Getting Away With Murder?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Hoaxster, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    18 year old Gunned Down in Family home by police

    ... two officers jumped on top of the 5ft 3 100 lb Vidal to restrain him. As Vidal's Father tried to step in and grab the screw driver The Southport Police Officer that had instructed the other officers to use their tasers, moved between the father and the pile of people on the floor and said " We don't have time for this" And shot Vidal Once in the chest as the other two Officers held him on the floor.

    http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1072965?ref=feeds/latest
     
  2. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    That CNN story is emotionally charged and all from the side of the family and hardly impartial. It is tragic but I would want to know details before I could call it murder. Even from the CNN story the facts don't support their claim of murder.
    CNN PRODUCER NOTE This iReport has not been verified by CNN, but we're looking into it. If you have additional info, share it in the comments below or upload your story. Stay tuned for updates.
     
  3. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    It seems implausible that three police officers could not restrain a 90 - 100 pound person and had to shoot him.
    One wonders at the level of training and demonstrated capability these officers had.
    Certainly some questions as to what actually happened but 3 officers and one 100 pound kid! Really?
     
  4. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    The parents called the cops because they couldn't control their kid. I agree 3 cops should have been able to control him but again, exactly what happened is still not clear. Just the claims by the father who is emotionally upset and may not be accurate. There definitely needs to be an investigation but people need to wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions.
     
  5. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    BORING story.

    A med'ed out kid with a major pyschiatic disorder can be the same as a drug addict on pcp when fighting. Was he a kid ? sure, was he capable of controlling himself? NO.

    Were his parents capable of controlling him? NO, Were drugs capable of controlling him? NO.

    That bullet seemed to do the trick.

    Case closed.

    TOS.
     
  6. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    I read the above with some fascination. I kept thinking about the difference between Keith Vidal and Trayvon Martin.

    Continuing,

    For Police, Murder is a Time Saving Device
     
  7. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    One has to wonder what was the point of shooting him when you had three officers with tasers versus a 100 lb. kid. The comment of "We don't have time for this" and shooting him doesn't make sense because any officer will tell you the paperwork necessary for explaining a police shooting is very cumbersome and time consuming so the time they saved with the struggle by killing this kid was going to be used up, and then some by having to explain why they felt their lives were in danger enough to justify lethal force. At best some very bad judgement was used by the police officers present, and at worst you have a rogue officer who sees his job as one to use lethal force whenever a little resistance in encountered in arresting someone. I hope the truth reveals itself and justice is served.
     
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  8. oldngray

    oldngray nowhere special

    I agree the comment of "We don't have time for this" doesn't make sense. The person claiming a cop said that was the father so possibly he exaggerated what happened or it may have been a rogue cop. Either way it does need to be investigated. And since it was a white family the silence is deafening from people like Sharpton and Jackson who who would have jumped in immediately screaming racism if the victim had been black.
     
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  9. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    I never thought of their race but a good point.

    I'm surprised there has not been more press ... that makes one wonder.
     
  10. brett636

    brett636 Well-Known Member

    I see it as being deeper than a race issue. If a person representing the government kills someone then its perfectly ok in most situations, but if its a private citizen protecting themselves then it requires the highest level of scrutiny imaginable. We see this attitude on display here in this very thread as those who were touting the race angle in the Zimmerman thread are now supporting the police actions here despite the facts. The race issue was just made up by the media trying to get more attention to an otherwise mundane story.
     
  11. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    It does make TOS's position (out of sync with his usual positions) seem more logical now.

    It was the happiest post I have seen from him in a while.
     
  12. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    That is what I found fascinating in TOS reply. With Trayvon, the kid was defended but with Keith Vidal the kid was not defended. In the first cause the shooter was evil and in the 2nd cause the shooter is defended. In the case of Trayvon and Vidal, were they trying to defend themselves in what they perceived were threats? Same question can be asked in the position of Zimmerman and the unidentified cop who shot Vidal.

    This isn't going to be popular what I am about to say but I'm going to say it anyway or ask it.

    When it comes to the right of self defense, which I think is a paramount right, at what point is it justified to kill a cop as an act of self defense? I ask this question because if you remove the costume and badge from the scene, said person taking a life would be seen as immoral and thus a violent response in defense justified. If the claims of the cop's action are true, would you find the father guilty if he pulled out a gun and put the cop's brains on the wall had the cop not been one to begin with? A robbing crew of thugs on a home invasion spree? What about now that he is a cop under the cloak of costumer and badge? I would find him not guilty in either case and never bat an eye about it.

    Does the introduction of authority negate all moral laws, these being the foundations of unalienable rights, and thus those in gov't now have special rights that the "consent of the govern" never held and thus were unable to delegate under a social contract in the first place? If the "consent of the govern" hold no special rights and thus can't delegate them to begin with, where do they come from? If we can't steal from another person, how do we delegate that power to a 3rd party and that action thus is justified if not seen as moral? Where do we get such notions of 3rd party privilege and empowerment?

    Before you kneejerk react to the suggestion of killing a cop in a self defense action, think much deeper into this that goes way far beyond the average cop to begin with. The question should be as to just what authority those in power really do have. This is a thought exercise and not a call to some kind of action against cops. One can argue they are victims of the system as much as we are.

    I do agree with Vidal's mother on one point, never call 9/11 and more and more people are coming to this conclusion often the hard way.
     
  13. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt You can call me Chappy Staff Member

    I find it hard to argue with any of your points.

    There is no greater threat to our liberty than the police state and manipulation of that police state by politicians to further the politicians goals and desire for power. Upper police management are typically politicians trying to get elected and increase their public profile to get elected to higher power offices.

    The police industry has become an entrenched part of the American society with no real questioning of the need or the extent of power.
    I only call police as a last resort as:
    - they do nothing to prevent criminal actions.
    - their first suspect is the person that called
    - they are basically lazy and overloaded and therefore choose the first solution
    - they are basically bureaucrats following rules and procedures

    Rant over ... for now.
     
  14. rod

    rod retired and happy

    The Township park that I maintain has been vandalized on too many occasions. I quit calling law enforcement after realizing they were more interested in my background (even wanting to know my birthday) than investigating the crime. About the only thing they are good for around here is pulling you over because you have an imaginary license plate light out.
     
  15. tonyexpress

    tonyexpress Whac-A-Troll Patrol Staff Member

    Big news out here in California yesterday...

    Baca announced Tuesday he will step down at the end of the month. The move comes amid several scandals in the Sheriff's Department and an ongoing federal investigation into deputy abuse in the jails.

    More recently, The Times also reported that the department had hired dozens of officers in 2010 despite background investigations that found they had committed significant misconduct.

    This guy was in charge of the largest Sheriff's Department in the nation.

    Sheriff Lee Baca's retirement: 'Very shocking and very surprising'
     
  16. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    More from WeAreChange
     
  17. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member