Why does UPS hate their employees?

Treegrower

Well-Known Member
Run your route according to where you will take your lunch. If it is at McDonalds or whereever your have a delivery that you may eat at grab your lunch right after you deliver and stop complete.

It is not that difficult to plan where you will be between the 3 and 6 hour. I am sure you drive by several location between that time with a stop next door to it.

If you are driving around town to shop for a place to eat than yes that part is your lunch time....Any business is ran like that, when the lunch bell rings at any place you work you have to be back at your job!

I don't think that is asking for a whole lot to keep your job!

I run the route the exact way it is put in the board. 100% in trace, 100% of the time. When it's time for lunch I pull to where I am going to go. I don't plan my deliveries the company has already done that for me.
 

rod

Retired 22 years
Run your route according to where you will take your lunch. If it is at McDonalds or whereever your have a delivery that you may eat at grab your lunch right after you deliver and stop complete.

It is not that difficult to plan where you will be between the 3 and 6 hour. I am sure you drive by several location between that time with a stop next door to it.

If you are driving around town to shop for a place to eat than yes that part is your lunch time....Any business is ran like that, when the lunch bell rings at any place you work you have to be back at your job!

I don't think that is asking for a whole lot to keep your job!

You do realize not every UPS driver delivers in the "Big City" don't you?
The area I delivered in liked to brag that they only had 1 (yes one) stoplight in the whole county and absolutley no fast food places. Break started when I got to the resturant - not when I finnished delivering at the stop prior to that.:peaceful: P.S. It worked that way even if I had a rider. Break was over when you hit the key again to go.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I run the route the exact way it is put in the board. 100% in trace, 100% of the time. When it's time for lunch I pull to where I am going to go. I don't plan my deliveries the company has already done that for me.

Does the company plan your rest room breaks as well? Yes, you should try to follow trace as much as possible but you should also use common sense and run the area in the most efficient manner possible, which may or may not be trace. Suppose you had a bulk stop that, if you got rid of it, would make the rest of your day much easier, but by doing so you had to break trace. Would you break trace, dump the stop, and go back on trace or would you stay on trace, work around the bulk stop, and struggle through the first part of your day? Trace is a reference and should be followed when possible but things do come up which may make breaking trace a better alternative for you.
 

backinbrown

respect my authority
Does the company plan your rest room breaks as well? Yes, you should try to follow trace as much as possible but you should also use common sense and run the area in the most efficient manner possible, which may or may not be trace. Suppose you had a bulk stop that, if you got rid of it, would make the rest of your day much easier, but by doing so you had to break trace. Would you break trace, dump the stop, and go back on trace or would you stay on trace, work around the bulk stop, and struggle through the first part of your day? Trace is a reference and should be followed when possible but things do come up which may make breaking trace a better alternative for you.

On my run, after lunch my trace has me drive by probly an average of 5 to 8 stops. trace wants me to do them end of day , but im driving by them and they are right hand turns not fighting traffic.

so before lunch i sort my truck and pull those end of day stops to do as i go by them after lunch. then i pretty much go back to trace.

Just one example of coming off trace.
 

backinbrown

respect my authority
reading through the thread I certainly understand many of the posts complaining about how we manage. We micro manage the piss out of our people. And that is something we in management are not immune to. There was a time a division manager had the autonomy to run his division. In todays world I now see district managers micromanaging division managers.

With that said I don't understand the expressions of hate that some have for their management folks. I could not do my job if not for the fact that most of my people understand UPS and the UPS mindset and are generally supportive of what we or I are trying to accomplish. The hate part baffles me. i could not do a job where I have feelings of hate for the job or people.

I think hate is a strong word for management, just like any job not just ups, your going to have the slackers, the gossip, and the battle of management versus hourly.

and just like every job you have very good management, and those few managers who want to make a name for themselves, by micromanaging their employees.

When routes get cut people blame on road sup and the center manager, but some of us do know that every morning the center manager gets the call from district manager telling him or her how many routes are going out that day, i dont think thats the center manager or sups fault.

if you are management or driver or inside ups employee, the bottom line is we all work for the same company.

i certainly understand management is under alot of pressure also, but the way some not all on road sups handle situations with their drivers certainly builds alot of animosity from drivers towards their on road sups and center manager's

I am a strong supporter of teamsters, and i see the contract get broken daily, sup's working, i could go on and on. i dont hate my management but we might have alot better relationship if they would treat us like human biengs, instead of numbers.
 

Treegrower

Well-Known Member
Does the company plan your rest room breaks as well? Yes, you should try to follow trace as much as possible but you should also use common sense and run the area in the most efficient manner possible, which may or may not be trace. Suppose you had a bulk stop that, if you got rid of it, would make the rest of your day much easier, but by doing so you had to break trace. Would you break trace, dump the stop, and go back on trace or would you stay on trace, work around the bulk stop, and struggle through the first part of your day? Trace is a reference and should be followed when possible but things do come up which may make breaking trace a better alternative for you.
Nope, nope and nope. I take my bathroom breaks as I deliver. Been on the same route for many years now. I know where all the restrooms are. I also hydrate myself as I deliver the route. I am not allowed off my route by 1 foot for lunch or anything else. Very strict rules about being off area. Even if "off area" is about 40 feet of asphalte. Fine be that way. If you can't trust my judgement about where to go for lunch, how can you possibly trust me to make the right delivery loop. Nope I do it absolutely the way it is in the board, even if it means tripping over a 6-8 piece sleep number bed all day or a 5 piece overweight/oversize pottery barn. It gets delivered when the stop comes up in the board.
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by satellitedriver
Blaming the company for going to public stock is a weak argument.
I see it as a very valid argument, simply because the company started the micro-managing almost immediately following the event.
They were doing it in 1986, when I came to UPS.

One of the reasons I turned down the offer to go into management.

I never heard some of the crap about "business decissions", " Bottom line", and other buzz words that apply to "taking care of the investors" that we all hear now.
Pray tell, where did you hear these terms expressed in any official form?

I have never heard, or read, any of this kind of talk (besides locker room talk) in my 22 yrs as a driver, much less as a stock owner.
Many who complain do not even own UPS stock.
I stand by this comment.
Expecting the union to solve all ills holds even less weight.
And that's relevant because????
Reference the posts, before my comment.
To me, this is just a whine thread.
As are the majority of the threads on this board.
Agreed.

All employees have a simple choice.
Leave or stay.
Not as simple as one might think, because it is a
Tough choice. ,as you say.
Simple choice,but a tough one to make.


Many, and I mean many, things could be improved to make this company much more profitable, but, simple infighting bitchin' means squat.
There should be a balance between the infighting and fairness to all involved.
Who lied to you and made you think there is fairness in this world?

Reverse the initial hate question,of this thread, and ask yourself a simple question.
"Why do you chose to stay employed at UPS?"

I stay because I'm 58 years old, with a body that has been worn out at UPS, driving worthless trucks many many miles, because at my age it's a little too late to begin a new career. There isn't a place where I could make the kind of money I make with the bennies I receive, where I could possibly get a retirement of any kind. All these benefits are courtesy of the negotiations of the union that represents us, not out of the goodness of our CEO's heart. Through the years I figured I could make it to retirement without much problem, but no, there have been many problems. Right now I have an injury received while preforming a standard work method correctly. Just one more chink in the armor.My center manager (who I like personally) tried his best to get me to say that I "might" have injured myself at home and didn't realize it, just to save another loss time injury on the books. Everyday I hear a sup trying to intimidate some poor rookie, just to get them to deliver a few more packages everyday (in less time). I see drivers leave the building in PCs that should have been scrapped 50,000 miles ago, but UPS has to get their moneys worth, so they are driven till there is nothing left to repair. We have to wear crap uniforms that do not fit correctly, fall apart on the first few times they are worn because they are a couple of bucks cheaper than the previous clothes. Regardless of the great day we had on Monday, if Tuesday isn't so good we get hammered and accused of cheating the company. We have drivers delivering 23 SPORH on a 50% business route and the sups just add more work on the guy.
Ya know they say **** rolls down hill, and it's true. So does negitivity.
An honest answer to my question.




The original question,that was posed, infers that UPS is single monolith that hates it's employees.
We are nothing but a corporate structure comprised of employees.
The, them and us, argument fades when the symbiotic relationship of management to hourly reduces it's premise to base emotions.
The decision to go public was never in the hourlies hands.
So, we can only deal with the aftermath.
I still stand with my original premise.
I have a choice to stay or leave, if I do not like the way I am treated.
We all base our economic needs, wants and hopes on being employed.
 

What'dyabringmetoday???

Well-Known Member
Nope, nope and nope. I take my bathroom breaks as I deliver. Been on the same route for many years now. I know where all the restrooms are. I also hydrate myself as I deliver the route. I am not allowed off my route by 1 foot for lunch or anything else. Very strict rules about being off area. Even if "off area" is about 40 feet of asphalte. Fine be that way. If you can't trust my judgement about where to go for lunch, how can you possibly trust me to make the right delivery loop. Nope I do it absolutely the way it is in the board, even if it means tripping over a 6-8 piece sleep number bed all day or a 5 piece overweight/oversize pottery barn. It gets delivered when the stop comes up in the board.
I believe you and I would get along very well. Pay no attention to Upstate. He obviously longs to be a management person and wished he had invented an internet forum. Guys that talk a good game on here, such as Upstate, are usually the same people that run around like scared chickens at work. By the way, who cares if UPS hates you? As long as the blue and white envelope comes in every week, that is all that should matter. I think we should all be more concerned with our benefits deteriorating in years to come than whether or not UPS likes us.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
Nope, nope and nope. I take my bathroom breaks as I deliver. Been on the same route for many years now. I know where all the restrooms are. I also hydrate myself as I deliver the route. I am not allowed off my route by 1 foot for lunch or anything else. Very strict rules about being off area. Even if "off area" is about 40 feet of asphalte. Fine be that way. If you can't trust my judgement about where to go for lunch, how can you possibly trust me to make the right delivery loop. Nope I do it absolutely the way it is in the board, even if it means tripping over a 6-8 piece sleep number bed all day or a 5 piece overweight/oversize pottery barn. It gets delivered when the stop comes up in the board.

You sir, are the Colonel Kurtz of package car drivers. To quote Kurtz:

And I thought: My God … the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure.

I have to admire someone that has the complete will to make the company live by the system they have created, 100% of the time. Amazing.

If the army had 10 divisions of men like you our problems in Afghanistan would be over very quickly.

(ok, I am done now with the Apocalypse Now references :happy2:).
 

BigBrownSanta

Well-Known Member
Well, in essence, isn't that what EDD is all about? It's basically a series of instructions to work as directed.

If they want you to deliver to stop 1, then drive ten miles to stop 2, then return to stop 1 and deliver next door to stop 3, why argue?

If they didn't want you to do it that way, then they would've set it up more efficiently.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
UPS does not hate anybody as satellitedriver put it in the last paragraph above. There are those people at all levels that take out their frustration of micromanagement out on anyone or anything they can!

Even non-management get caught up in this. They may take it out on the package car or the customer who gets in their face or maybe the wife/husband and kids or maybe the dog!

Recognize it for what it is. A terrible and uncalled for reaction to being forced to do something you don't want to do.


What people hate is ... being micromanaged! They lose sight of basic respect for each other.


This was by far always the time of year I hated most when I was working. During Peak, especially the last 2 weeks, the strangle hold of micro-management is loosened just a little so that everyone can breath. As soon as the new year starts, usually the 2nd week, the strangle hold comes back to an even greater degree than before Peak.

This cycle took place every one of my 36 years years. Nothing has changed!

Recognize it and you can understand how to deal with it.


As trplnkl's tagline states "Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!"


And for those of you who think the grass is greener elsewhere .... LOL!
 

Treegrower

Well-Known Member
You sir, are the Colonel Kurtz of package car drivers. To quote Kurtz:



I have to admire someone that has the complete will to make the company live by the system they have created, 100% of the time. Amazing.

If the army had 10 divisions of men like you our problems in Afghanistan would be over very quickly.
O.K. Sometimes it drops to 95% or 93% in trace, but 100% is the goal every single day. And it is hard work, but by giving a single % point ,Mgt. would take a mile. It is incrdedible hard to do day after day. Try it sometime, especially on days when you know you could get done quicker. Choosing the harder right instead of the easier wrong. When I have a supe with me or getting a harrasement OJS they complain all day long about the trace, but guess what? Not one supe or center manager will sit down and change the delivery loop or the EDD/PAS. They want me to do it (off the clock at home) or just ignore the DOL and "turn the numbers/give 'em numbers" Like I said it's incredibly hard to do day after day and it does wear on you, but it has also saved me more than a few times when I have gotten a wacky split with commercial stops on it ( way off my area)- churches, schools, city offices ect. that were closed when I got there at 6pm. When they tried to terminate me for missed deliveries the B.A. asked for and receivced the daily report with my % in trace and beacuse the split was put in/loaded last and put in the board last it saved me. A few times. Because I was in trace 100% or extermely close to it day after day after day after week ect, it was deemed a dispatch failure and not a driver error. But you can't pick and choose, what saved me was the fact that I do 100 % everyday. After the hearing, we were out in the hallway and the District Labor mgr walked by, then turned around and came back and told me that ( off the record) "that is amazing, perfect trace, amazing" he said as he walked away shaking his head.
I wish that it wasn't that way, but the enviroment calls for it. The constant non stop production harrasment is what has lead to this behavior. It's my only defense. That and also trying to be a "perfect" methods driver. Doing everything by the book. Using their own rules and regs agaisnt them. Just this last fall the center manager came out for a friendly ride ride with me. the next morning he asked to meet me for lunch. At lunch, which was cordial, he asked, "O.K. point well taken, now what can we do to get you in earlier?" We went over a list of suggestions, none of which were implemented and now we are right back at square one. And with the new year came a new round of production harrasement. Ssighhhh ! I don't know if it is an iron will, but it is what shields me in the long run. I really wish it didn't have to be this way, but it is and that's how I deal with it.
(ok, I am done now with the Apocalypse Now references :happy2:).
 
I'm guessing your kidding. Running off trace is a no-no. But I've finally got a retirement route in the country. Unless I plan on eating a cow or dog, your idea won't work for me.
 
Run your route according to where you will take your lunch. If it is at McDonalds or whereever your have a delivery that you may eat at grab your lunch right after you deliver and stop complete.

It is not that difficult to plan where you will be between the 3 and 6 hour. I am sure you drive by several location between that time with a stop next door to it.

If you are driving around town to shop for a place to eat than yes that part is your lunch time....Any business is ran like that, when the lunch bell rings at any place you work you have to be back at your job!

I don't think that is asking for a whole lot to keep your job!
 

Treegrower

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing your kidding. Running off trace is a no-no. But I've finally got a retirement route in the country. Unless I plan on eating a cow or dog, your idea won't work for me.


I can only wish I was kidding. You can't make stuff like this up. Falls under the heading of - 'truth is stranger than fiction.'
Every center is different and every route is different and every geographical area is different. For you it may not work or be an option, but where I am it is so I use it.
Where I am,working off of trace is not a no-no. As a matter of fact a couple of 3 years aga or so when PAS/EDD was implemented, trace was DEMANDED of us, no if ands or buts. Of course it turned out to be a colossal " CF" but I stuck with using Mgts. trace and that puts us where we are today.
The rootcause of all this is the fact that I am absolutely, posistively forbidden to go off area for lunch or anyother reason. My route is divided by a main street. Me on the south side of the road my loop partner to the north. All the fast food chain stores and grocery store, deli market and diner is on the north side. No kidding. Well because of production harrasement I am forbidden to drive across the street for lunch. It is off area. Even though off area is only about 40 feet of asphalt. I could park on the south side, secure my vehicle leave my diad in the truck and walk across the street for lunch, but that would defeat the purpose. If I can't be trusted to make the right decision about where to go for lunch, how can I possibly make the right decision about running the route? The way it is in the board is the way it gets done. All day,everyday.
 

Treegrower

Well-Known Member
In my limited experience(20 years, 4 buildings, 2 districts) UPS only hates the employees that hate them.


27 years, 2 buidings, same district. I don't post often, but in the 2 or 3 posts on this thread did I ever say I hated UPS or UPS mgt? Did I ever call my mgt team names or demean them in anyway? Hate is very powerful and I don't live my life that way. In my view, working at UPS is kinda like have a long term chronic illness, it does no good to curse the illness and hate the illness, this is the condition, the best I can do is manage the illness to the best of my ability. No sir, I do not hate UPS. Nor do I believe that they hate me. They may hate the fact that I can't be cowed or run roughshod over but I do not believe that they hate me. They provide me and my family with an excellent standard of living. If I really sucked that badly and if the really hated me I would have been fired long ago. But as it is, after 27, almost 28 years and nearly a 1/4 of a century of FULL-TIME package car driving I must be doing something right, or at the very least I must not suck that badly. So UpStateNY I guess you are right "we do have a winner."
 
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