms. Ive negotiated hundreds of cases and close to 100 arbitrations in 21 years. I have consulted with many locals across this country and with the International.

    When your resume comes close to this, then you can carry my briefcase.

    As for your style vs. my style, its pretty simple. It comes down to respect. In my area, (So Cal.) I am a respected negotiator. There is no need to raise my voice, slam my fist, wall paper the center manager's office or shout out front as if I had nothing better to do.

    Those kind of guys have an expiration date on their backs. We just lost one such guy. Briefcase carrying driver, wall papering the center manager's office daily, shouting matches and influencing his coworkers negatively. For a few years he rejected advice and thought he had it all figured out. He was wrong. He just lost his case in arbitration. A simple nothing case that 99.9 times out of a hundred the company handles behind closed doors with a couple of apologies. But in this case, UPS dug in. HE was forced into arbitration, the local provided him the best case and the term was upheld. Without releasing his personal info, I can say that his case was lost because he couldnt leave things alone and let the local handle his case.

    He had a chance to accept a return with a "deal" and passed because he felt he was the stronger party. He was wrong. He consulted with me and I gave him the best advice possible and placed the "deal" in front of him.

    This "deal" was constructed between myself, UPS labor and the Division Manager. Anyone else would have taken the deal and got back on the clock, but this guy was so consumed with personal importance, he chose to fight it out.

    He was only the second person in my history to turn down a deal, go to arbitration and lose. It wasnt my case and I wasnt a fan of his. I gave him the best option for him and his family. He chose his own fate.

    You see Racer, I get whatever I want out here in So Cal. There isnt a single division, regional or labor manager I dont know in California. Ive been up and down this entire state.

    Not every case can be settled, but thats what I try to accomplish without the hassles of local hearings, panels or arbitrations.

    As for injecting politics into this thread, I never do on Union discussion boards. But since YOU did, i will say that you stated you are committed to nothing, and I have to tell you that if you dont stand for something, then you dont matter to anything.

    Bandwagoners dont impress me. I stand my ground on every issue.

    As for blowing smoke? Maybe you havent read my posts throughly. I straight shoot and spare no one's feelings, so dude, I hope this helps you out.

  14. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Wow. I'm impressed.
  15. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    You should be, that's TOS, super steward !!!
  16. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    It's stubborn old guys like you that ups wants to keep forever.
  17. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    This is one bad as upser/I don't know what to think steward / new old school steward. If you ever want to talk I'm ready to listen.
  18. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    A true stewards steward.
  19. raceanoncr

    raceanoncr Well-Known Member

    Octane snuffer? What the hell does THAT mean?

    Wow! With all those medals on your chest, how do you even stand up?

    And, first of all, your first mistake is stating I compared myself to you. Quote me as to where I have ever done that. Come on, step up to the plate and don't spin this one either. Quote me.

    AND, I'll "need to walk more than a mile to fill YOUR shoes, sonny?" SONNY? Are you being facitious? Or trying to be funny? If you really think I'm one of these young pups that you can impress with your WalMart certificates, do you remember in another thread where I mentioned that I was drafted in 1967 (that's forced induction into the Army, in case you're too young to know) to go do some unspeakable things to men and families in the name of "defending freedom in America"? Let's see, that would make you how old in '67...oh, well, have your mommy do the math. If I would have known back then that part of "freedom in America" would mean California would turn into the most whacko, liberal, immoral, looney states in the WORLD, I would have probably said, "NO, I ain't goin".

    You have got to be one of the most arrogant, narcissistic individuals here and in CA. Please regale us with more of your accomplishments so that we can stand in awe, Oh Great One! Oh, you've been a business agent, steward, etc. Hmpf! With the experience that I have and the years I have, without going into all the chest-pounding as you have, I can say with all certainty that to become a steward, BA, IBT officer, all it really takes is for someone to pick a name out of a barrel of losers that put their name in because they can't handle any OTHER job and then announce, "We have a winner!" What's that mean? It's just that you've found the least of the losers. Carry your briefcase. Give me a break! No disrespect to all the GREAT stewards we have on her that have given some great advice to all.

    You've "been up and down this entire state"? There isn't a single division, regional or labor manager that you don't know in CA? Wow! That, to me, is REALLY impressive. I don't think I'd brag about that to ANYONE!

    What the hell does this meandering example you give have anything to do with this? You stand up again and say that YOUR way was the best and this goon didn't take YOUR advice? You could have been his Messiah and because of not listening to YOU he is now dead. YOU AND YOU ALONE? Man, you've got to be a joy to live with.

    You say you're respected? I laughed when I read this post. LAUGHED! You've GOT to be kidding me! You STILL have not answered any of my questions. Now, THAT'S respect! HA! You do this in local/panel/negotiation hearings, you're toast. Move on.

    Did I SAY that I am not committed to anything? DID I SAY THAT? Go back and read, George Reeves. I think I said, I wasn't affiliated with any political party. Does that mean I ain't committed to anything? That I don't stand for anything? You mean I can't vote for whoever I think is the best, no matter WHAT party or affiliation? You mean I absolutely HAVE to vote a slate to mean I stand for anything? You are unreal! Spin this too.

    "Bandwagoners don't impress me". Yeah, me too. Go back and read your post, Al Sharpton, DUDE!

    Peace and the sight of used motor oil as a driveway sealer.
  20. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    First, lets address the issue of the word "snuffer". I see youre not to good with "uptake" and I will have to lower my jokes to 3rd grade level. A snuffer is a term used by police for people who inhale paint fumes in order to get high. The combination of the word OCTANE and SNUFFER (1 + 1) is to mean you are inhaling octane to get high before you post. Its a mechanics joke. You seem to be the only one who didnt get the joke.

    You end your posts with some quip related to motor sports and I started my reply to you with the same.

    Secondly, you posted this:
    "It got to where I could go in before work to talk about problems or after work to do the same, in fact, I think some looked forward to it. But I did so in a spirit of calmness and non-demeaning. I didn't have any problem talking to a Supe, center manager, Division M, Labor M, District M or anybody they could throw in. I picture you going into a meeting with an AK-47. Am I wrong? Prove it."

    I think I proved it. You sitting in a center manager's office breaking bread is nothing compared to sitting in a regional managers office negotiating for a driver who failed to report an accident, was fired, was guilty, but had a family to support and was granted a second chance.

    You asked, I provided. Id say you were owned.

    Lets see, you were in vietnam? Ok, that proves what? You were not smart enough to get out of service like Rush Limbaugh? Sean Hannity? or any other right wing nutcase who preaches on tv or radio about how they love the military?

    I support our military actions that are warranted and vietnam wasnt one of them. Many lives lost, many people who came back with mental and physical handicaps after serving. We spent billions in vietnam and for what? We turned tail and ran. We crashed our economy. Unspeakable things? Ok, thats your nightmare not mine. I am glad I missed that opportunity.

    """What the hell does this meandering example you give have anything to do with this? You stand up again and say that YOUR way was the best and this goon didn't take YOUR advice? You could have been his Messiah and because of not listening to YOU he is now dead. YOU AND YOU ALONE? Man, you've got to be a joy to live with."""

    THATS EXACTLY WHAT IM TELLING YOU. THE DM, LM and the RM would tell you the very same. The guy was one of those you described as walking in with a verbal ak47 to every encounter.

    Once you get to the point where you have the RM involved, its all over. The only way out is a deal.

    This is the funny part of your post "Did I SAY that I am not committed to anything?" You then say ""I think I said, I wasn't affiliated with any political party"" ... that would make you UNCOMMITTED. You blow in the wind with whats popular at the time. Try standing on your own two feet and dont let the wind blow you over.

    Chose a side, make a difference, take a position, stand for something. Until then, your not standing, youre wavering.