Business and 21st Century: UNION not needed

[MD Dan]

If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.

Would it be better if you made less money and had fewer benefits and if you had a disagreement with a particular manager he could just fire you with impunity?

 

[Dragon]

So Jimstud you think we should get rid of management......you don't think the drivers could do it by themselves do you? Lets see if you (the driver) can do the following, while all of you are on road of coarse....

1. Plan how many packages are scheduled to come in the next day
2. Make a plan on how many drivers to use, because believe it or not throwing 3 or 4 extra drivers on road doesn't make you any money
3. How many vehicles to use and what type
4. Where will you park all the vehicles
5. Who and how many people are going to park the vehicles
6. Who and how many people are going to unload the vehicles
7. Who and how many people are going to load vehicles
8. Answer the phones in your center, since you are on road
9. Go out and make sales calls
10. Make sure all your vehicles are repaired
11. Decide how many planes we will need for the day
12. How will we repair the airplanes and when
13. Make sure time cards are correct and payroll is submitted daily
14. Plus about 1000 and 1 things I didn't mention that we do
14. and last but not least MAKE SURE THE COMPANY IS MAKING MONEY!! So you can come back the next day and have a job.

You probably "think" drivers could do these things (not saying they are not competent because they are) but you CANNOT because you are delivering all day.

So get over your beef with management, just like I need drivers to deliver packages you need management to do all the things listed above.

Okay, I am stepping down now........

 

[tieguy]

I've never been a big supporter of unions myself, but when I'm 60 and my center manager wants to know why I'm slower than the 25 year old guys, I'll be very glad I'm in a union.

you realize they probably ask the same stupid questions at a non-union company.

You can make a good arguement for a union. And you may be right. It would certainly seem to help wages and beni's to have the power of collective bargaining.

At the same time you have fdx out there who does pretty well without a union negotiating for them.

 

[MrFedEx]

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

What he said. Fred took 100 miles, and UPS would do the same.

 

[tieguy]

If people werent lazy and did the job to the best of there ability at all times there would be no reason for management threats. Union simply protects the lazy and underqualified and holds the company back. I am in the union and dont like it.

In fact if people came in and did the job they would eliminate many management jobs.

 

[tieguy]

Then why dont you go into management? Or take a job with a non-union company?

good question. I have heard two answers on this one.

answer one too much bs with the management job.

answer two was after seeing what their coworkers try to pull they feel they would try to fire too many people if they became management.

 

[jimstud]

So Jimstud you think we should get rid of management......you don't think the drivers could do it by themselves do you? Lets see if you (the driver) can do the following, while all of you are on road of coarse....

1. Plan how many packages are scheduled to come in the next day
2. Make a plan on how many drivers to use, because believe it or not throwing 3 or 4 extra drivers on road doesn't make you any money
3. How many vehicles to use and what type
4. Where will you park all the vehicles
5. Who and how many people are going to park the vehicles
6. Who and how many people are going to unload the vehicles
7. Who and how many people are going to load vehicles
8. Answer the phones in your center, since you are on road
9. Go out and make sales calls
10. Make sure all your vehicles are repaired
11. Decide how many planes we will need for the day
12. How will we repair the airplanes and when
13. Make sure time cards are correct and payroll is submitted daily
14. Plus about 1000 and 1 things I didn't mention that we do
14. and last but not least MAKE SURE THE COMPANY IS MAKING MONEY!! So you can come back the next day and have a job.

You probably "think" drivers could do these things (not saying they are not competent because they are) but you CANNOT because you are delivering all day.

So get over your beef with management, just like I need drivers to deliver packages you need management to do all the things listed above.

Okay, I am stepping down now........

all valid points if they actually did their jobs.1they have no clue how many pkgs. are comming in they tell us that all the time.2make a plan they have no plan.i could answer everyone of your points but to no use. supervisors are like mosquitos, blood sucking inscets who the longer they are a supervisor the more blood they suck and the bigger their butt gets.

 

[tieguy]

Sober said that without a union, management's definition of a "terrible employee" would be just about anyone who was full-scale, or who ever had an inury, or who ever refused to work unsafely or off of the clock.

I was only half joking when I suggested that that's pretty much their definition anyway. We've got a pretty strong local in these parts.

we fire more people now because of the union and its grievance process. If we did not have a union and risked a lawsuit with every termination then we would fire a lot less people. thank your union the next time you get fired for getting you fired.

 

[MD Dan]

you realize they probably ask the same stupid questions at a non-union company.

You can make a good arguement for a union. And you may be right. It would certainly seem to help wages and beni's to have the power of collective bargaining.

At the same time you have fdx out there who does pretty well without a union negotiating for them.

The thing about FedEX is that they sort of DO have a union negotiating for them. It is my firm opinion that FedEx drivers are treated as well as they are to keep the Teamsters out of the tent. If UPS drivers did not make the wages and benefits that we do there is no reason to think that FedEx drivers would make the wages and bennies they do. The IBT is the stick that makes FedEX pay their people even though they are not actually members.

 

[Catatonic]

we fire more people now because of the union and its grievance process. If we did not have a union and risked a lawsuit with every termination then we would fire a lot less people. thank your union the next time you get fired for getting you fired.

I agree ... as I said in my earlier post #34 ... it's much easier to fire a union employee than a non-union employee.

 

[Red Dawn]

I've never been a huge fan of unions. I only think that they are necessary in certain environments. UPS is definitely one of them. Last I heard only 12% of the US workforce is unionized. I found it hard to believe and that number may be way off. Regardless......if the union were to ever go away at UPS it would be a living nightmare to work for them. There are lots of jobs out their that don't need unions and some jobs that should be protected from unionizing. The military and certain civilian jobs that work with the military are perfect examples of that. It's actually in the UCMJ (The military's version of The Constitution). UPS definitely needs the Teamsters. Does Wal-mart, McDonalds, or whoever need a union? Not necessarily.

 

[Mike23]

Now is the time we need the union more then ever. My brother in law wasn't union. He waited to cross the US border for 4 hours and was on road for 22 hours. He FINALLY got home to my sis and was told they needed him to go back out. He said he couldn't legally do that. They told him he would or they'd terminate him so he quit. A few months later my sis found him hung behind the 2nd bedroom door. UPS would work their employees into the ground even more without a union to back us. At least with a union you can grieve it later if they terminate you and likely get your job back. With no union, sorry, you're working at McDonalds from now on.

 

[brown138]

What about the hours that we would be working. Most days it's around 10 already. Without the 9.5 language it would be 12hrs everyday. No Union... NO WAY... They already treat us like garbage. They don't honor the contract they already agreed to. Imagine what it would be like without a union.

 

[soberups]

we fire more people now because of the union and its grievance process. If we did not have a union and risked a lawsuit with every termination then we would fire a lot less people. thank your union the next time you get fired for getting you fired.

You dont have to terminate someone to get rid of them...without seniority, 8 hr gurantee or bidding rights you could simply lay them off, starve them for hours or put them on the worst route in the building until they were crippled and no longer able to work.

As far as lawsuits go...who really has more power, the company or a terminated employee who isnt getting a paycheck and who must pay for an attorney out of his own pocket?

And when you say you "fire" more people due to the union, the important number is not how many are "fired", but how many of those terminations are actually upheld.

With no union, fired means fired.

 

[MrFedEx]

I agree ... as I said in my earlier post #34 ... it's much easier to fire a union employee than a non-union employee.

Not true.

 

[wisedragonfly]

If you want to know what UPS would be like to work for without union representation, just look at the way that the lower and mid-level management people are treated. They took a pay freeze, a benefit cut, and loss of 401K match; meanwhile, CEO Scott Davis writes himself a $5 million dollar per year pay increase.

Sober, Are you saying that 401K match is still in place for the union employee's?

 

[soberups]

Sober, Are you saying that 401K match is still in place for the union employee's?

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a 401K match for union employees, this was a management benefit that just got cut.

 

[strohl420]

I am a Truckload Driver, and thought when i was hired that we were union but found out that we are not. I get paid a lot less and work a very hard schedule plus pay a lot more for benefits than the union worker. so if you think that these unions don't do anything for us. go work for ups truckload and you will see the difference in what your union dues do for you.

 

[konsole]

While we're at it. Why don't we get rid of all of the women, and anyone with any type of disability. Oh heck, if your not 6', blonde hair, and blue eyes you need not apply.

Even though it won't ever happen, I think ideally its only right to show some descrimination when it comes to what people are capable of doing and what jobs need to be filled. UPS shouldn't be forced to higher any US citizen simply because they applied for a job and there are job openings. No I wouldn't say men only or only 6 feet or taller people, but I would say weight and overall health are 2 factors to be considered. I would not trust hiring a preloader thats 100 lbs overweight and is obviously extremely unathletic, doing the hardest pull in the building. Shouldn't the company be able to say "ok look were sorry but your not going to be phyiscally able to do this job"?

 

[Brown287]

I think that the real problem is that some see this as some sort of war being waged between hourly and salary. Give me a break, the best thing we can do is work togethor for a common goal. The company not the union is on the hook if they are not profitable. We all cant make 40 dollars an hour, and in this economic environment we as a company need to be flexible if it means the survivability of UPS. For starters the next contract maybe the union should recognize that the driver in Montana may not need the same compensation as the driver in New York. The union could actually be proactive in identifying areas in the contract that could save UPS money. Remember where UPS goes the teamsters are going to follow.