22.3 Facts/Origins

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Fredless, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    As contract time gets closer, I am working on gathering facts and information about the 22.3 job classifications. At my hub, there is a huge untapped resource that I think can really get us back on track and that is part timers! The problem, at least in my reload- there is only steward and he is part time. So it would be hard for him to do all the leg work of getting something like I am about to say through. He recently came bitching to me that a driver who had only been driving for 4 months, just qualified, took a 22.3 job. The driver has been with UPS for about 2 years total (its easy to get a FT driving job here, the growth rate that my hub services is exploding) - the p/t reload steward has been a shifter for 10 years now. He thought a 22.3 would be a way to get a full time job without having to be a driver first.

    There are a lot of part timers that feel the same as him. I kind of do, I have been a cover driver and I know what the drivers go through...I really do not want to spend my career at UPS deciding wether I'm going to miss packages or take a piss (exaggerating) or getting in and out of a truck 180+ times a day. However, I DO see the side of the drivers - the 22.3's are a faster way for you guys that have been beaten for years.

    At my hub, I notice all of the senior drivers always passing up the 22.3's that do come up few and far between. Usually comes down to the new guys (sometimes young kids like me 21-23 age) that take these 22.3 jobs and piss off the part timers that have been around forever. Probably because they aren't taking a pay cut at all, no familes to support nor have they reached the top out rate yet. The senior guys seem to not take the jobs because they can't afford to take it.

    Is there a way that we could introduce a ratio system like management has for getting into driving (isn't it like 6 to 1)?
    For example, for every 6 full time drivers that turn down a 22.3 job, ask 1 part timer? If the part timer passes it on, ask the next in line 6 full timers?

    Meaning, at least give the part timers a SHOT in the dark at it. I think asking 6 full timers in seniority order always gives the guys who have been driving for 20+ years a chance to get out. I know its scraps, but its better than nothing! I despise the separation of the full timers and the pedestal management puts them on at my hub!

    What are you thoughts? How could I go about starting this? Petition or would it just be worthless to even try?
  2. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    I have a problem being a 22.3 full timer. How come I don't make the same rate as a "TRUE" full timer??? And i'm sure people will respond by telling me I didn't have to take the job...I've heard that already folks....I have even had a high management person tell me it's only a difference of like 5000 dollars after taxes, I should have told him if it's "ONLY" that small of a difference then you can make up the difference out of your own pockets...
  3. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    Why would a full time driver be offered a 22.3 job??? those jobs were created for part-timers.. what section of the country are you in?? and where did you get your contract from???
  4. derf3733

    derf3733 Member

    Read your contract ANY AND ALL fulltime work will be offered to Full Time employees first based on seniority. 22.3 jobs were not created for part timers. They we created to make more fulltime jobs, if a FT takes a 22.3 job then that opens up his job. Somewhere down the bidding line a PT gets a FT job and that is what the 22.3 jobs were created for.
  5. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    Maybe in your neck of the woods, here in New York it's different, like a full-time clerk cannot bid on a driver position, it's usually the opposite. Also, every opening for a 22.3 job when it was posted was applied for by part-timers, and ONLY part-timers. We must have different contracts. Hey listen, I am not fighting with you on this but I just don't understand your contract where you are...
  6. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    In Ohio the 22.3 were defined by the need of double shifting in the hub. Jobs were analyzed and positions created and posted. The majority of the 22.3 were part timers who opted for full time positions, on back to back shifts, with different job responsiblities. Lots of p/t air and hub work the second half. I think the only time a feeder or package car driver took the job, was due to layoffs. And those were quite rare, with seasonals for summer vacations and peak season.
  7. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    Yes, you are so correct, same here in New York. I can't see why on earth a driver would want a 22.3 job, unless like you said he was laid off. My understanding was only part-timers could bid on 22.3 jobs..
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  8. derf3733

    derf3733 Member

    Same thing here a lot of our first round of bidding went to PT guys but after the drivers saw exaclty what jobs were created during the second round a lot of Ft driver bid on those jobs.. We have a lot of Preload/Porter and Preload/Air Driver these jobe were taking be Ft with 20yrs + on the job. They have gotten tired of being beat down by getting on and off the truck all those years. I am pretty sure the FT language in the Contract is part of the MAster and not a local supplement. If you of you clerks wants to bid on a job he should file.
  9. opie

    opie Member

    Last summer my hub has several dozen of these 22.3 jobs open up. There were inside/inside or outside/inside. All the inside/inside jobs were all taken. But they still have some outside/inside jobs available. These are good jobs that pay well. Most of the P/T senority employees took the combo jobs. Except for me because I don't have enough senority, but I am close.
  10. canon

    canon Member

    Full-timers bid on 22.3 in my building too. Some people get tired of the overtime and want to come off road. It's a lower pay, I've been told because essentially you receive the rate you'd be at if you had stayed part time instead of going into driving. That's how it worked when i had an inside/outside 22.3 job.
    While it deals with creating full time positions, it doesn't say they HAVE to be only filled by part-timers. When a full timer takes a 22.3 job, it leaves a vacancy for another part-timer to move into full-time driving, thus fulfilling the contract obligations. A utility driver bids on the vacancy, UPS still needs the utility driver so they post a bid for a part timer to go to driver training school. The part timer actually lands in a driving position rather than just a 22.3 at lower pay. Maybe it's different according to different riders and supplements.

    derf3733 was right about full timers being able to bid on full time positions. Now I can't bid on a feeder route, because i'm not feeder qualified. I can, however, bid on openings to go to feeder school. A full time clerk can't bid on a driving route unless they've been to driver school. At least that's how it works at my building.
  11. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    Well if I lived in New York or Ohio I wouldn't even have posted this because the drivers in those states obviously can not bid on them there. I am in Florida.

    This is how 22.3 jobs get filled in my hub:
    1)They are first offered to the current 22.3's by class seniority, so if all of the current 22.3's pass on a new 22.3 job it is then sent to:
    2)The full time drivers - if every one of them passes on a 22.3 job (that has qualified as a driver obviously) they are then sent down to the part timers. I have seen this only happen once or twice.

    You guys saying its a huge paycheck or a why would a driver want to step down - money isn't EVERYTHING to all of us. I would GLADLY take a paycut and re-work my lifestyle to be with my family more often and not have the physical stresses of a driver.

    So what I've learned so far is that 22.3's aren't fair across the nationwide contract.
  12. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    In Ohio all jobs 22.3 jobs created were reviewed with the union, regarding the positions and postings. The union would actually audit the bid sheets along with management and assign the jobs in a fair manner. Different locals, different rules?
    There can be local addendums to the contract, although much consideration is given by the company and union. Once a local practice is established and prior precedent is made, it is very difficult for both the company and union to change in the future. With business and labor climates changing, it would be in the interest of both parties to adhere to the national and supplemental contracts.
  13. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    In my building you work 10, 15, 20, years as a driver and then go into return clerk, I have never ever heard of a clerk going into a driver position. Things sure are different around the country. there are other ways of being a return clerk, anybody (full-timer) could put their name on the bid sheet, but it usually goes to a driver.
  14. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    Porter jobs in my building usually go to the drivers who are "beat-up" that is, bad backs, etc...
  15. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    Can any of you guys with the language in your supplements that gives 22.3's to part timers over full timers post a scan or give me a way I can get a copy of them?

    I am asking around my hub for people interested in going to a union meeting, signing a petition to get the southern region changed to where partimers actually have a shot at these jobs.

    I'd like to use your current contract language as some sort of leverage to stand on besides just gripe.
  16. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    There is ONE full time clerk in my hub and he works preload. Every other clerk (weight adjustment, FCC, customer counter, PAS clerk, and reload ECS clerk) are all part timers.

    At my hub, part time seniority is part time seniority. I just turned down a full time driver posistion back in September. If a full time driver wants out of the truck, he has to bid into a 22.3 or feeder posistion. They can never go back down to part time once they qualify UNLESS a layoff occurs.
  17. jware

    jware New Member

    I was a 22.3 employee around six years before I went driving last October. The way I understand it is that only part-timers can bid on "new" 22.3 jobs that go up for bid. any job that has been bid once and awarded is then open to all employees with seniority.
  18. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    Any of you that have suppliments, to the guys in Ohio and New York that allow part timers to bid on the NEW 22.3 jobs can you please PM me, anybody. There are whispers I am hearing in my hub now that the southern region does things much differently by basically making it impossible for part timers to get those jobs!
  19. browned out

    browned out Active Member

    In our center full timers can bid on the 22.3 jobs and receive priority regardless of seniority as opposed to part timers. The part timers can go into driving like the rest of us and then bid on the 22.3 jobs. If a full timer takes a 22.3 position it opens up another driver position that a part timer can take.
  20. Fredless

    Fredless APWA Hater

    What IF the part timer has a bad knee, or asthma something that physically hinders him or her from full time driving?
    What IF the part timer can load a trailer just fine, preload etc..but she is too short to be a full time driver?
    What about the older women who are clerks etc..that would love a combo job but they physically cannot be a driver?
    What about the people that have had DUI's or speeding tickets in the past and they can't be a driver?

    Just because of those reasons, and they aren't "tough enough" or they've made mistakes in the past, they should be banned from EVER holding a full time job at UPS? Is that what you're saying?